AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 86 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Samsung TXM2796HF HDTV. I also plan on getting a Sony HS10 LCD projector as well. I'm looking to add a new HDTV card to my HTPC. Right now I have a WinTV-D (I know junk, but it was $50). I have an ATI Radeon 8500LE with the Component Video Output Dongle in my HTPC.


I only have two criteria for the HDTV card. Which one is the best given my two criteria?


- I would like the ability to timeshare HDTV (like a VCR). I would also like the captured files to not be encrypted (I think the AccessDTV encrypts them).


- I'd like to be able to view HDTV on my PC monitor, HDTV via the 1080i component input on the Samsung HDTV, and HDTV on the Projector via the DVI output on the Radeon (please note, I'm only trying to view it on one of them at a time). The various HDTV tuner cards just use the overly surface correct?


Will any of the HDTV tuner card cards output via the ATI Component dongle or DVI output (using the overlay surface), or do you have to use the 1080i component output on the tuner card itself and there is no chance of using the ATI's DVI interface?


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,496 Posts
Not sure of what you mean by Time share. If you mean view on other pcs, then either HDTV cards will need to be on them, or some form of conversion MAY be necessary. I understand that AccessDTV has dropped the encryption.


I believe View on Monitor and View on HDTV can be handled by any of the cards, but not at the same time and not without some form of cable switcher/switching. None of the card have DVI output. You can output to the DVI via the Desktop, but the resolution is crap. I think they all use their own overlay for full screen display.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
996 Posts
I think he meant timeshift. So have Tivo type functionality.


The MyHD card can do what you requested. I have been very happy with mine. It has been very stable.


It can do VGA or component out. It can overlay a monitor or send signal to a completely separate monitor.


-Jym-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,912 Posts
Quote:
- I would like the ability to timeshare HDTV (like a VCR). I would also like the captured files to not be encrypted (I think the AccessDTV encrypts them).
If you just mean record HDTV for later playback, any of the popular HDTV cards can do that.

Quote:
I'd like to be able to view HDTV on my PC monitor, HDTV via the 1080i component input on the Samsung HDTV, and HDTV on the Projector via the DVI output on the Radeon (please note, I'm only trying to view it on one of them at a time). The various HDTV tuner cards just use the overly surface correct?
None of the cards can do this, unless you're willing to live with a low-resolution display. The only way to get full HDTV video output is via the dedicated output on the back of the cards. The overlay picture is limited to 480p, which would pretty much defeat the purpose of the card.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by JKohn
None of the cards can do this, unless you're willing to live with a low-resolution display. The only way to get full HDTV video output is via the dedicated output on the back of the cards. The overlay picture is limited to 480p, which would pretty much defeat the purpose of the card.
Why are they limited to 480p? What kind of stupid limit is that? It's possible to make a full HDTV (1080i) overlay surface just like PCs and graphics cards do for DVD (720x480). Why haven't any of them chosen to do so?


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by jkaiser
I think they all use their own overlay for full screen display.
You mean they have a VGA pass through like early hardware DVD decoder cards did? You've got to be kidding me? That was a horrible idea then and guess what... It's still a horrid idea. Pass through's degrade the 2d sharpness so much it's not funny.


Arghhhhhh!!!! It looks like no one make something that will do what I want. Figures.


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Jym
It can do VGA or component out. It can overlay a monitor or send signal to a completely separate monitor.


-Jym-
Does the overlay work over the PCI bus, or are we talking about chaining VGA cables? If it works over the PCI bus what is the max res of your overlay surface?


And yes I meant timeshift. I'm not sure why I typed Timeshare.


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
the overlays they talk about are thru the pci bus yes. The reason you can't do anymore than 480p over the pci bus is simply because the pci bus can only do 133MB/s and anything over 480p is just too much data. Someone making hdtv cards, make a 64bit,66mhz card!!!


If you want to watch hd on the pj, you'll need to run a rgb or component cable to it from the hd card, and component to the rear projection tv. At any rate, if you want HD you HAVE to use the HD cards output, which just imo SUCKS :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
254 Posts
" Which HDTV PCI card for me? "


Everyone seems to basically like whatever one they got. I just ordered the HiDTV card from PC-DTV.com. Not many seem to have this card around here (yet) but those who do say it reocrds in the background (I like that) and the tuner is good at locking on the signal. However, when you order from their website it directs you to a paypal payment screen. That kinda worried me. Any joe can get a paypal account to sell whatever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,496 Posts
While I have no experience with the AccessDTV, it is the only one with dual PCI bus giving it a more TIVO like capability.


"You mean they have a VGA pass through like early hardware DVD decoder cards did? " Perhaps, but it is fairly lossless. Use of the pass through cable is of course optional. You can if you so wish run seperate cables.


The Hipix card has a software development team made of AVS members. One of the results of this is the ability to use Zoom Player to view DVDs on the Hipix overlay, thus eliminiating your conserns with the pass through cable.


The MyHD card used to have this capability with a built-in system, but the CSS found out and pulled their licensing from MIT (MyHD company). You can still play DVDs but you are limited in viewing copy protected DVDs (unless you have the old drivers).


"Any joe can get a paypal account to sell whatever." True, and EBay doesn't seem to care (EBay owns PayPal). Never realy understood PayPal for Commercial sites since the fees are nearly as bad as credit cards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by theturtle
the overlays they talk about are thru the pci bus yes. The reason you can't do anymore than 480p over the pci bus is simply because the pci bus can only do 133MB/s and anything over 480p is just too much data. Someone making hdtv cards, make a 64bit,66mhz card!!!


If you want to watch hd on the pj, you'll need to run a rgb or component cable to it from the hd card, and component to the rear projection tv. At any rate, if you want HD you HAVE to use the HD cards output, which just imo SUCKS :)
How come the Elecard player can use an overlay and create a 1920x1080 overlay surface and pass the data over the PCI bus? I must be missing something here. I'm pretty sure that a 480p overlay doesn't max out the PCI bus.


Anyhow... The more I think about it the more I realize I don't need to watch full res HDTV on a PC monitor. I guess I will be able to connect to the projector with component cables to get HDTV just like the Samsung HDTV Monitor.


So, who has the best tuner on the card?


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,912 Posts
Quote:
How come the Elecard player can use an overlay and create a 1920x1080 overlay surface and pass the data over the PCI bus? I must be missing something here. I'm pretty sure that a 480p overlay doesn't max out the PCI bus.
It's my understanding that getting full framerate software playback at 1920x1080 requires a very fast machine, and even then you're likely to get at least some dropped frames. I also think that the architecture of these cards require even more bandwidth for sending the picture to the overlay than with software playback, because they use hardware MPEG decoding which means the data has to be sent to the card and then back for decoding.


Besides, the overlay is going to limit playback resolution to 540p for those of us with 1080i RPTV's, so I'm glad the cards have their own dedicated output.

Quote:
You mean they have a VGA pass through like early hardware DVD decoder cards did?
You don't have to use the passthrough/loopback unless your display only has one input and you don't have an external switcher. I use a high-bandwidth VGA switcher that doesn't degrade the picture quality at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by JKohn
It's my understanding that getting full framerate software playback at 1920x1080 requires a very fast machine, and even then you're likely to get at least some dropped frames. I also think that the architecture of these cards require even more bandwidth for sending the picture to the overlay than with software playback, because they use hardware MPEG decoding which means the data has to be sent to the card and then back for decoding.


Besides, the overlay is going to limit playback resolution to 540p for those of us with 1080i RPTV's, so I'm glad the cards have their own dedicated output.
What happened to the good ol' days of a VESA port on video cards. In case you don't recall there was an internal IDE like header on video cards that allowed the overlay to be done internal to the machine using a ribbon cable. This method would bypass the PCI bus. If the PCI bus is really the limitation (and I'm not certain it is considering the video is YUV compressed and what not) there are other ways around it. I would think that the scalers in the video card would be far superior to what's in your TV.


The ability to have the video card process the overlay and pass it out via DVI at a resolution/refresh rate that allows 1:1 mapping of a LCD or DLP projector I would think would give superior image quality over Component connections to those same projectors.


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by jkaiser
While I have no experience with the AccessDTV, it is the only one with dual PCI bus giving it a more TIVO like capability.
What do you mean dual PCI bus? From what I saw in the pictures on their site it is a PCI card with a breakout that uses another slot's backplate. To clarify I'm not looking to timeshift analog TV, only HDTV.
Quote:
The Hipix card has a software development team made of AVS members. One of the results of this is the ability to use Zoom Player to view DVDs on the Hipix overlay, thus eliminiating your concerns with the pass through cable.
Does this mean they are res'd up to 1080i by the processor on the HiPix card? or are they output at 480p? They are output from the component output on the HiPix card? Can you clarify this any?


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,912 Posts
Quote:
What do you mean dual PCI bus? From what I saw in the pictures on their site it is a PCI card with a breakout that uses another slot's backplate. To clarify I'm not looking to timeshift analog TV, only HDTV.
It actually has dual PCI-PCI bridges, which means it can handle large amounts of data going both ways.

Quote:
From what I saw in the pictures on their site it is a PCI card with a breakout that uses another slot's backplate. To clarify I'm not looking to timeshift analog TV, only HDTV.
You're thinking of the HiPix, the AccessDTV does not use a second back-plate or breakout box. They managed to cram everything on the single backplate by dropping the analog video inputs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
JKohn,


Thanks for the information. As it stands now I am returning my Samsung HDTV to the store. It has a convergence problem. ARGH!!!! Since there seem to be no clear consensus on the various cards I'll probably buy the cheapest of them.


Stereodude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
Are there any plans for a PCI-X hdtv tuner, or some other 66mhz/64bit hdtv card so that we can use them over the pci bus? Secondly no one answered Stereodudes question, on what card uses the best tuner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,496 Posts
I can't say I am surprised that they (TechTV) picked the Hipix considering the other 2 they picked in the review. They are all older cards, unlike the MyHD or HIDTV cards.


My understanding is that they all use the Janus chip set (may not be true for HIDTV).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,396 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I've been busy reading up on all the cards. Which of the cards can put video on the desktop via the PCI bus? It looks like only the Dstream card can use the PCI bus.


It seems the rest are limited to using VIP 1.1. None of the video cards I have since my 4 meg STB Riva 128 have a VIP port on them. So, how am I supposed to use most of these cards and get some video on the PC monitor?


I know that the HiPix can not put video in a window on the desktop under any circumstances (even with the VIP port) (per TechTV and digitalconnection).


The Dstream HiDTV says it "Supports transfer of 704x240p [email protected] or 60fps over PCI bus". So I take this to mean it can put the video on a PC monitor without using the VIP 1.1 port, but can it do so in a window?


From the FAQ on digital connection it seem that the MyHD requires a loopback to put HDTV on the PC monitor in a window.


What about the Access DTV? It is not limited to only full screen like the HiPix, but it appears to use the VIP port to transmit the video?


Stereodude
 
1 - 20 of 86 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top