[politby]

Greetings


I am helping a friend design his new home theater. The dilemma is he decided on which projector to get before I got involved and now I am faced with the dilemma of finding the right screen surface material for the 40 square foot Da-Lite electric screen I have found is the best fit for the room. I believe it is 181" diagonal.


Throw distance is NOT flexible because of the characteristics of the room. It is set at ~9.8 meters, almost 30 feet and the Sony VW30ES 3D projector is rated at 1,300 lumens which gives us only 15 ftL.


He is well aware that is not a lot of light output for a screen that size at that distance. He is perfectly willing to replace the PJ later on as technology evolves but right now this is what I have to live with.


Lighting will be 100% controlled and he expects viewing will be 80% HDTV and Blu-ray, with the rest 3D.


Should we go with the Da-Lite High Power material?


Or is the whole idea crazy?

 

[airscapes]

181".. is crazy with that projector.. HP would help but you would need to mount the projector so it was just over the viewers heads.. and even at that, it won't be bright enough .. then if the projector is calibrated for best image quality and lamp ages a few hundred hours you will be screwed.. dim image no pop.. why bother. You need a higher end projector, 3 DLP with real light output if you want to set up something like this or go with a more realistic screen size for the projector.. like 120-130.

 

[politby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes /forum/post/0


181".. is crazy with that projector.. HP would help but you would need to mount the projector so it was just over the viewers heads.. and even at that, it won't be bright enough .. then if the projector is calibrated for best image quality and lamp ages a few hundred hours you will be screwed.. dim image no pop.. why bother. You need a higher end projector, 3 DLP with real light output if you want to set up something like this or go with a more realistic screen size for the projector.. like 120-130.

That's what I suspected I would get as a response.

Problem is he insists on 3D. I am sure he would not object to a PJ 5x the cost of the Sony (he is not short of funds) but I doubt even that would get a bright enough 3D projector. Or?


He says he is willing to zoom in for a smaller image if necessary but I do not think he realizes what a kludge that will be.


What sort of options are there on 3D projectors - are we looking at Runco class units? It needs to be available now and how wise it is to spend $30k on a 3D PJ which could be obsolete in 24 months when technology has evolved?


Maybe better to get a great 181" screen and view the Sony as a stopgap alternative to be replaced in a year or so. The room design isn't going to change so the most flexible parameter is the PJ.


Any others want to chime in?

 

[Benito Joaquin]

as airscapes says...he is setting himself up for failure.

It will not look good. Not at all.


He can look into Runco, Digital Projection or Sim2. These projectors will give him the best chance but even then, the 3D image will be dim. As long as he understands this, that would be your best option.


Benito

 

[rovingtravler]

The Sim2 Lumis or the Runco D-73D or SC60 would be good options


As the Dp Titan

 

[politby]

Hmmm...


A quote from a recently posted review at Projector Central:


"At 540 lumens, the HW30ES looks best on a 160" to 180" diagonal screen in a dark room. "


Now what?

 

[airscapes]

If you mounting position is correct for the HP screen for max gain then go for it!

 

[politby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes /forum/post/0


If you mounting position is correct for the HP screen for max gain then go for it!

I think we can manage that; vertically we have flexibility and horizontally it will be dead center. Ditto for Screen mounting.


We can probably set the PJ up in the optimal position in relation to the screen.


Da-Lite has a couple of different high gain surfaces including "3D Virtual Grey" at 1.85 gain. Is the High Contrast High Power the best?

 

[airscapes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by politby /forum/post/20853899


I think we can manage that; vertically we have flexibility and horizontally it will be dead center. Ditto for Screen mounting.


We can probably set the PJ up in the optimal position in relation to the screen.


Da-Lite has a couple of different high gain surfaces including "3D Virtual Grey" at 1.85 gain. Is the High Contrast High Power the best?

For a dark room with dark walls and a to small projector the standard HP with 2.4 gain is what you want with the projector shooting 3-6 inches above the heads of the viewer when seated. Closer to their eye level the more gain..

Now, if you could find a used 2.8 gain.. that would be better yet but about a likely as hitting the power ball! I would also suggest reading some of the HP threads unless you are very familiar with screen caveats and limitations.

 

[Benito Joaquin]



Quote:
Originally Posted by politby /forum/post/20853767


Hmmm...


A quote from a recently posted review at Projector Central:


"At 540 lumens, the HW30ES looks best on a 160" to 180" diagonal screen in a dark room. "


Now what?

a 180" diagonal gives an image size of 88" x 157". that is a reading of 5.6 if using a 1.0 gain screen....sorry but that's just not going to work! It will look best on a 100-110" screen. Not a 180".


Your only chance is using the HP screen from Da Lite.


benito

 

[Ron Jones]



Quote:
Originally Posted by politby /forum/post/20852783


Greetings


I am helping a friend design his new home theater. The dilemma is he decided on which projector to get before I got involved and now I am faced with the dilemma of finding the right screen surface material for the 40 square foot Da-Lite electric screen I have found is the best fit for the room. I believe it is 181" diagonal.


Throw distance is NOT flexible because of the characteristics of the room. It is set at ~9.8 meters, almost 30 feet and the Sony VW30ES 3D projector is rated at 1,300 lumens which gives us only 15 ftL.


He is well aware that is not a lot of light output for a screen that size at that distance. He is perfectly willing to replace the PJ later on as technology evolves but right now this is what I have to live with.


Lighting will be 100% controlled and he expects viewing will be 80% HDTV and Blu-ray, with the rest 3D.


Should we go with the Da-Lite High Power material?


Or is the whole idea crazy?

First your math is wrong. If you have a total screen area of 40 square feet on a 16 x 9 aspect ratio screen you are are looking at a diagonal size of about 117 inches (i.e., 102" wide by 57.3' high = 40.5 square feet).


Second: This is a screen size that with a modest gain is compatible with the HW30ES light output (actual value on the order of 900 lumens in a useful 2D mode but a lot less effective output for 3D when the light loss of the 3D active shutter glasses is included), but the projector's zoom range is not nearly enough to support that small of a screen from a throw distance of 30 ft. In fact, I don't know of any typical consumer projector at a reasonable price that could support such a long throw for that screen size.


Third: There are some high-end 1080p projectors that have removable lenses where the manufacturer offers an option for a long throw lens, but these tend to be expensive projectors and 2D only.


You will probably need to go with a larger screen and perhaps one with relatively high gain (such as the Da-lite high power fabric). Also perhaps a different projector with a fairly long zoom range, or a generally longer throw requirement. The HW30ES only has 1.6x zoom and several models from other companies (e.g., JVC, Epson, etc.) have 2.0x to 2.1x zooms. Even the current JVC and Epson models with a 2x zoom would need a 150" diagonal 16 x9 screen to work with a 30 ft. throw distance and for that large a screen you will need a high gain screen material to work with 3D, and even then it won't be very bright (but it can be usable) with this class of projector. There will be quite a few new 3D projectors announced and demo'ed in two weeks at the CEDIA trade show, so I suggest you hold off just a little to see what's coming soon.

 

[politby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones /forum/post/0



First your math is wrong. If you have a total screen area of 40 square feet on a 16 x 9 aspect ratio screen you are are looking at a diagonal size of about 117 inches (i.e., 102" wide by 57.3' high = 40.5 square feet).

Oops, didn't spot the typo. I meant 100 sq. ft not 40. Screen is 90" x 160" and in fact 184" diagonal.


@Benito: So you are saying the Projector Central review is no to trust w/ r t the statement about screen size?


And the HW30 is probably not returnable since he got it direct from Sony (record company owners have leverage with the manufacturers

)


Looks like the HP screen is the one to go for if we can get it with the Electrol screen.

 

[airscapes]

Please read up on the screen, you have not said if you are familiar with the limitation of the screen. If the seating and projector are not optimum for the screens requirements it will be of no help for your issue.

 

[Benito Joaquin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by politby Oops, didn't spot the typo. I meant 100 sq. ft not 40. Screen is 90" x 160" and in fact 184" diagonal. @Benito: So you are saying the Projector Central review is no to trust w/ r t the statement about screen size? And the HW30 is probably not returnable since he got it direct from Sony (record company owners have leverage with the manufacturers ) Looks like the HP screen is the one to go for if we can get it with the Electrol screen.

There have been many negative things said about the latest reviews from projector central, i'm not going to add to that.

I will say though that i totally disagree with the HW30 being matched with a 180" diagonal unless you go really high on gain. With a 1.0 gain, you would only get between 5-6ftL.

 

[politby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Benito Joaquin /forum/post/20857126


There have been many negative things said about the latest reviews from projector central, i'm not going to add to that.

I will say though that i totally disagree with the HW30 being matched with a 180" diagonal unless you go really high on gain. With a 1.0 gain, you would only get between 5-6ftL.

Dead on. I finally found the specs for the projector and calculated the luminance and with the loss through the glasses - no way 3D will work.


We are taking 2 steps back and re evaluating.