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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm wondering which projector I should consider for the best possible performance using it for no other purpose than watching DVDs. I have a Toshiba SD5109, so I would want to feed it with the progressive scan component signal.


Is there a projector that can take this signal and not have to put it through a scaler or line doubler, or whatever they call it.


My current projector has 1400 lumens output and my screen is 13' from the front of the lens. My screen is 68" wide. My projector sits on a shelf against the back wall, so rear ventilation is limited, all other directions are fine.


Price range should be $6,000 or under, street.


Thanks for your suggestions.


Here are some pictures of my setup.
http://www.kathiejohnson.com/HomeTheater.html


Deane
 

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Hi, this relates to my other post on projectors and anamorphic squeezing. Unless you have a native 16:9 projector or an anamorphic lense like the Isco or Panamorph, you'll want a projector that can take your 4x3 component input and treat it like video, ie. take the stretched anamorphic output from your widescreen dvd and squeeze the picture to letterbox format. This allows the dvd to pass more picture information to the projector. Really makes a difference in picture quality. Many projectors don't have component feed, so require component to vga conversion, and then treat the input like computer input and won't do the anamorphic squeeze.


So it's very good if the projector says it has an anamorphic option, but make sure it will do that with your input feeds.


With a progressive dvd, you shouldn't need a separate processor box as your dvd player is doing that work for you.


Hope you can follow all this.


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Mitsubishi X400 FProj

Da-Lite perf-in-drop 84" Crystal Image Scaler

DCT-2000 Dig Cabl Box

DTC-100 for OTA HD

Denon 5800 Dig Recvr

Martin Logan front/center
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Deane Johnson:
I'm wondering which projector I should consider for the best possible performance using it for no other purpose than watching DVDs. .
http://www.kathiejohnson.com/HomeTheater.html


Deane
Ok Deane you have me totally baffled...


1. you have a beautiful home theater

2. you have a great website

3. You only want your projector for DVD viewing?


Have you seen HDTV? for $6k you can get tons of projectors that look great for DVD, but more importantly they look stunning with High Definition material (anything over 480i DVD)


Am I missing something?

 

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The Seleco HT200DM is made exactly for this purpose...although a bit higher than 6k. Call Jason or Alan for a quote....I just received mine, and will post impressions soon. Or, email me privately.


Cheers,


Keith
 

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Deane,


Several of the models in your price range you might want to consider are:


Sanyo PLV-60 (LCD), Sanyo XP21N (LCD), Sony W11HT or W10HT (LCD), NEC LT 155 (LCD), NEC VT540K (LCD), NEC LT150 (DLP)


I've seen the Sony 10HT and the Sanyo PLV-60. Both are very good units, but have a noticeable screen door effect. I bought the NEC LT150 DLP unit (which is currently going for around $2400-2700). It is actually quite comparable to the others, althought it is less bright and if you are sensitive to the DLP rainbow effect may not be to your liking.


Check out www.projectorcentral.com as they did a comparison of recommended HT projectors. The NEC LT150 was one of the highest rated and was said to be "the best $5000 HT projector"....of course, that makes it a steal at $2700.


Also, some new HT models are out or coming out such as the Infocus LP530, a Sharp 9000 (probably several $k more than your range), and the Seleco DLP units.


-Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Tryg:


No mystery. There's nothing of interest from any other source. I have no interest in sports, sitcoms, dramas, etc. But I do have a DVD library of almost 900 titles, growing at the rate of 15-20 per month. Am I missing something?


Dave and Keith:


I guess one of the things I am fishing for here is suggestions for a projector that make the best possible use of a progressive scan component signal without having to process it further or up-convert it or whatever happens. I'm relying on suggestions from knowledgeable persons like yourselves as I all of this resolution xga, vga, sgva, scaling, etc. stuff passes me by. What I do know is that the less you mess with a signal, the better. My present projector has a very good scaler built in, but I'd like to get rid of the occassional motion blur and other artifacts even the best of them introduce.


What I'd really prefer is 35mm film, but since that's not practical, I'm after the next best thing.


Thanks for your thoughts.


Deane
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Deane Johnson:
Tryg:

But I do have a DVD library of almost 900 titles, growing at the rate of 15-20 per month. Am I missing something?


Deane
probably not in the DVD department! Wow, what a collection. You must either own a DVD rental store, or live a long ways from one!


Ok here's what I know. Im assuming you know the difference between Interlaced and Progressive scan. Also that DVD(standard definition or SD) is at the bottom of the wrung for new digital formats like:

1080p digital cinema

1080i HDTV

720p HDTV

720i

540p

540i RCA upconvert resolution

480p What Fox digital tries to do

480i SD (DVD) What Fox digital really does ha ha


Ok, all these resolutions above this are really important for home theater because as you get bigger and bigger screens, higher resolutions make it look better! And you have a big screen. You can achieve these higher resolutions many ways like through Dish networks or DirecTV.

Anyway, in the coming years High Definition will rule the planet. There will be a recordable media for the consumer that can play it back and you'll want to take advantage of it.


So in short, don't limit yourself to DVD viewing. find a projector that does awesome HDTV too and I'm certain your DVD pleasure will be enhanced too. Most all projectors in your price range will be HDTV compatable i'm sure.


What will you do with all those DVDs when you can get it on in HD? no need to answer....


Have you heard about a HTPC(home theater computer) this may be one way for you to get the most from your DVDs and a new projector!




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Tryg Hoff
 

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Deane,


The HT200DM is a dual mode 4:3/16:9 chip. It has a 6 segment color wheel unlike every dlp (1 chip) except the new sharp. The 16:9 mode it has is for 480p only...no scaling involved, hence no scaling artifacts. Literally, plug in your prog. scan dvd and hit play. If you search the archives, I believe PF said it was the closest thing to film he had seen out of a digital projector.


Yes, it is expensive, but very good at what it does. Yes, I agree with HDTV an XGA chip will give more resolution and possibly a better picture all things equal. However, resolution isn't everything....color saturation, black level etc. are higher on my list. The Seleco clearly excels at both....


Hope this helps!


Keith
 

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Quote:
So in short, don't limit yourself to DVD viewing. find a projector that does awesome HDTV too and I'm certain your DVD pleasure will be enhanced too. Most all projectors in your price range will be HDTV compatable i'm sure.


What will you do with all those DVDs when you can get it on in HD? no need to answer....
What will you do with your high-res "HDTV" projector, when the studios decide to down-res everything to 480p unless you have a 5c/Firewire digital input?


Check this out:
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la...819jul26.story


It seems to me that there are only three rational things to do right now, if you're shopping for a new projector:


1) Do what many are doing here (if you haven't noticed all the "Dell LT150" threads) and spend as little as possible on a projecter, so you won't take too much of a hit later on when you upgrade to an all-digital HDTV projector. That approach makes sense.


2) Get the best possible DVD-optimized projector, and ignore HDTV until your next projector upgrade cycle. I just bought a Seleco HT200DM, which has a 848 x 480 chip mode that is specifically designed for DVD's. You don't need a scaler to get a perfect match to the chip resolution, and you don't need a line doubler if you feed it from a progressive DVD player. It has an improved red filter (the reds look fantastic), and a six-element color wheel to solve the rainbow problem. It's reasonably quiet (about the same noise as my Dell desktop PC). Cost is a little more than $6,000, but it's worth it (to me, anyway). Search this forum for more user comments with a "HT200DM" keyword.


3) If you do want to keep the door open for HDTV, then wait until the new Firewire-enabled, higher-res projectors are out. People are bitching (understandably) about the copy protection schemes involved with the move to an all-digital signal chain, and about not being able to use the high-res features they thought they were buying with their hardware. But I think this is short-term hysteria. Inevitably, we’ll see messages from people raving about improvements in image quality with the new all-digital displays. It just makes sense to get rid of all those D/A - A/D conversions. Home theater enthusiasts always gravitate towards whatever technology gives a better picture, and they’ll bite the copy protection bullet in order to get that picture.


Meanwhile, some of us are having fun just watching a great DVD picture and not worrying about all this HDTV hoopla.


That’s just my $.02 on all this. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
These are some great opinions that are being offered here. I came out of the corporate world, and before making major decisions, we gathered all of the input and opinions we could. This forum serves the same purpose very well.


I actually have an excellent projector. Takes every format up to 1080I (except 480p). However, the internal scaler is very satisfactory. My problem is that the manufacturer screwed up the adjustments when installing a new digital board and can't get it back in. I just had it in for 2 months and it is still bad. I can't deal with another 2 months of "no movies". What I'd really like to do is get my old projector working again.


Anyone know how you deal with a bad gray scale, a magenta cast in all the dark areas, etc. I think it's just adjustment but neither Telex or Fujitsu seems to be able to adjust it.


Deane
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by foldedpath:
What will you do with your high-res "HDTV" projector, when the studios decide to down-res everything to 480p unless you have a 5c/Firewire digital input?



Meanwhile, some of us are having fun just watching a great DVD picture and not worrying about all this HDTV hoopla.


That’s just my $.02 on all this. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Folded path,

I am not a chicken little advocate, therefor I know there is a workaround around everything. 5C or whatever else they can throw at the consumer. Obsolete? I doubt it.


Even if this was true, isn't 480p what you're watching now? I should be pleased.


With my HTPC I can make a DVD look very good. However, it will never look as good as HD....sorry. Hoopla? please, enjoy your DVDs, I however have set my sights higher and have been enjoying plenty of HD for almost a year now. And will continue to one way or another. If you ever get a chance to see HDTV on a D-ILA you'll understand what I mean. Your welcome to come over and view some on my theater but make sure you bring some extra Hoopla!


Naysayers beware, progress only moves forward.


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Tryg Hoff


[This message has been edited by Tryg (edited 07-26-2001).]
 

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Deane,


What ever projector you get - it will HAVE to process the

signal. The native resolution of DVD is 480 lines - so

your progressive DVD player will put out a 480p signal -

that is 480 lines progressive.


Unless your digital projector has a native resolution of

640 X 480 pixels - which is a rather poor resolution for

a digital projector - the projector HAS to rescale the

DVD signal to match its native resolution. That's why

projectors have internal scalers.


However, a lot of the internal scalers are not all that

good. If you put a high quality scaler or HTPC in the

path to up-convert the progressive DVD signal to the

projector's native resolution - the internal scaler will

effectively be bypassed.


This is good - it takes a poorer quality component out of

the signal path. So it may seem like you are degrading the

signal by adding an outboard scaler - but you really aren't.


Getting the lesser quality scaler out of the signal path by

replacing it with a better quality scaler will increase

the image quality; not decrease it - even though it "looks"

like you have more components to degrade the signal.


Greg

 

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Quote:
With my HTPC I can make a DVD look very good. However, it will never look as good as HD....sorry.
Tryg, I don't recall saying that DVD's would ever look as good as HD. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif My point is that we have a lot of good material to choose from now with DVD's, and very little in HDTV (unless you like sports). The floodgates are about to open, but it's going to be on the studios' terms. And it looks like it’s not going to work with our current displays.


BTW, this won’t affect sports (which is supported by commercials) or OTA broadcast HDTV, which probably can’t be touched for legal and political reasons. But I don’t think the studios will have any trouble confining their most desirable product to the protected channels.

Quote:
Hoopla? please, enjoy your DVDs, I however have set my sights higher and have been enjoying plenty of HD for almost a year now. And will continue to one way or another. If you ever get a chance to see HDTV on a D-ILA you'll understand what I mean. Your welcome to come over and view some on my theater but make sure you bring some extra Hoopla!
Hey, I'm not knocking what a high-res projector can do. I've seen high-end equipment with HDTV source material, and it's impressive. It’s impressive today, but I’m not sure you’ll be able to pull that off 6 months from now. I think that people (newbies especially) need to be aware that we're in the very early days of HDTV here, and there have been some recent events that are changing the landscape. It's like the days when we were hooking up the first CD players to receivers with RCA cables, before a digital audio interface was available.


Back then, if you knew that a digital audio interface was on the horizon, wouldn't you caution someone about buying a CD player with analog-only connections? Wouldn't you caution them even more strongly, if you knew that all CD players and audio receivers would soon have only a digital interface, and no analog inputs at all? That's about where we are now, with HDTV (unless I'm misreading current events).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by foldedpath:Wouldn't you caution them even more strongly, if you knew that all CD players and audio receivers would soon have only a digital interface, and no analog inputs at all? That's about where we are now, with HDTV (unless I'm misreading current events).[/b]
well, i've been buying stuff for 20 years and not 1 product has ever become obsolete except in the transition to something better.


yes, I will still get HDTV 6 months from now and 6 years from now.


Sports makes up maybe 2% of todays HD content.


No, I would not caution them. further I don't know of any audio with digital ONLY interface except MP3 players and computers.


In fact I recommend people go learn about HDTV and that it is here and now. I will get better and eventually will take over. Or, you can preach the alternative which will turn out to be wrong.


------------------

Tryg Hoff


[This message has been edited by Tryg (edited 07-26-2001).]
 

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Deane,


If you truly want 35mm film like appearance with a 68 inch screen, go with an NEC XG85 CRT projector for $5,000 new "A" stock, or a reconditioned used NEC 9PG/9PG+/9PG XTRA for around $3,000. No screen door, no compromise in color...
 

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Quote:
yes, I will still get HDTV 6 months from now and 6 years from now.
Sure, if you watch OTA or anything with commercials. If you want to watch a recent release movie on pay-per-view, or a premium movie channel, or time shift with a PVR, then you will not be getting HDTV at 720p or 1048i. The STB's will down-convert the signal to 480p, if you don't have a Firewire connection and a compliant display device.


This capability is already built into the STB you're using now, and the industry can turn on down-conversion for analog outputs at any time. You may be right about still getting 720p and 1080i 6 months from now, but I wouldn't bet on 6 years.

Quote:
No, I would not caution them. further I don't know of any audio with digital ONLY interface except MP3 players and computers.
Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1, DTS EX and THX are digital audio formats. If you want to hear a 5.1 movie soundtrack, you need a digital interface. You can always plug in RCA cables and fall back on Dolby Pro Logic (if that coding exists) or the receiver's DSP effects, but it's a fallback. You can't get the full effect intended for recent movies unless you have a digital interface.


With the new HDTV rules, the fallback for premium content if you don't have a digital connection is 480p. The studios will not release premium content at 720p or 1080i resolution over anything but a Firewire connection. I think that's reason enough to caution people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Diver:


Do you need a line doubler with these? Will they take 480P? Do they need a lot of alignmnet, etc.? Don't they take a technician to set up?


These are just some of the first questions that come to my uneducated mind when someone mentions CRT.


Deane
 

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They're not very popular on this forum (although someone above mentioned it), but I'd highly recommend a Sony, either the 10HT or the upcoming unseen 11HT. The Sony's have a very good scaler, and the 10HT can be tweaked relatively easily to have very good contrast. They're pretty much designed to be plug and play (i.e. no scaler, no hushbox), which it sounds like is what you want. BTW, I've seen the 10HT, and I think the screen door is a *total* non-issue - in contrast to what others think. It's definitely a subjective question.


The new Sanyo PLV-60 might be a choice, but there seems to be an issue with shadow detail when not driven by an HTPC, so I'd eliminate that for you.


Mike



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