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Discussion Starter #1
Long time reader, first time poster. I've learned a lot from this site. Love it!


Subject says it all:


About to get a Mitsubishi WS-65859 and need to pick up my first progressive scan player. Round and round I've gone, reading threads with opinions (lots of 'em) and the Shootout information (though kind of a synaptic overload!).


The Malata was it for me, until AVDeals pulled the plug. Now. . .I don't know. I think the two features that I want the most are no chroma bug and SCALING ABILITY, as I believe my Mits. locks into full (Standard) mode in 480p. (Is that right?)


So, with those two things in mind, I think that eliminates the Toshiba 3750 (though I've had good luck with my current Toshiba model), and Pioneer (also good past experience). So, which ones do scaling? JVC's--but which models? Panasonic's RP-91 does but is a bit more than I'd like to spend (the 65" packs quite a sting in the wallet).


Any brands and model numbers and some performance opinions would be greatly appreciated!!
 

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You'll be happy to know that your Mits. doesn't lock into full "standard" mode with 480p signals. Mit's fixed that issue with the introduction of their 2001 line. And, this has continued with the 2002's as well.


Chad
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's good news, I suppose. However, would there be a benefit to having the scaling features to handle non-anamorphic material in the player, rather than just using the "Expand" function on the tv? By that I mean would the player do a better job of it that the using the tv's format adjustments? Also, this pixel-by-pixel level of scaling adjustment that I've read some players have, would that allow me to compensate for the overscan on the tv?
 

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in theory, it's better to let the player handle the scaling rather than the tv. reasoning: zooming or stretching via the tv actually causes you to 'see' fewer scan lines resulting in zoomed/cropped lower resolution. if the scaling is performed in the player, the tv can still produce the maximum number of scan lines with a scaled image.

i hope that makes sense

and my apologies to anyone if i've been misinformed.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
that's my understanding, as well. so back to the original question:


which brands and models, hmmm?
 

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sgood3 -

Sounds like the new JVC line is what you are looking for. Absolutely no choma bug, awesome picture that you can control and the best scaling chip in its class. The model numbers are kinda screwy but if you like black equipment, check out the XV-SA60BK for the low end progressive player. Then go up the line to the SA70BK, 80BK, etc. Each jump adds onboad DD 5.1 and DTS decoders, then DVD-Audio. You can go the the XV-FA95BK and get all of the above plus a 7 disc changer for less than $300 online.


If you like gold colored boxes then all 0's are 5's with GD replacing the BK.


I have the JVC XV-FA95BK and it works perfectly. The zoom feature is really neat - almost no loss of resolution when zoomed 100%. The only down side of the player is that the video sourced material is not as sharp as the film based.


I buy DVDs for the movie not the supposedly bonus material that is usually very boring. For DVD movie watching I recommend this player. I almost got the Panasonic RP-91 but the combing effect ran me off.
 

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Considering most people who actual have seen both players say the RP91 has a better picture then the JVC I would tend to go with the vast majority! Combing effects DO NOT occur with film based bur video based elements so the claim that the RP91 combs on movies if not true!
 

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JVC 'Scaling'??????????

I went to the local best buy and tried one of these units out. I have a need for scaling as I own a Elite 710 which locks into FULL when fed progressive. I couldn't ever scale the image, just zoom it. What did I miss???

BTW: yes the picture quality was very good.

Now if we could just get discrete codes.......
 

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Quote:
Combing effects DO NOT occur with film based bur video based elements so the claim that the RP91 combs on movies if not true!
The only thing not true is your statement. The rp91 can and does comb on movies.


I would recommend the RP91 if you are looking for a player to scale a non-anamorphic DVD.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
okay, okay, break it up, or i'll turn the car around we'll all go home...


now then, you JVC owners: how much scaling is possible? is it more than a glorified zoom? is it anything like the x and y adjustments available on the Malata? i'm just wondering how much control is really possible...Just FYI: i need no on-board decoders, nor is DVD-Audio a concern.

as for the RP91: as nice as it is, it's still a bit more than i'm willing to spring for. and the RP56 has no scaling, right?


any other brands with scalers built in?


oh, and video playback is really not a deal breaker for me--film quality is what i'm more concerned about.
 

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Quote:
video playback is really not a deal
You do realize that when watching a film, the algorithm that creates the progressive image will switch between film and video deinterlacing throughout? So, because of this, you should care about video mode. :)


Films are filled with bad edits and bad flags. When a DVD player sees this coming, it changes from film deinterlacing to video deinterlacing. When the problems have passed, it changes back. If the video algorithm sucks, you might notice the change. If the video algorithm is pretty good, that change will be muchless noticable if at all. DCDi really helps in this regard.


I can't remember if the JVC has x,y scale. I think the 723 did, but I don't remember, sorry.


No, the RP56 has no scaling feature.
 

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The JVC doesn't have separate X and Y scaling, just zoom. It's a good zoom, though -- very clean, and with enough steps to be useful.


To add to what Stacey wrote, the Mediamatics chip generally looks OK (not great, but OK) with real video material (i.e. shot with a video camera). It's soft, but watchable. Where it falls down hard is material that was originally shot on film but marked as video on the disc. With this material, you have a choice of ghosting and stuttering (the "soft combing" we talk about in the shootout), or Video 2 mode, which cuts the vertical resolution in half. Either one is pretty bad.


I'm not knocking the Mediamatics-based players. Most of the time, on most material, they'll look really good. I just want to make sure people go in knowing that every once in a while they'll hit material that it can't handle well at all. In practice, you'd probably go for Video 2, which because of the excellent scaling algorithms looks better than you might think, but still super soft.


Don
 

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Discussion Starter #13
ouch, my head hurts! ;)


is there any third choice? some other brand that has Panasonic's RP56 playback quality, but scaling features of JVC's lower end progressive players?
 

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The Malata and Apex 800 expose those scaling features. They perform much like the JVC, but their video levels are WAY off. The Malata has chroma very hot. You can fix this by turning down color on your TV.


The Apex has white really hot. You can fix this by turning down contrast on your TV.


I think the Apex 800 is around $199.
 

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I have tested the JVC XV-S60 and its zoom feature really stinks in comparison to the Toshiba 3750. It is completely useless and zooms in way to far with just one step.


I felt the picture was very nice and there was absolutely no chroma bug. In fact the major down sides to the JVC players are the following:


1. Bad remote (a lot of them have this)

2. Very poor GUI (compared to the Tosh models...but they excel here) and determining how to set up well is not easy.

3. Picture somewhat soft

4. No subtitles in Star Wars I (TPM)


Good points:

1. No chroma - overall very nice picture

2. Excellent Fast forward/rewind features (very smooth)
 

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Technically, (and I fall into this lazy-trap too) a scaler shouldn't be referred to like this. A real scaler also allows resolution adjustments as well, which none of these players do. Just a little inside tip...JVC is also a part of Matsushita Corp, and is sort of the bas.tard stepchild to Panasonic. Get the Panasonic; the price difference is worth it.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dmunsil


I'm not knocking the Mediamatics-based players. Most of the time, on most material, they'll look really good.



Don


Don are the JVC players the one with the Mediamatics chip?


Steve


Ps... please post another link to the Shootout #2... I loved the first one.
 

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I don't want to debate pocketbook issues, but have you looked into pricing the RP-91 on the Net? you should be able to getit for about $450.00, without sales tax, which may put intothe price territory your comfortable with - can't be more than a $100 add over other scan models - and it is just terrific with non-anamorphic material.I use it on a Mits 55905, the 2000 model, with wonderful results. No combing that distracts me.


You sound like you know what you're doing, but pleasebe aware that some ofthese evaluations are posted by guys with full-fledged home theatres, screens that measure in feet, not inches, and `flaws' that legitimately bother them are irrelevant to big screeens our size.


Good luck.
 

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I recently purchased the rp56, mainly because of the good reviews it has gotten from people on this board. However, fdbjr brings up a point that I had previously contemplated when comparing the rp56 and the rp91. In the end, the rp56 won out solely based on price. However, I would really like to have the scaling features. Since I only have a 46" screen, and I have never really noticed any deinterlacing artifacts previously, I think I may be better off returning my rp56 and getting the jvc instead. What do you guys think? Is it worth losing the deinterlacing benefits of the rp56 to gain the jvc's scaling abilities? I still have a couple of weeks to return the rp56.
 
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