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I have already contacted SVS, but would appreciate input from the forum as well. My home theater is 2500 cubic feet (13.5 x 19.5 x 9.5) and can be fully closed. The sub would be 100% for movies -- we never listen to music in there. I was initially considering the 20-39 PC+, but after discussions with SVS I am focusing more on on the PB-2ISD -- even though their website tends to market it as a more "musical" sub.

There seems to be little talk here about the PB-2ISD, however, with more people extolling the virtues of the PB-2+.


Would the Pb-2+ be absolute overkill in my sized room? Many of you that have purchased it seem to have rooms much bigger than mine. I am not against ponying up the additional $300 if it will provide a noticeable and beneficial difference, but don't want to throw money away either, if one of SVS's lesser subs would be more than enough for my needs.


We are not in the habit of cranking up the volume to extreme levels during movies -- in fact, my wife hates the sound to be really loud, especially when our kids are watching with us, so I only turn it up loud when watching alone or with friends.


If it matters, I am replacing an old Sony sub which served its purpose for a while, but is too boomy and is not in SVS's league.
 

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With that room size, your listening levels and the fact that it is closed, I think the PB2+ would be overkill. Many just go straight to the PB2+ cause they just don't want that "what if" hanging in their head. The two subs recommended would do great, and since I would assume you'll tune the PB2-ISD to 20hz so you can playback any movie soundtrack without missing any lower bass material, performance will be close. I'd get the one that's more appealing asthetically and offers you the most placement options in your room so you don't get stuck keeping it in a bad stop because of it's size.
 

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I have a 16x22 room with 91/2 foot ceilings and it opens to a 14x20 kitchen.


Like you, I wanted excellent quality LFE that enhanced movies (a little bit of music too). Also like you, I didn't have requirements to generate ear bleeding or peel the paint off the wall. I briefly owned a Velo CHT-10, but the room swallowed it up and it was just muddy noise and had to operate at maximum gain to get even that.


Based on a significant amount of forum searching and looking at user reviews, I was considering the 20-39 PC+. (great site for reviews here - http://www.audioreview.com/Homecrx.aspx )


I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with Erik at SVS and he sold me DOWN to the 20-39 PCi. The review site I listed above supported that choice as well. I have had it for a couple of weeks now and it is excellent (not to mention less expensive than the PC+).


A critical part of this experience was calibrating my speakers / sub using the Avia disk and a Radio Shack SPL meter. This was worth the time (25 minutes) for the 5 speakers alone - a noticeable enhancement. The sub integrates nicely.


The gain on the 20-39 is set at about 40% of max. I can't imagine needing more than that based on what it is producing. By going through the calibration exercise, everything blends/works together and the volume control on the receiver handles any variations I want for particular movies.


With this setup, I popped in Fellowship of the Ring at a bit higher volume than I normally listen and the LFE was incredible, even with the size of the room and the additioanl kitchen dimensions. In a couple of places, my fireplace tools rattled, and they are sitting on a cement hearth. My CDs have exposed more than I knew they had and I am listening to more of them.


I now understand what tight, crisp, well-defined bass is. The interesting thing is that the sub isn't "loud", it just provides a full, rich platform for the rest of the soundstage. I used to just listen; at some point, the listening turns into "feeling" the bass.


I had no idea what I had been missing and I am thrilled with the PCi. Can't imagine needing more LFE capability unless I need to move the house off the foundation. I don't have the nerve to turn the setup way up.


Your mileage may vary, but a trip to that review site and a discussion with Erik may be helpful.
 

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With your stated listening habits, that room and the fact that it's enclosed, even a PB2-ISD seems like it would be overkill for you. A 25-31PCi with the 22hz mod would probably be perfect for you and save you a good bit of money. The 20-39 PC+ would surely do the job without any problems but it's likely more than you need for that room and the way you say you intend to use it.


For the record, I started out with one 25-31 PC+ in a room nearly double your size with permanent openings and was very impressed (after a good bit of placement tweaking). I now have two but got a deal on the second. I wouldn't have bothered getting one otherwise as I was pretty happy with the job the single one was doing.
 

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Smath,

If you go for a PB2-ISD and find that it is all that you wanted or ever needed, then that would be great. But what if you you got it and then find out that you wanted a little more of that addicting bass.... it is too much trouble, replacing a sub. The PB2-Plus will keep you happy for years with its performance....no question about that. Two things you want to ask yourself, 1. Is it too big for you (space) ? 2. Are you ok spending $300 more. If answers to both 1 and 2 are yes, I would strongly recommend that you settle for a PB2-Plus as there is very little chance that you may want more. If you are concerned about volume, you can always turn down the level on the sub.

Hope this helps,

-Jai
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Smath
My home theater is 2500 cubic feet (13.5 x 19.5 x 9.5) and can be fully closed.


Would the Pb-2+ be absolute overkill in my sized room?

It all depends on what you consider "overkill". As someone on this forum so eloquently stated, "one man's overkill is another man's headroom!".


I have a room that is similar in size to yours, and I just ordered a PB2+ to go along with my current pair of 20-39 CS+'s. I'll be running the CS's in stereo, and using the PB2+ strictly as an LFE sub.


Can't wait!
 

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Our room is 13 X 24.5 X 8. PB2+. Overkill, maybe. It shakes the upstairs. Treebeard walking is the most violent shaking. Love it. I DO look for plaster sifting down from the ceiling. Haven't had any yet! I really enjoy the bass effect, and I dial it way down for music, and it blends right in. I make a special trip down to the theater to listen to music, just for the extra bass. I'm VERY happy with the PB2+, but I'm sure that it would be "too much" bass for many people. I've learned that bass is very emotional - scary emotional. It must be some kind of innate response. Hope this helps. But size is really a factor with this one. It is a monster sub.
 

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There is no such thing as overkill, just over-budget. This is a money question.


If SVS is what you want, the PB-2+ is the model to have. A leseer model will give you...well......less! A B-4+ isn't a bad choice either. However, it is more $$.


Remember, upgrading will not only give more output but more extension (& headroom) as well and trust me, those frequencies that hover around 20 hz are important and add immensely to the HT experience.


My theater is approx 5000 cubic ft (17 X 30 X 9.5) and I have two subs pushed by a total of 5 KWatts and I feel it is just right.


You know what they say, go big or go home!
 

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Well, IMO there's no advantage to having kilowatts of power if you don't intend to use them. A more important criteria might be bass extension as opposed to over all spl. Any of the SVS options you are looking at are very efficient when it comes to pushing bass extension into the teens.


The best advice I can give is for you to calibrate your current system to Dolby reference standards. Then play a movie back and see just how close to reference levels you are willing to listen. If you are more than 7 db from reference then I think the PB2-ISD or the PC+ model would be more than sufficient. This would enable you to run either model a few dBs hot. If your taste is closer to reference then I'd go with the PB2+.
 

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Quote:
Would the Pb-2+ be absolute overkill in my sized room?
One mans overkill is another's headroom.


You can never have too much of that IMO, I have found that with great bass eventually you will hunger for more. At least from my experience and friends. i believe you will if you go with a PB2+ you will grow into it.
 

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KWatts of power are only drawn at the lowest of low frequencies as significant power is required to reproduce sub sonic levels. More power is always better.


With my subs, the bridged K2 is a recommended amplification (up to 2500 watt peaks). I can tell you that depsite the sub's efficiency of 100 db, there are times (soundtracks) where this level of power will [briefly] be required. THere are impedence changes (down to 2 ohms) at lower frequencies.
 

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There's no doubt that low frequencies requires more power but Smath indicated that they do not listen to extremely loud levels and it sounds like it's already louder than his wife prefers. For every 3db away from reference you reduce the required amp output considerably. So if you are listening in a medium sized room like Smaths at several dBs below reference there should be plenty of amp power to obtain usable subsonic output, even running the sub a little hot.


Now if Smath wants to run the sub 10 dBs hot and run close to reference then his application might require a more powerful sub than his current considerations allow.
 

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TRC, you are confusing output (loudness) with low frequency reproduction. You do not need to be louder to get lower frequencies. THese are seperate issues. You can still get lower bass and keep the output (volume) level as low as you like.


Output is the easy upgrade with the better sub but what Terence and myself are trying to sell is the increased headroom as well as lower frequency reproduction that comes with the better sub. Those are the primary advantages and are a seperate and unrelated relative to output (increased volume) in this conversation.
 

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Like TheBland says, if you are budget constrained you will be VERY happy with a 25-31PCi. I have that sub in a 15x17x9.5 room that is 1/3 fully opened and 1/3 half opened into the rest of my house and it performs very well, especially for movies. It's true that once you have a sub and you truely understand bass, you will want more and better bass.


I would spend the most you can afford without stretching yourself too thin or pissing off your wife. It never hurts to take some of the HT budget and apply it towards a little something for your wife. ;) Also, with the great value offered by many of the internet brands, you can afford to spend a little more on another component.


Have fun!
 

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"TRC, you are confusing output (loudness) with low frequency reproduction. You do not need to be louder to get lower frequencies"


I think you misunderstood my post, or I wasn't clear in either response.


The primary reason for going with the PB2+ over the other two choices would be to increase the overall dB level in the frequency curve. The PB2+ would not offer any significant extension capability over the others. The PB2+ and the PB2-ISD share the same native tune while the 2039+ is stock tuned lower.


So unless Smath wants to demo a few movie scenes at or near reference the extra power the PB2 + offers would go mostly unused since he already mentioned they don't watch movies at loud volumes. This is why I suggested Smath try and determine what dB volume below reference they watch movies to guesstimate whether he needs the additional headroom of the PB2+.
 
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