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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello guys,


I have a NHT speaker set ( ST-4s, SC2, HDP-2s) I'm going to bi-wire my fronts and Im wondering what brand spade concectors I should get. Are the Monster solderless ones any good? I can do my own soldering if needed. I noticed with the crimp or solder ones only contact is from the outside of the wire, with the monster ones I looked at it would be the center of the wire making contact? I will be using Monster Cable M series 1.4s wire ( I got a 250ft spool for $300). I will be using a NAD T785 reciver. And the cables have to be about 30ft long. Any help would be great.

Thanks
 

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Bi-wiring will bring no sonic differences when you are using the same avr so it's really not beneficial and to prove that point try to setup the speakers both ways and you will see for your self,

As for monster cable products you will be paying about 5x what they are really worth so get banana plugs from
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

because monster products are overpriced ,also parts express has them cheaper,

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=091-300

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=092-660


Bear in mind, when choosing between spades or bananas, that because spade lugs have to go onto binding posts sideways, they really aren't practical for many of the surround amps on the market today, as there just isn't room for them. If in doubt, you're better off with banana plugs, which plug right into the ends of most binding posts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the links, Im looking into them. I think the bi-wiring will make a difference with my reciver, they will get twice the power and the sub on the st-4s will be active vs. passive. Its a 7 channel reciver and Im only running a 5 channel set-up. The NAD T785 will let you use the surround backs to bi-wire the fronts. I agree on most recivers there would be no difference, will just spending more on cable, lol. Im really not a Monster cable fan but, a 1.4/ft for good wire seemed like a good deal, retail is 7.50 - not worth even half that but 1.40, I'll try it. Sometimes I get focused on the wrong things, like spade connectors, and solderless vs. core crimp. With the cheap stuff I have, I shouldn't even care.

Thanks for the info !!
 

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I'm going to do something that I don't usually do...I'm going to suggest that you consider the Monster QuickLock series, but probably only if you can find a deal on them. When I was in search of spades and banana plugs (louthewiz is definitely right about spades not being practical on almost any current receivers, so chances are that you'll want both), I checked various threads on what to buy. There never seemed to be much of a consensus, except that most people seemed to recommend the cheapest ones they could find.


Now, I would NEVER suggest that Monster spades and plugs are going to make any audible difference, as compared to cheaper ones (which I think was the point of recommending the cheap ones). But, the fact is that they work well. They are screw-on (which I found easier than I did with some cheaper pin connectors that came with my speaker wire), not solder. The spades are larger than most I've seen, which I like. They all have nice rubber grips, and they make solid connections.


That said, the retail price on these things, IMO, is INSANE. Paying $19.95 for two pair of plugs, spades or "flex pin" connectors is excessive, especially if you have a full surround setup. BUT, if you have some good luck like I did, and you have a coupon [I had one (it was $10 off, but I can't recall whether it was off a $20 or $30 purchase) from another store's closing sale, but you can get $10 off $40 from an Entertainment book if you have one, and probably other places], you might be able to get a very nice deal, like I did.


Last July, I came across a sale/clearance on Monster stuff at a local Radio Shack (not the first one I had checked). I picked up all of the spades they had left, thinking I was paying a little under $9.97/pair before the coupon (I was going to try to use two). It turns out the the spades must have been on clearance for a while, as they rang up for $4.97/pair.


The bottom line on my first spade purchase was 19.88+tax for 6 boxes/12 pair. I consider this money well spent, so if you have luck like that, I say go for it. I wish I could find my other receipts, so I could accurately relay the precise details on the rest of the purchase (I had to order a few bananas online to complete my setup). Happy hunting, and of course, YMMV.


Nathan
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Nathan -


Here are the two Im looking at. What do you guys think?


The first choice are one just like the monster cable ones. they would cost $56 for 14 pairs shipped.

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...6635&rd=1&rd=1


Then there are these I found that are made from solid copper. You can get them plated if gold or silver or not plating at all. they would be $60 for 14 pairs shipped.

http://luminousaudio.com/terminals/spade.html


I dont might soldering if I need to. Its nothing like the deal Nathan was able to find ! I also got a couple monster digital coax cables on sale for 8.97 at Radio shack. I think there still selling them on there web site too.


I attached a pic of the reciver. Its the one on the bottom. I dont know if Spades will work but I think they might.

Thanks for all the great info people
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tht1guyinwi /forum/post/0


Thanks for the links, Im looking into them. I think the bi-wiring will make a difference with my reciver, they will get twice the power

I suspect you mean bi-amping, not bi-wiring. Regardless of that, the power of the amps do NOT add together when bi-amping.


Do a search for biamping or bi-amping, the reason why the watts are not additive has been explained again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 /forum/post/0


I suspect you mean bi-amping, not bi-wiring. Regardless of that, the power of the amps do NOT add together when bi-amping. (snip)

If we are talking music (not test tones) and the crossover frequency is low (200 to 600Hz) then the two amps power sorta sums.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I know the power all depends on the ohm load and the crossover in the speaker. If its normal load is 8 ohms and when you sperate them its 16ohms then the amp with only put out have the power. With my speakers it keeps the load at 8ohms. So I would have the twice the power available, I think. The main reason is the better sound advantage. But my way of thinking could be all wrong too. Thats why Im on here to get help.


And yes I mean bi-amping. Bi-wire without bi-amp to me would not be worth it.
 

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The first link didn't work, so I can't comment on that. The second link I don't know much about. All I can say is to go with your preference as far as cosmetics, grips, etc. I prefer having the nice grips on the Monsters, but I will confess that it shouldn't matter much, if at all, on the spades. It certainly helps on the bananas.


The part I am not at all qualified to speak on is the size of spades. The Monster spades I am using would appear to be much larger, and I would think that they could accommodate larger posts. The Luminous page states what size posts it will work with (6-8mm, and 9mm with some "slight tweaking"). Now, I don't know what size most posts are, or what size yours are, but I would try to figure it out. I don't know about you, but I would not want to use spades that require tweaking. I would want them to fit properly without modification. I would be particularly annoyed if I ordered something on the net, got them in the mail, only to find out that they were too small.


My guess would be that they will fit, but see if you can figure it out.


It would appear that your receiver is more "roomy" on the back than mine, and most I've seen, probably because yours has fewer inputs, which allows the speaker posts to be lined up side to side, without stacking them up and down.


Nathan
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The speakers terminals are like that because they are all seperate amps in the reciver, the thing is huge. Its almost 10"s tall and its about 65lbs. I dont have it yet, its being released this feburary or march.

Thanks for the help guys
 

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If both the woofer and the tweeter are 8 ohm, the passive crossover sends the low frequency stuff to the 8 ohm woofer, but makes the amp think that at high frequencies the woofer is 32 ohms or more. Continuing the passive crossover splits the high frequency stuff to the tweeter at 8 ohms, but for low frequency stuff the crossover makes the amp think that the tweeter is 32 or more ohms.


If you bi-amp each amp puts out almost full power but only in its frequency range.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Graf /forum/post/0


If we are talking music (not test tones) and the crossover frequency is low (200 to 600Hz) then the two amps power sorta sums.

I'm listening, please continue.



100w into 8 Ohms is about 28 volts. So, no matter if there is one 100w amp or two 100w amps (in passive bi-amp) driving the speaker, the max voltage available is still 28 volts. How does that provide any more headroom or output?


The clipping level is essentially the same either way since both amps have to produce the voltage swing of the full range music waveform - regardless of which section of the speaker the amp is driving.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tht1guyinwi /forum/post/0


Is that why when you bi-amp you get such better performance?

You DON'T get such better performance....


If you want meaningfully more headroom/output, you must have more powerful amps (read as more voltage swing).


As I posted before, two 100w amps in passive bi-amp can only produce about 28 volts of output across the entire frequency range - essentially the same as a single 100w amp. Whereas, a single 200 watt amp can produce roughly 40 volts of output.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok, so here my stupid question now, I have NHT ST-4s. The have a 5.25 woofer, tweeter and a 8" side firing sub. So I think when I bi-amp these, one amp would do the sub and the other would do the woofer and tweeter. So, do you think there would be any sonic improvement in sound quality vs Just one amp? And how do I found out what voltage my amp can put out? And wouldnt you get better performance even if each amp only put out the same voltage, arent they going to be more efficent because they are driving less?

This is getting way interesting. By the sounds if it - your saying bi-amping is a big waste of money and time.
 

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Many amps current limit long before reaching their voltage limit.

This is especially true with woofers that drop well below 4 ohms.

Woofer peaks and tweeter peaks seldom line up.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Graf /forum/post/0


Many amps current limit long before reaching their voltage limit.

This is especially true with woofers that drop well below 4 ohms.

Woofer peaks and tweeter peaks seldom line up.

Nothing changes the fact that two 100w amps in passive bi-amp is not even remotely similar to powering that same speaker with a single 200w amp. That is the one and only point, and misconception, that I'm trying to make/dispel.
 

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One thing you should consider is whether you want your spades to be flat or angles. The Monster ones are angled, as I believe are many others, though I could be wrong. I like this, though it would probably be mostly a matter of preference and your particular needs for your layout.


The "cheap" spades shown on the links provided above seem to be similar in connection to the pin connectors I had that came with my speaker wires. I didn't care for these, in part because of the limited amount of room to tuck cable inside the connector, but that was just preference.


Nathan
 
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