AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am thinking about a projector for HDTV and I would like some opinions (I know there are alot of postings on this subject, but I would like to hear more).


The projector will only be used for 16:9 material.


Either 1080i HDTV from a HiPix card (main use)

or some anamorphic DVDs coming from a Radeon / PowerDVD combo.


I guess the situation I have in mind would be like so:


* smallish, darkened room (dark walls, dark ceiling, controlled lighting).

* audience of 2-4 people about 8 feet from the screen.

* Never forced to compete with daylight or bright room lighting.

* Want RGB input capability (so Radeon can drive it).

* Want a "3 chip" or "3 panel" system to avoid color wheel/rainbow issues.

* Want something to avoid "screen door" (will 11HT have staggered pixels? dILA would be fine because of good coverage area).

* Want to avoid CRT because of calibration, burn-in and flicker (60hz HDTV refresh) issues.


Overall cost will be a consideration, but bulb life/cost is not a main factor as it will not be used heavily.


Any ideas/suggestions?


(I wish 1920x1080 dILA was here now and cheap!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
If you can afford it, get a D-ILA.




------------------

Irv Kelman

We are THX Certified.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,358 Posts
How much are the Panamorph or ISCO lenses?


If you would mind, how do the lenses actually benefit the picture (as opposed to watching the movie with a proper screen aspect ratio sans the lens)?

Thanks


JEff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,075 Posts
The main thing they do for a 4:3 projector is to enable you to use all the pixels when watching 16:9 material. This results in a more detailed, brighter picture. It also makes the "black bars" really black because there are no pixels emitting any light in those zones.


Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,358 Posts
Sounds like a necessary piece of equipment.


What do these babies run?


Thanks Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,525 Posts
Jeff,


If 1080i HDTV from a HiPix card will be one of your your main uses, you should check out a G15. It does magical things with a 1080i feed (side note: What happened to the thread about how 92% of a 1080i feed is rendered by D-ILA panels with an engineering feat using a progressive/interlaced pixel dance...it doesn't even appear to be in the archives anymore!).


As mentioned above, the G15 will cost more than an 11HT, no doubt about it, but you may feel that the extra cost is worth it for the extra performance.


If you are 8 feet from the screen, you need to be careful of the screen door from LCD projectors as well.


By the way, if you want a "3 chip" or "3 panel" system, a G15 will actually be one of your least expensive choices (on the new market, anyway), with the 3 chip DLPs coming in at about 3 times the cost of D-ILA (but looking great as well).


If the bulb cost isn't a factor for you, you can't beat the picture from a calibrated D-ILA and a Radeon card or 1080i feed.


Just my $0.02.


Mark


[Disclaimer: I have Authored some projector oriented software titles, one of which is targetted at D-ILA projectors.]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,160 Posts
PVR,


You mentioned everything except for the planned size of your screen.


The comment "audience of 2-4 people about 8 feet from the screen" would rule out the 11HT for me. It looks great on a 96" 16:9 screen from 12' away, but there is visible pixel gap closer than 10' away.


Otherwise, the 11HT is cheaper to buy with less expensive/longer life bulbs, and quieter. It is a really nice projector, and great for a plug-and-play HT.


I picked a G15, and have an ISCO 16:9 lens (this was pre-Panamorph), and I have a Whisperflow hushbox and Stewart Grayhawk screen. (I also have a Radeon HTPC and HiPix card).


My choices reflect what I think that best available HT combination is today, but different needs/budget would open up to other models as well.


The anamorphic lens is not "necessary" as the unaided G11/G15 has the same 1365 X 768 16:9 resolution as the native 16:9 LCD paneled FPTVs for 16:9 material, but the lens supports the full 1365 X 1024 panel resolution of the D-ILA which does make the picture visibly brighter and reduces pixel gap even more for closer viewing (my closest seating is 8' away from a 180" screen).


-Dean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,767 Posts
As one who tried the other options before succumbing to the G-15 DILA, I would say: Save yourself a lot of hassle and get the G-15. The picture is great, and the screen door is virtually non-existent except at ridiculously close distances. If you are only 8' away at viewing distance, your screen size with an LCD would have to be no more than 5 to 6 feet wide not to see pixels. At that point, you might as well get an RPTV. Go for the bigger screen and the DILA and you won't regret it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,735 Posts
Mark,

the D-ILA hybrid progressive-interlaced is here


You'll notice that Mark F. redid the explanation after the original thread expired, but before the archives took place.

I have updated most of the FAQ, tracking the threads into the archives on three dates since april of 2001. A bit of PITA, but ready to rock now.


PVR,

If you are going to use are going to be one screen width away, go with the D-ILA. Heck, save yourself a boat load a money and buy the calibrated one in the classified section of the forum from videohot. I have a calibrated G1000 projecting onto a 107 inch wide screen, that has never disappointed me (I do have good control of ambient light). Add a panamorph or iscoII and you will be in a digital projector heaven.



------------------

STOP HDCP on DVI

Don O


[This message has been edited by Don O'Brien (edited 08-05-2001).]
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all the feedback guys.


I think I am basically sold on dILA, so I need to decide

which one.


Since I will have a small, dark room would I be satisified

with a G10, or do I really need the light output of the G15?


Maybe a G15 on a small screen up close will be really juicy with all the brightness, or maybe it will actually be too bright to watch easily?


Also, are the electronics in the various dILA projectors basically the same?


If I bought an older G10 unit could it have a worse quality HDTV scaler than one of the most recently produced versions?


Also when a unit is "Calibrated" what does that mean?

I would assume that the factory ships them well adjusted,

but perhaps it means that they have been "tweaked" for video

rather than PC graphics?


Maybe someone can point me to a "what to look for when shopping for a dILA" reference somewhere.


Thanks for all the help.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Also, (assuming that Panamorphs become available) what is the difference between an ISCOII and a Panamorph.


Dean - are you trying to get a Panamorph and sell off your IscoII?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,772 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Also, one thing which has kept me from "jupming all over dILA", and going back to considering LCD (or 3 chip DLPs) is some posts that suggest that contrast and brightness are more critial to a "nice picture" than some of the dILA strong points (like good pixel coverage). I think the G10 has like 250:1 contrast (in stock configuration), so I am wondering if a new 800:1 contrast LCD or DLP might be able to "look as nice" even though it has other shortcomings?


Many of the people who became "sold" on dILA did so based on comparisons of the "last generation" of LCD technology. I would hate to buy a G15 and then find out that the 11HT looks "just as good".


Anyways, if you want to see a long discussion of what makes a good picture, check out this topic:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/003797.html


I think I am "still sold" on the idea of dILA but I will leave the door open for someone to jump in and say

"hey wait - LCD is about to catch up".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,160 Posts
PVR wrote:


>Since I will have a small, dark room would I be satisified

>with a G10, or do I really need the light output of the G15?


I had a G1000/G10 and it was a great projector, and I only went to a G15 to support a larger perforated Grayhawk screen.


>Maybe a G15 on a small screen up close will be really juicy >with all the brightness, or maybe it will actually be too

>bright to watch easily?


You still haven't mentioned what size screen that you are planning on. The G15 would be stunning on a low gain screen, but a G10/G11 could also do a very good job, depending on the size and gain.


>Also, are the electronics in the various dILA projectors

>basically the same?


Yes, basically. The bulbs are different between the G10 and the G11/G15.


>If I bought an older G10 unit could it have a worse quality >HDTV scaler than one of the most recently produced versions?


No, I believe that they share the same scaler internally, and with HD material it is great on all D-ILAs.


>Also when a unit is "Calibrated" what does that mean?

>I would assume that the factory ships them well adjusted,

>but perhaps it means that they have been "tweaked" for video

>rather than PC graphics?


Yes, these were designed as business projectors, with light output for computer presentations as the primary concern.


My G1000 had only 60:1 contrast out of the box, and the calibration made a HUGE improvement in both black level, and contrast (up to 500:1). The G15 was much better with a 250:1 contrast out of the box, and was also improved to 500:1.


For watching movies and HDTV material, this is not an option relative to getting the best picture quality.


>Maybe someone can point me to a "what to look for when

>shopping for a dILA" reference somewhere.


It's ALL to be found here, with thousands of detailed posts on every facet of picture quality, calibration and tweaking.

Just do a search and be prepared to read. And be as specific as possible to pinpoint the info that you need.


>Dean - are you trying to get a Panamorph and sell off your

>IscoII?


I bought the ISCO I, and even though I have preordered the Panamorph II 2.35:1 lens, I will be keeping my ISCO I lens as well as each have their advantages.


-Dean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,358 Posts
How would the G 15 do on a 120" to 140" microperf greyhawk?


My room is at the home theater designers & he's recommending a DILA over CRT (size, light output,esthetic reasons).


The room is to be 17.5 X 30 X 9.5 with seating for 12 (three rows).


Thanks Jeff (3 chip DLP cost prohibitive)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
380 Posts
I will be watching to see what answers you get to that question from more knowledgeable experienced members of the forum. I have a DIY 116" grey screen not mircroperfed, a G-15 coming, a Panamorph I coming and a room with the following dimensions 30 X 15.5 X 10. I hope that my screen will not be too large. I don't think it will be, but I'm not a professional. I would imaginge from what I've read that 120" to 140" grey microperfed would be pushing the G-15 beyond its capabilities and you would get too dim a picture. I would think you would need something like the

G-20 for a screen like that.

Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
Jeff, if you do a search you will find lots and lots of info on these lenses. I would first search on ISCO as the majority of posts on the Panamorph are about delays in scheduled release of the newer version.


Neither is inexpensive, starting at around $1000 I beleive. It makes the G15 option more than three times the still-undreviewed 11HT.


Kelly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,075 Posts
Looking at your room size and viewing distance (pretty close) I'm not sure you'd need all that light and detail the D-ILA can deliver (flame suit on!). Very shortly, you'll have both the new Sharp and the new Seleco to look at. Either might be a nice compromise in ease of setup and use and provide plenty of picture detail. Both are native 16:9. Selecos are known for excellent lens and color.


Just my $0.02.


Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,160 Posts
Jeff, Larry,


I have my G15/ISCO I teamed with a 180" 16:9 perforated Grayhawk screen with a G15 calibrated and 830 hours on the bulb and it's plenty bright in a light controlled room, and even looks decent with some room lights on.


The ISCO and Panamorph lenses recapture a fair amount of brightness for widescreen movies, so I wouldn't go beyond 140" without some sort of anamorphic lens.

But 96"-120" would be a very good size, especially with a 16:9 lens added in.


In a pitch black room, your eyes can compensate for a fairly low light source, as you can tell with CRT FPTVs which have a fraction of the light output of a G15, and still look great. The extra brightness comes in most handy supporting lower gain, larger screens with some ambient light present.


To have more confidence in choosing your best screen size it would be best to do some calculations on screen area and footlamberts. I think that Don Stewart was looking for somewhere around 17 FL for the regular Grayhawk and 20 FL for the MicroPerf Grayhawk screens for an optimal picture.


-Dean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,358 Posts
DO you have to remove the panamorph/ISCO lens to view 4:3 source material? (e.g. satellite/4:3 DVDs, etc.)


Jeff
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top