AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,884 Posts
The various 24p and 30p formats would probably be awful. It takes fairly careful planning and camera work to avoid having our current 24p film based movies look annoyingly jerky. Any highly detailed 24p or 30p video source I've seen looked unnatural, so we should avoid those.


But, if the ideal of [email protected] is not available, then either [email protected] or [email protected] would be fine with me. Though I voted for [email protected]


- Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,958 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by trbarry
The various 24p and 30p formats would probably be awful. It takes fairly careful planning and camera work to avoid having our current 24p film based movies look annoyingly jerky. Any highly detailed 24p or 30p video source I've seen looked unnatural, so we should avoid those.


But, if the ideal of [email protected] is not available, then either [email protected] or [email protected] would be fine with me. Though I voted for [email protected]


- Tom
720/60p might be better for the rendering of all those animating tickers...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,884 Posts
Quote:
720/60p might be better for the rendering of all those animating tickers...
Certainly true. Though I think those can be sufficiently deinterlaced for progressive displays as long as they don't move too fast if they started on 1080i.


I wonder if [email protected] would be a fast enough rate in PAL countries? I've never seen it.


- Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
605 Posts
As much as 1080p is in the future, I dont even want to know it exists. Its hard enough getting folks on either 720p or 1080i. I voted 1080i since my equipment is 1080i and it looks good to me.
 

·
Registered
LG 55" C9 OLED, Yamaha RX-A660, Monoprice 5.1.2 Speakers, WMC HTPC, TiVo Bolt, X1
Joined
·
45,618 Posts
Pretty simple really, ABC News 720p, FOX News 720p, ESPN News 720p, everyone else 1080i.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
655 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H
Pretty simple really, ABC News 720p, FOX News 720p, ESPN News 720p, everyone else 1080i.



That was just what I was thinking as I was reading the thread...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ken & Tommy,


With all due respect, I was talking about business news channels, like CNBC and Bloomberg. Such channels are quite different from other news channels. Business news, as you know, is full of computer graphics, charts & graphs, text, moving text, fine lines, etc. and the video is extremely stationary compared to the many out-of-studio shots from regular news. Also, much of their audience will want to use flat panel, 720 or 1080, progressive displays in their trading rooms. Whereas regular news will just tend to have "regular" viewers.


To more specifically address your points, it's certainly possible that CNBC will decide on 1080i to simply stay consistent with the rest of NBC. Although personally, I would rather see them choose the format based on the content of the channel. But where does that leave Bloomberg?


Though that is actually beside the point, since the poll was asking which HD format business news channels should use, not which they will most likely use. You know... for when those channels' higher-ups read this thread ;).


Thanks for all input :)

-Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,707 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H
ESPN News 720p
Ugh... I sure hope they don't plan on launching this channel in HD anytime soon.


They fo whatever reason can't/won't show all the HD Baseball and other highlights that are available. and I don't believe it's server bandwidth, because come football time, they always have all of those highlights in HD. Another thing is when they are doing a story about a sports player and show B-Roll it should be HD B-Roll. HDNews does a better job with their sports segment (granted they only show what's HD) but still they show more HD clips a day than SportsCenter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,414 Posts
If they are running NEWS, then who cares?


I would rather watch a movie, sports, music channel......almost anything else besides news, in HD. Now, making a good widescreen SDTV channel for news is fine. But, most nationally-programmed news channels don't really offer that much worth going HD with.

It's even worse when they have outside (of their own studio) stuff to deal with. Almost none of their affiliates, and no news-type sat trucks are equipped to send interviews or actualities to them in HD.


Talk about bandwidth hogging :( .


(I think someone like HDNet, doing special news completely events in HD, fits the bill for most.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
Can you imagion all those affilates then having to down rez all that HD content to WMV files for approvals? (Working on a system standard now for SD) (Ken, may be just a software solution for Symphony output) I can hear them complaining about 'another' system they are forced to build.

George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by trbarry
Certainly true. Though I think those can be sufficiently deinterlaced for progressive displays as long as they don't move too fast if they started on 1080i.


I wonder if [email protected] would be a fast enough rate in PAL countries? I've never seen it.


- Tom
Seeing how we're all stuck with "progressive" displays (even the SD ones) and they generally suck when it comes to deinterlacing, were also stuck with delivering a progressive signal to them (or limiting the choice of content to that which won't look bad de-interlaced -- pre-filtering.) Interlaced graphics don't look bad on interlaced displays. I guess it's back to a case of designing for the lowest common denominator. 1080p/60 would be the way to go, but the 720p crowd says "too many pixels."


The problem with 50 Hz TV was flicker, but new displays don't flicker at 50 Hz. The image changes 50 times a second, but the display always puts out light. (The DLP flicker so fast that we can't tell, but the color wheel causes problems for some.) 1080i/50 and 720p/50 are probably both fast enough for graphics these days. (x)xxx/24, 25, or 30 probably won't cut it.


Now, back to the topic. Business TV? Until you can guarantee that wide screen graphics won't need to be squeezed to 4x3 (i.e., ALL TVs are 16x9) or that letterboxing finally catches on for 4x3 displays, there won't be any wholesale change from what they're doing now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
Just another thought. Business TV is still News Division for networks and content is shared across all platforms, ie outlets. Until a single standard is developed across the board and implemented, it will not appear on a single outlet.

GT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,958 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Thompson
Just another thought. Business TV is still News Division for networks and content is shared across all platforms, ie outlets. Until a single standard is developed across the board and implemented, it will not appear on a single outlet.

GT
Yes - unless you can cope with lots of conversion... (BBC News 24 was a 16:9 island within 4:3 BBC News for 3 years from 1997-2000 before the rest of BBC News went 16:9 in 2000. What fun THAT was...)


Interesting that NHK are apparently claiming 80% HD for their news division now - with their overseas bureaux equipped with HD acquisition and editing gear apparently.


However my reading of that statement kind of went knid of along the lines of "don't they use agency pictures and library/file" as much as other broadcasters??? Certainly Reuters, APTN and EVN are still very much 4:3 SD (and hardly at the high end of that quality spectrum...)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,884 Posts
I personally think TV news is important because it delivers pictures about things we may be interested in. And HD news would mean at least some of those pictures would be much better.


Though I do seem to be somewhat in the minority in caring much about HD news for some reason.


- Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,116 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000
Yes - unless you can cope with lots of conversion... (BBC News 24 was a 16:9 island within 4:3 BBC News for 3 years from 1997-2000 before the rest of BBC News went 16:9 in 2000. What fun THAT was...)
If or when it does happen, it will be easier to implement since it will probably be coming from a single location. Lots of consolidation of facilities.

George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,958 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Thompson
If or when it does happen, it will be easier to implement since it will probably be coming from a single location. Lots of consolidation of facilities.

George
Yes - News 24 was at least in the same building as BBC News. The current situation is a mix of 4:3 and 16:9 regional facilities, with most cameras (apart from freelance crews) having 4:3/16:9 switchable cameras (so a live for a 4:3 region can be made in 4:3, but the live for network 3'00" later can be in 16:9 etc.)


The people who made the most money were the manufacturers of low-cost, small aspect ratio converters. Every news edit suite and live truck, and most incoming and outgoing circuits have one dedicated to them...
 

·
AVS Forum Special Member
Joined
·
11,139 Posts
Business-type and similar (studio) news in H/DTV looks fine on my 1080i CRT RPTV (crisp and distinct lettering). It's the graphics sometimes delivered in standard definition that's still horrific at times. Sometimes lettering is so fuzzy it's nearly impossible to read 8' from a 64" screen, as with some ABC weekend golf broadcasts (see 3rd paragraph), or some of The Golf Channel's setups, as with last week's U.S. Amateur match that had extreme edge enhancement. (NBC's amateur-match coverage last weekend and its 1080i upconversion seemed to mostly cure the unusual weekday SD fuzziness.) Some of this looks like the graphics is being derived from ghost-plagued analog NTSC; perhaps the EE just ruins everything. Whether 720p or 1080i is selected by business-news channels, hope they avoid mixing in any such fuzzy feeds as a matter of policy. -- John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,414 Posts
"I personally think TV news is important because it delivers pictures about things we may be interested in. And HD news would mean at least some of those pictures would be much better."


I agree, but only when a sufficient amount of the news (not just the studio shots) is originated in HDTV. I think a single channel of "best of HD" programming from each provider would be sufficient.......an NBC HD news channel (picking from all of NBCs nets), and ESPN HD news channel (picking from all of ESPNs sources), etc.


Taking up enormous amounts of BW just to call a network "HD", while running mostly upconverted stuff from outside sources seems wasteful to me.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top