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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi Everyone!

I am totally lost on which receiver to purchase. Have done lots of looking on customer feedback on Bestbuy, Crutchfield, Amazon, and Newegg.

First, here are my room specs and speakers:

Size of room: 21' wide, 13' from couch to screen, 8' high.
TV: Benq W1070 Projector
Speakers: SP-PK52FS Pioneer speaker set by Andrew Jones (new and unopened).
There are more details about the speakers there, which include a pair of the Pioneer SP-FS52-LR's
Got a good deal on the entire set for $329 two weeks ago.


I wish to buy a receiver that has the following:

* That I can play my music files from my android phone, if possible.
* Has wifi to play Pandora and Spotify online.
* That can handle video games from PS3 and Xbox 360 without any audio/video sync issues (read about Marantz having this issue).
* I also watch a lot of Blu-Ray's and 3D movies as well.
* 5.1 is fine, but would entertain 7.1 when I upgrade speakers in the future.
* Banana plugs would be desirable.
* A program like Audyssey to help me set up my speakers.
* I really didn't want to spend more than $700 at this point, but would consider spending more if it was incredible.

Was caught between various models from Denon, Pioneer and Marantz.
I used to have a Yamaha receiver with Energy Micro Speaker system for a while, but the Yamaha didn't have the full rich sound I am looking for.
Unfortunately where I live, there aren't any home theater stores to listen to any receivers.

I started to consider these models, but would entertain others:

Denon AVR-X2000 (but I don't think it can play files from Android)
Denon AVR-S500BT
Marantz SR5009 (very expensive and outside my budget, but would consider it if it lasts)
Pioneer VSX-1123 (read that Pioneers don't last very long lately and are a bit confusing setting up)

I would be grateful for any suggestions or advice.

Thanks all!

-Nap
 

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The denon x2000 does have dlna so it should work with android. Look for google app bubbleupnp for that.
The pioneer 1123 is having big time hdmi problems. Otherwise a good deal right now.
Denon & Marantz struggle with long hdmi to projectors.

The newest Yamaha 477 excels at all this. Audyssey that does any good starts at xt32.
Way above your budget. Almost every home theater website rates yamaha sound #1 .
I wouldn't give up on the most reliable brand.
 

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Audyssey that does any good starts at xt32.
I would argue that it depends on your room and expectations. I replaced an AVR-1910 with an AVR-X2000 last week, and the Audyssey XT on the X2000 did a really nice job EQing my speakers in my room. Yes, I suspect XT32 would do an even better job, but the X4000 wasn't in my budget.

Too early to comment on the reliability yet, but so far no HDMI handshake issues with cable box, Blu-Ray player (not 3D) or HTPC. X2000 does not include WiFi.
 

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I respect every opinion on audyssey. I have never owned xt. I do have xt32. My opinon is based on
what the experts say. The person that wrote the audyssey faq here measured both several times and
thinks xt is way overrated. Read about as much as you want about it here.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#post21783037

Yamaha ypao is no better. They do provide some nice manual eq in 2/3 of their line. Good luck finding a website that rates the x2000 #1 .
 

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The Sony 1050 is highly rated (number one choice in the $600 category per sound and Vision) and does everything you want.
 

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I respect every opinion on audyssey. I have never owned xt. I do have xt32. My opinon is based on
what the experts say. The person that wrote the audyssey faq here measured both several times and
thinks xt is way overrated. Read about as much as you want about it here.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#post21783037
Yep, been through that. Was trying to convince myself that I really needed to spend the extra $ for XT32, but it wasn't in the cards and I needed a new receiver. Next time...

kikkenit2 said:
Yamaha ypao is no better. They do provide some nice manual eq in 2/3 of their line.
Agreed. Setup a Yammy for a friend earlier this year (RX-V475 I believe). The YPAO on that didn't do as good a job as the Audyssey in my 5 year old AVR-1910. Maybe there are different levels of YPAO, I don't know. I haven't dealt with any other room correction software so no comments there. But in the end it sounded good to him, and that's what counts.

kikkenit2 said:
Well, to get a real #1 one would have to increase their budget by quite a bit. ;)
I don't have a high-end HT so the X2000 at $320 fit the bill nicely, and does everything I need it to do. Again, will have to wait to see about longevity...
 

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The x2000 should meet your needs just fine. I loaded the BubbleUPnP app on my phone earlier this week and can stream music files from my Android to my Denon AVR 1613 just fine.

Download the AVR Remote app too and you can use it to control the receiver and run Pandora, internet radio, etc from your phone.

If your $320 price is the refurb from accessories4less you might as well get a new one for $399. Then it comes with a 3 year mfrs warranty instead of 1 year. You also have to pay shipping on the refurb so the final price is even closer.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX2000/Denon-AVR-X2000-IN-Command.html?tp=179&awkw=75620243425&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=47439273265&awdv=c

They even have a promo code for $25 that may work. 3A788
 

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Well, to get a real [URL=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] one would have to increase their budget by quite a bit. ;)
I don't have a high-end HT so the X2000 at $320 fit the bill nicely, and does everything I need it to do. Again, will have to wait to see about longevity...
I meant #1 in that price range. At least you are an informed shopper. I had heard it was going for $400 so $320 is a great deal.
My regular receiver isn't much better. You should be fine. Now for napski...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you all so much for your replies!

I should have mentioned that my room size is 21' long, 13' from the screen to the couch and about 8 feet high.

I'm not sure I'd like to give Yamaha a second chance since I've read that they are not as powerful as mine was. Even with my old Yamaha, I had to really turn it up to hear it on my old system.
I wasn't mesmerized by the sound at all, but it worked and seemed very reliable unlike many of reviews I've read on Denon, Marantz and Pioneer.

I am very tempted to snag that Denon X2000 just to see how it sounds, but I've already seen a few problems with the long HDMI cord to the projector.
Even changing channels with the Yamaha took a second for the signal to get through, so you'd see a blank screen (but I am getting rid of Cable TV since I really don't watch it).
Still, Denon just like most receivers, have their fair share of horror stories and you do see less with the Yamaha out there.
I guess what it comes down to is how the customer service is with the company I choose since I most likely might have to interact with them eventually.

Just like most products today, they are just not built to last like they used too LOL!

I would never go with Sony because I just never had a good experience with them (yes, even the PS3). But I still send thanks for suggesting it and I did check it out. ;-)

I also couldn't find out where to enter that promo code in Crutchfield for the $25 off. They do have a scratch and dent one for $339, but don't know if it's worth it. Still considering it though!

Also I checked out the Yamaha 477 on Amazon which looked ok, but they had a deal on a Yamaha RX-V675 that comes with the bluetooth and wireless adapter for $479 which didn't look bad either.

Any more thoughts, suggestions or comments?
 

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Yamaha is weak in the power supply/raw power spec. For a bigger room definitely gofor the 675 and above.
Or my favorite model is the 775 with full preouts for external power. It sold new as low as $430 several months ago.
Price is sky high now. Not many left.
 

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(trying to answer a lot of questions at once, may seem a little random)

With that size room, @kikkenit2 is right - You probably need something a bit beefier than the AVRs you had on your original list, except maybe the Marantz. This will depend quite a bit on how efficient your speakers are, after a quick Google I couldn't find the printed specs for them. My X2000 is attached to Mirage speakers that are not very efficient (although printed specs claim 89Db) and struggles if I want to really crank it up in 2 chn mode.

We never listen at or anywhere near reference levels, so take that into account. You stated that a Yamaha receiver didn't give you the "full rich sound" you were looking for, was that with your current Pioneer speakers? From what I've read Yamaha is widely regarded as delivering good sound, even in their lower tiers. Did you run YPAO (if available) with the new speakers?

I got my X2000 through HiDef Lifestyles via Amazon. Not seeing any pricing in that $320 range right now, and given your room size I don't know that it would be the best investment for you above that price. You might actually consider an additional amp to drive your mains (along with an X2000 or Yamaha 477), especially if 2 chn music on the same system is important.

And you're right, many electronic components we've (the "regular" consumers if you will) been able to purchase over the past decades certainly are not made to last. Technology moves/improves and we want the latest-greatest, so the manufacturers cut corners where they can to keep the "regular" folks in the mix. They all have faults of some sort.
Personally, if I get 5 - 7 years from a mainstream receiver I'm good with that. Others, not so much.
 

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Thank you all so much for your replies!

I should have mentioned that my room size is 21' long, 13' from the screen to the couch and about 8 feet high.

I'm not sure I'd like to give Yamaha a second chance since I've read that they are not as powerful as mine was. Even with my old Yamaha, I had to really turn it up to hear it on my old system.
I wasn't mesmerized by the sound at all, but it worked and seemed very reliable unlike many of reviews I've read on Denon, Marantz and Pioneer.

I am very tempted to snag that Denon X2000 just to see how it sounds, but I've already seen a few problems with the long HDMI cord to the projector.
Even changing channels with the Yamaha took a second for the signal to get through, so you'd see a blank screen (but I am getting rid of Cable TV since I really don't watch it).
Still, Denon just like most receivers, have their fair share of horror stories and you do see less with the Yamaha out there.
I guess what it comes down to is how the customer service is with the company I choose since I most likely might have to interact with them eventually.

Just like most products today, they are just not built to last like they used too LOL!

I would never go with Sony because I just never had a good experience with them (yes, even the PS3). But I still send thanks for suggesting it and I did check it out. ;-)

I also couldn't find out where to enter that promo code in Crutchfield for the $25 off. They do have a scratch and dent one for $339, but don't know if it's worth it. Still considering it though!

Also I checked out the Yamaha 477 on Amazon which looked ok, but they had a deal on a Yamaha RX-V675 that comes with the bluetooth and wireless adapter for $479 which didn't look bad either.

Any more thoughts, suggestions or comments?

you would most likely need an AVR with a higher watts. on the otherhand, before buying, make sure that you have everything properly set with your old receiver. output relies heavily on a lot of things and not solely reliant on the kind of receiver. one is setting up the proper output effect from the receiver which means setting it up manually. I would not be so reliant or dependent on YPAO as the proper or optimal setup but rather use it as a reference for any further adjustment that you would want or the desired effect that you are looking for. wire gauge used is another thing so consider the resistance of the wire used. set the speakers impedance and be aware that the brand or type of speaker that you use also has an effect on the sound quality that the receiver decodes. a bad or standard set of speakers will just impede your receiver's potential capability.

as far as Yamaha receiver goes, I just bought one that is a newly released model recently and it produced some amazing clean sound. I bought it by virtue that it was the best value available at that time and was on sale. also basing on track record when it comes to reliability and close access to a service center if ever the receiver goes bad.

I also love the sound quality of the Harman Kardon, Onkyo and Pioneer. I did not include the Marantz because it may be just too rich for you. Pioneer seems to be the least reliable. Onkyo has it's shares of lemons although it's loaded with features. Harman Kardon is quite dependable and does seem go head to head with the Onkyo. so really, I would base my selection on reliability and best bang for your buck as these receivers from these brands are really good.
 

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Tested the Yamaha 375 had plenty of power for movies IMO. Matters how loud you want it, but it had plenty of power for any level I listen at.

Part of the reason is the law of diminishing returns on power. Double the power, 3 dB more SPL. So the top of the line vs the bottom of the line won't have a huge difference in the peak volume they can put out, at least on paper.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
kikkenit2:

So sorry it took me a bit to respond but I've been so busy at work.
I did check more into Yamaha, but just haven't found a good deal yet on a Yamaha 675 and above that has good raw power, meaning at least 95 watts per channel and above, correct?
I did see a Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A740 on Crutchfield & Amazon for $649, but that doesn't seem like a good enough deal at that price.
What do you think?

smcmillan2:

I did consider a Marantz, but again read some bad things about them as well, like HDMI problems and freezing up like the new Marantz SR5009 for $899 on Crutchfield, but still keeping an eye on a good deal with one.

TechyBoi::

I agree that I should probably be looking at higher watts. I guess I should be looking for 100 watts and above, correct? True that Marantz might be too rich as far as price, but if I found a good deal on Marantz that I could finance through the seller, then I would pull the trigger. I also had my eye on Harmon Kardon since a co-worker has an older one that he brags about. Onkyo and Denon seem to have their fair share of bad apples it seems, although the Onkyo seems to have good wattage.

I also looked at the NAD receivers, but read that they are better for music than movies & video games. I mean I do love Pandora and Spotify and would try to use them more often if the receiver supported them on wifi.

MichaelJHuman:

Really? The Yamaha 375 I don't think would have enough power for my size room, would it? I had a Yamaha 37...I forgot the last number, but it only had 75 per channel. I had a smaller place then with a Energy Micro Speaker system, but now I have a bigger room. But the Yamaha could never really make those speakers shine from what I read from other reviews.

Still I have those Pioneers brand new in the box and haven't opened them yet. Guess I should soon to make sure they are not damaged! LOL!



UPDATE: I actually just pulled the trigger on a Harmon Kardon AVR 1710 for $299 BUT I think I am going to refuse when it arrives from Amazon tomorrow. It's a 7.2, 100 watt receiver and was the only reason why I pulled the trigger since it was the last one at that price, but it was an impulse buy and after reading some of the reviews, the lack of wifi, not knowing if has a good speaker calibration system, I think it's a bad purchase, so I am back on the hunt. Sigh....

Almost bought a Pioneer VSX-1124 for $499 last night on Amazon, but slept on it and in the morning it went back up to $599! Figures :rolleyes: LOL!

Also, I was curious about which speaker wire would be best. I thought that maybe this Monster wire would be good. Is this good because the room is white?

I just bought some Deabolt banana plugs from Amazon. Are they good as well?

Thanks again very much everyone for your input! I've been going a bit bonkers over receivers the last month and I truly value everyone input!! :D

Lastly, I added my details about my room size and speakers in my very first post at the top with links...so sorry about that!

-Nap
 

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There's some reasons the 375 works

* Each doubling of power is listening level change of 3 dB SPL , so differences in power don't produce as big of a difference as it would seem
* Most speakers put out , in the neighborhood of 90 dB SPL with only one watt of power
* With a powered sub, you take load off the receiver's power supply/amp section
* With a moderate listening level of 95 dB peaks, you don't need a lot of power
* With movies, if the receiver does run out of power, it will be for a short period of time on loud peaks, and you might not even notice the distortion

For music, my theory is you would more likely notice some audio distortion due to the lower peak to average level you experience playing back music, and the fact peaks will happen more often
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
There's some reasons the 375 works

* Each doubling of power is listening level change of 3 dB SPL , so differences in power don't produce as big of a difference as it would seem
* Most speakers put out , in the neighborhood of 90 dB SPL with only one watt of power
* With a powered sub, you take load off the receiver's power supply/amp section
* With a moderate listening level of 95 dB peaks, you don't need a lot of power
* With movies, if the receiver does run out of power, it will be for a short period of time on loud peaks, and you might not even notice the distortion

For music, my theory is you would more likely notice some audio distortion due to the lower peak to average level you experience playing back music, and the fact peaks will happen more often
Hi Michael and thank you for your response.

I guess I am bit confused, but are suggesting that I along with the 375 that I should purchase a more powerful sub (ex. SVS subs)?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Any last suggestions on this?

I received the AVR-1710, but the box looks like a customer return, so I might return it to Amazon.

Still considering other receivers at the $700 line. Would like something with at least 100 watts per channel or more.

Liking the Yamaha RX-A840BL or higher, but right now it's a bit too much.

Any others?
 

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Upon further review. These speakers might be a little small for a big room. 4" & 5" midwoofers is pretty small. You have been worried about the receiver power.
Speaker size/efficiency is more important. Good brand and model but not very loud. I would spend more on the speakers and less on the receiver.
The towers are actually a three way so they play almost as much deep bass as that subwoofer. That subwoofer isn't worth the bother. You need at least a 300 watt 10" subwoofer.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-PK52FS-Theater-Speaker-Package/dp/B00IK8I9K2

The Yamaha 775 has wifi and allows full use of external amps. Below this model doesn't. Also has party mode and 8 point ypao.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V775WA-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B00B981F2Y
This thing was on sale for $430 at newegg about 5 months ago. It sold so well the price skyrocketed. Finally coming back down some.
The whole lower and midrange Yamaha line sold well. Not much left so great deals are hard to find. It does have a global
crossover and no subwoofer eq. Otherwise rock solid and good sound. My daily unit is the V773 and I have several to pick from (own).

My speakers all have 6.5" mids minimum. Fronts are 8" mid and center is dual 6.5"s. Subwoofer is 800 watt 10". All way above your budget.
They will sound better with a $300 receiver than those pioneers with this $600 receiver. I would head over to the speaker/subwoofer forums first.
Then come back here. I bought about 50 speakers three years ago. Not up to speed on speaker deals lately. Receivers evolve, speakers not so much.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
These speakers might be a little small for a big room. 4" midwoofer is pretty small. You have been worried about the receiver power.
Speaker size/efficiency is more important. Good brand and model. Just very small mids.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-PK52FS-Theater-Speaker-Package/dp/B00IK8I9K2
The Yamaha 775 has wifi and allows full use of external amps. Below this model doesn't. Also has party mode and 8 point ypao.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V775WA-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B00B981F2Y
This thing was on sale for $430 at newegg about 5 months ago. It sold so well the price skyrocketed. Finally coming back down some.
The whole lower and midrange Yamaha line sold well. Not much left so great deals are hard to find. It does have a global
crossover and no subwoofer eq. Otherwise rock solid and good sound. My daily unit is the V773 and I have several to pick from (own).
You know, I still didn't open up the speakers yet and was going to send them back and save up for bigger ones (since I still have them brand new in the shipping boxes).
I was wondering if they should go back because I wasn't sure if they would do well. Think I should?

But them I wondered if I were to just save up and get a more powerful sub, like an SVS PB1000 and add that to those Pio's.
Either that or I can save up for some Klipsch speakers?

I'll keep an eye on those Yamaha's but yes, they did go way up in price!

Thanks!
-Nap
 

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I didn't know you had a big room so I didn't even look at the links you posted. Andrew Jones is good value.
Tonight after I posted the receiver I looked at the speaker specs. File too big to post! Boo. Small drivers all around.
The tower has a single 5" mid. The center 2-4" mids and the surrounds a single 4" mid. And the subwoofer is only 8".


None of that cuts it in a big room with any amp power attached. Pioneer does have a slightly bigger center, but
not the whole kit. I would just get something like the denon x2000 for under $400 and just settle for a good
internet direct subwoofer. I use svsound, hsu research and a few brands long gone, but they all rumble.


And settle for some decent bookshelfs for the front that can be moved to surround maybe. You don't really need towers
with a good sub. Or even starting with 3.1 is simple to run wires and gives you good dialog control. Eventually
expand to 5.1, 5.2 or more as budget/desire expands. Don't skimp on speakers. Even the $300 receivers sound good.
 
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