Which is the best blue-ray player out now?
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To you question regarding the Samsung and the Panny,.....
I'm going to put this as polite and as diplomatic as I can,......
Absolutely not! The Samsung is not a better player than the Panasonic! Trust me on that one!
Read the threads for each player! You'll quickly understand why I'm so adamant about the which is the better player!
Regards!
To you question regarding the Samsung and the Panny,.....
I'm going to put this as polite and as diplomatic as I can,......
Absolutely not! The Samsung is not a better player than the Panasonic! Trust me on that one!
Read the threads for each player! You'll quickly understand why I'm so adamant about the which is the better player!
Regards!
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198 Posts
I am not interested in profile2, but I did buy the sammy 1500 to try. The sounds from the tray, heat at the bottom, all scare me. I returned it for the Panny 30 and never looked back. Watched about 30 blu rays with no problems. I have not tried SD as I leave that duty for my XA-2. Good luck with your purchase. Hope I was some help!!
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1,290 Posts
Yeah, if you have 2 Grand to spend on a Blu ray player! They better and should be the best! For the money, I have to say the Panasonic DMP-BD50. And the yet to be released Sony 550, and maybe the upcoming Samsung BD-P2500 (HQV-Reon) will offer a lot of value for the money!
Regards!
Yeah, if you have 2 Grand to spend on a Blu ray player! They better and should be the best! For the money, I have to say the Panasonic DMP-BD50. And the yet to be released Sony 550, and maybe the upcoming Samsung BD-P2500 (HQV-Reon) will offer a lot of value for the money!
Regards!
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1,290 Posts
You are correct! But when an inquiry is made comparing the "at one time" 2 lowest priced players available, ya gotta to assume that greenbacks are the virtue! In other words, which is the best player his pockets can afford! I mean, it's no secret that Denon, Panasonic, Marantz, offer higher priced BDP's.
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In the venerable words of my "Dad", "Son, it's not about the money,..... but it's about the money!"
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By the way "bland", do you also use your 3800 for 2 channel playback (CD's)?
And if so, how do you like it. "WestcoastD" had mentioned before in another thread, that he thought that his 3800 was indeed as good as any hi-end CDP out there in 2 channel music reproduction. Any opinion on this topic?!
Regards.
You are correct! But when an inquiry is made comparing the "at one time" 2 lowest priced players available, ya gotta to assume that greenbacks are the virtue! In other words, which is the best player his pockets can afford! I mean, it's no secret that Denon, Panasonic, Marantz, offer higher priced BDP's.
In the venerable words of my "Dad", "Son, it's not about the money,..... but it's about the money!"
By the way "bland", do you also use your 3800 for 2 channel playback (CD's)?
And if so, how do you like it. "WestcoastD" had mentioned before in another thread, that he thought that his 3800 was indeed as good as any hi-end CDP out there in 2 channel music reproduction. Any opinion on this topic?!
Regards.
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1,290 Posts
Oh, it's out there! There are folks on this website that own one, if I'm not mistaken.
It may not be on the Panasonic website, but it's on the market!
Regards.
Oh, it's out there! There are folks on this website that own one, if I'm not mistaken.
It may not be on the Panasonic website, but it's on the market!
Regards.
There is only a 3rd party IR solution with the PS3, no RS232, & it is the loudest BD player on the market.. Not a great piece if your noise floor is important. I understand that for most enthusiasts, it fits the bill.... but remember, the uber-expensive Denon was out way after the PS3, yet us Denon buyers opted out (as well as those who bought out all the 2nd run Denon units and sold out first batch Marantz) as a normal IR remote, build quality and RS232 are features not on the PS3 (not to mention superior audio and video tweaks and upconversion). The PS3 falls far short comparatively.. The PS3 defines 'bang for the buck', but it is far from the 'best' player as it has some significant omissions.... and the OP wanted to know 'the best'. It's the Denon (for now).
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24,035 Posts
I still disagree. I have had both side by side and at 1080p/24 they are nearly identical. If the denon was truly "the best" it should have been light years better in pic Q with Blu ray titles. More expensive does not mean it is better. Let's also remember which one is more future proof here. The PS3 wins that one hands down. Have you ever had one in your theater? Mine is very quiet. The first gen was loud but the latest has been quiet. If the PS3 was not as good as it is then why do so many have one just for Blu ray playback? And again in LOAD times the PS3 wins handsdown! I use the PS3 with my Harmony, Sony Navitus, and MX3000. No issues there. And if one does not have a universal remote then just get their BlueTooth model. It works great (I have that one to)... I admit the only let down the PS3 has is bitstream. If it had that then I would just be laughing at your posts... Even without though it is still the most powerful Blu ray player on the market today...
IMO the Pioneer BDP-51FD looks to be the best player/best value. PS3 is the next best option. Unlike the Panasonic BD30/BD50 and Sony S550/S350, the Pioneer BDP-51FD/BDP-05FD are the only 3rd gen players under $1000 that work well with a scaler or external processor, such as the Reon/Realta video chip in Onkyo/Integra processors or the quality upscaling chips found in Pioneer Kuro displays due to the BDP-51FD's "Source Direct" feature. If you go with a Panasonic or Sony, you'll be sacrificing picture quality on the many 1080i Blu-ray Discs available as well as 480i DVDs. You can't encode 30fps (HD video cam/concerts/documentaries) sourced material in Blu-ray unless encoded in 1080i. In this day and age with so many excellent external processing solutions such as those found in the Onkyo 875/905/885P, Integra DTC-9.8, Mitsubishi HC5500, and the Pioneer Kuro displays, any player that CAN'T output the native source resolution should be considered crippled unless it has equally stunning video processing (which none under $1000 have).
The Pioneer BDP-51FD looks like it will be the fastest of the standalone bunch as well based on initial reports (14 second startup from power off). And on top of it all, the Pioneer BDP-51FD has a new 8bit > 12bit optional color upconversion circuit which could dramatically improve titles with banding which no other players have, period. Note that PS3 can actually automatically output 1080i for Blu-ray, but it cannot output 480i for DVD; PS3 also lacks bitstream capabilities and is not as aesthetically pleasing which may be a deal-killer for some. Denon 3800 and other players currently over $1000 are a huge waste - you can make much better upgrades to your home theater with the money you'd throw away on those players including adding the same exact video processing the Denon 3800 has AND MUCH MORE for a much cheaper total cost!
Also, I personally think thebland feels his expensive Denon 3800 purchase & mindshare is threatened by a select number of cheaper players such as the PS3 and Pioneer BDP-51FD/BDP-05FD which clearly rival it and even exceed it in some categories. Hence he recommends players he knows are inferior to people like the new Panasonic/Sony standalones so he can retain his "top dog" status in his mind. There is no other reason he'd recommend said inferior players when there are better options available unless he was not knowledgable about their featuresets & performance, and I believe he is knowledgable about them. Classic cognitive dissonance, in other words.
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The Pioneer BDP-51FD looks like it will be the fastest of the standalone bunch as well based on initial reports (14 second startup from power off). And on top of it all, the Pioneer BDP-51FD has a new 8bit > 12bit optional color upconversion circuit which could dramatically improve titles with banding which no other players have, period. Note that PS3 can actually automatically output 1080i for Blu-ray, but it cannot output 480i for DVD; PS3 also lacks bitstream capabilities and is not as aesthetically pleasing which may be a deal-killer for some. Denon 3800 and other players currently over $1000 are a huge waste - you can make much better upgrades to your home theater with the money you'd throw away on those players including adding the same exact video processing the Denon 3800 has AND MUCH MORE for a much cheaper total cost!
Also, I personally think thebland feels his expensive Denon 3800 purchase & mindshare is threatened by a select number of cheaper players such as the PS3 and Pioneer BDP-51FD/BDP-05FD which clearly rival it and even exceed it in some categories. Hence he recommends players he knows are inferior to people like the new Panasonic/Sony standalones so he can retain his "top dog" status in his mind. There is no other reason he'd recommend said inferior players when there are better options available unless he was not knowledgable about their featuresets & performance, and I believe he is knowledgable about them. Classic cognitive dissonance, in other words.
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Great point. I am hoping the 51FD surpasses the PS3 in my set up. I am hooking up a s350 today until the 51FD arrives. Hopefully that will not be much longer. I was just recently asked if I wanted to get the Marantz and to be honest I am already reading a few posts saying it has the same pic Q (Blu-ray) as the BD30.
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Which is the same story with the 3800 at 1080p/24. I can get one (just like I did the 3800) but seriously I don't need one. They are all so close at 1080p/24 spending over 1,000 on a Blu-ray player does not make much sense to me.
To truly answer the OP's question he should consider what is "the best" Blu-ray player for his set up or situation... That is the best way to determine it...
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To truly answer the OP's question he should consider what is "the best" Blu-ray player for his set up or situation... That is the best way to determine it...
Well the Denon / Marantz are more costly, so few will buy. I understand the price concern. But it plain has more features than the PS3, more video and audio tweaks, etc... It is better. Bang for the buck player, PS3 wins. If I thought it was better I would have bought it (and saved my self $1500). But, to me, the $1500 savings wasn't worth it.
Good points Joe. I've always felt in the video world 'best' should primarily be defined as the unit having the best picture quality. The fact is that probably none of us, if a true blind A/B test were conducted, could tell the difference between any of the current BR players while playing BR movies. I'm not talking upconversion capabilities, but straight 24p playing of BR movies. This is why, if picture quality is your primary concern, there's little reason to overpay for some of the units out there. Do you really care if the unit weight 5lbs or 20lbs if it gives you the same picture quality? Some do, I don't.
Day to day convenience, in my book, gets rated #2. By that I mean issues such as load times. That was the real issue with my Toshibas, but far less so with the Pannys.
I think some of the manufacturers get away with murder on overpriced units that give little advantage over lesser priced units. But that's just MO.
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Good points Joe. I've always felt in the video world 'best' should primarily be defined as the unit having the best picture quality. The fact is that probably none of us, if a true blind A/B test were conducted, could tell the difference between any of the current BR players while playing BR movies. I'm not talking upconversion capabilities, but straight 24p playing of BR movies. This is why, if picture quality is your primary concern, there's little reason to overpay for some of the units out there. Do you really care if the unit weight 5lbs or 20lbs if it gives you the same picture quality? Some do, I don't.
Day to day convenience, in my book, gets rated #2. By that I mean issues such as load times. That was the real issue with my Toshibas, but far less so with the Pannys.
I think some of the manufacturers get away with murder on overpriced units that give little advantage over lesser priced units. But that's just MO.
But not all Blu-ray Discs are 24p. Most concerts & nature documentaries including titles like Nine Inch Nails, Galapagos, and Nature's Journey are 30fps. Blu-ray spec require 30fps content be encoded in 1080i60; 1080p30/1080p60 are not valid Blu-ray encoding options. Some Blu-ray 24fps films are even encoded 1080i60 such as Short Circuit & Beer League!
Therefore, simply dismissing other players because 1080p24 output is the same is not a solid stance to take since not all Blu-ray content is 24fps. And the content that is 30fps relies on the quality of the deinterlacer in the player due to being encoded 1080i60, unless that player is one of the rare ones that have Source Direct output like the Pioneer BDP-51FD. Secrets found that popular players under $1000 like the Panasonic BD30 simply bob 1080i60/30fps Blu-ray to 1080p, resulting in loss of detail.
In summary, yes, 1080p24 will look similar with most BD players. However that does not tell the whole story due to the large amount of 1080i60-encoded content available on Blu-ray, and this is where players widely differ!
But not all Blu-ray Discs are 24p. Most concerts & nature documentaries including titles like Nine Inch Nails, Galapagos, and Nature's Journey are 30fps. Blu-ray spec require 30fps content be encoded in 1080i60; 1080p30/1080p60 are not valid Blu-ray encoding options. Some Blu-ray 24fps films are even encoded 1080i60 such as Short Circuit & Beer League!
Therefore, simply dismissing other players because 1080p24 output is the same is not a solid stance to take since not all Blu-ray content is 24fps. And the content that is 30fps relies on the quality of the deinterlacer in the player due to being encoded 1080i60, unless that player is one of the rare ones that have Source Direct output like the Pioneer BDP-51FD. Secrets found that popular players under $1000 like the Panasonic BD30 simply bob 1080i60/30fps Blu-ray to 1080p, resulting in loss of detail.
In summary, yes, 1080p24 will look similar with most BD players. However that does not tell the whole story due to the large amount of 1080i60-encoded content available on Blu-ray, and this is where players widely differ!
I agree to a certain extent.
I mean if you're simply hooking up to a plasma or such and if is not professionally calibrated, things might look alike - especially at 1080P24 (no processing). BUt as you discuss and laud all the new fangled Reon processing / upconversion in the upcomnig Pioneer yet the PS3 has rudimentary upconversion at best. So, not sure why the PS3 is 'the best' as you put it especially since you're pretty excited about the new Pioneer.
Moreover, a calibrator would find useful the myriad of the Denon video controls in perfecting the PQ (gamma curve choices,Hue etc). It can also bitsteam everything (including DTS MA) and if audio is important, wouldn't you want DTS MA with your new HDMI 1.3 receiver?? The PS3 is hardware limited and will never do DTS MA bitstream. Moreover, it cannot decode LPCM DTS MA and LPCM DTS HR to 7.1... you only get 5.1. Again, limiting. Any decent standalone will do all of those thnigs.
So, it is hardly the best... even if you did a side by side on your plasma (or whatever you have).
But again, for most the differences would be unidentifiable. So, I can see where you might say they look similar. But aside from that, there are so many missing features on the PS3, that it pales in comparison to most standalones.. So, it is a great player for the money, but not 'the best'.. For the OP, go with the 2500.
I agree to a certain extent.
I mean if you're simply hooking up to a plasma or such and if is not professionally calibrated, things might look alike - especially at 1080P24 (no processing). BUt as you discuss and laud all the new fangled Reon processing / upconversion in the upcomnig Pioneer yet the PS3 has rudimentary upconversion at best. So, not sure why the PS3 is 'the best' as you put it especially since you're pretty excited about the new Pioneer.
Moreover, a calibrator would find useful the myriad of the Denon video controls in perfecting the PQ (gamma curve choices,Hue etc). It can also bitsteam everything (including DTS MA) and if audio is important, wouldn't you want DTS MA with your new HDMI 1.3 receiver?? The PS3 is hardware limited and will never do DTS MA bitstream. Moreover, it cannot decode LPCM DTS MA and LPCM DTS HR to 7.1... you only get 5.1. Again, limiting. Any decent standalone will do all of those thnigs.
So, it is hardly the best... even if you did a side by side on your plasma (or whatever you have).
But again, for most the differences would be unidentifiable. So, I can see where you might say they look similar. But aside from that, there are so many missing features on the PS3, that it pales in comparison to most standalones.. So, it is a great player for the money, but not 'the best'.. For the OP, go with the 2500.
Agreed...but deep color will likely never be employed (or at least for a few years) and by that time today's players will be dated and there will be another new player / feature set to argue over
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod /forum/post/14266991
Now we agree. I do like the 2500 and what it brings to the table. As far as 1080p/24 Ken I agree with you 100%. There is hardly any difference with 1080p/24 and that is the most important feature to me... That and deep color!![]()
Agreed...but deep color will likely never be employed (or at least for a few years) and by that time today's players will be dated and there will be another new player / feature set to argue over
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