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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all.


I am trying to put together a "living room theater" for when me and the wife move into our new house. But in trying to put together a decent sounding system, I also have a "WAF" to contend with. So here's my question, which would be a better sounding set up?


FR Chan => Subwoofer 1 => Bookshelf Speaker

FL Chan => Subwoofer 1 => Bookshelf Speaker

Center Chan => Center Chan

RR Chan => Bookshelf Speaker

RL Chan => Bookshelf Speaker

LFE Chan => Subwoofer 2


**Crossover for Fronts handled by Subwoofer 1 **


Or


FR Chan => Floorstanding Speaker

FL Chan => Floorstanding Speaker

Center Chan => Center Chan

RR Chan => Bookshelf Speaker

RL Chan => Bookshelf Speaker

LFE Chan => Subwoofer


*** Setting Fronts for both setups to large.



The first set up gives me more WAF, but I think I can convince the wife the merits of the second set up after bugging her about it for a month or two.



The thing is is it worth the bother if the first layout will sound just as good?


Thanks.
 

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option 2 is the classic method to hook up speakers to a 5.1 DD a/v receiver, whether you have bookshelf or tower speakers. Any in many cases, just because you have tower configuration front L-R speakers, you may still need to set them to "small". If all your speakers are small, then the cross-over sends both the LFE effects and the lower frequency sounds for the remainder of the speakers to the subwoofer for processing.


I would suggest Option 2, only you can consider good bookshelf (or more precisely - non tower) speakers as a possibility right along with tower configuration speakers. I personally like tower configuration speakers for HT setups, because I'm an ol'phart who believes in "more cone area = fuller sound". But newer speakers like the SV Sound SCS-01(m) speakers or Ascend Acoustics CMT-340SE can easily substitute for most compact towers when paired with a good subwoofer.
 

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+1 all around
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter /forum/post/17039013


option 2 is the classic method to hook up speakers to a 5.1 DD a/v receiver, whether you have bookshelf or tower speakers. Any in many cases, just because you have tower configuration front L-R speakers, you may still need to set them to "small". If all your speakers are small, then the cross-over sends both the LFE effects and the lower frequency sounds for the remainder of the speakers to the subwoofer for processing.


I would suggest Option 2, only you can consider good bookshelf (or more precisely - non tower) speakers as a possibility right along with tower configuration speakers. I personally like tower configuration speakers for HT setups, because I'm an ol'phart who believes in "more cone area = fuller sound". But newer speakers like the SV Sound SCS-01(m) speakers or Ascend Acoustics CMT-340SE can easily substitute for most compact towers when paired with a good subwoofer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So does it boil down to more air movement = better sound?


I figured that with subwoofer 1 handling the crossover in the first configuration, it would give me the full sound I was looking for without the battle for WAF.


A follow up question: If I got good bookshelves, let's say Infinity Betas paired with a subwoofer, would they sound as good as Infinity towers costing about the same price?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedslyde /forum/post/17044148


So does it boil down to more air movement = better sound?

No. depending on your exact definitoin of "better sound"... but... no.
Quote:
I figured that with subwoofer 1 handling the crossover in the first configuration, it would give me the full sound I was looking for without the battle for WAF.

Why would SWMBO care about whether the xover was handled by sub 1 or something else?
Quote:
A follow up question: If I got good bookshelves, let's say Infinity Betas paired with a subwoofer, would they sound as good as Infinity towers costing about the same price?

There's nothing inherently "bad" about the bookshelf speaker. good bookshelf speakers properly set up with a sub will undoubtedly sound better than crappy towers properly set up with a sub... Personally I've never heard Infinities, so I won't comment on that.

A lot of answers will be "it depends" For instance, it might be easier to find towers that have lower -3db points than bookshelves, which can be dsirable for certain people, as long as their still clean down there, it allows you more wiggle room for your crossover point... but if htey extend down into the lower bass region, you have to worry about exciting modes in the room, the ideal place for not exciting these modes may be different than the ideal place for imaging, in which case, you would've been better off with smaller speakers, perhaps bookshelves...
 

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Then, on the other hand, the location at which you need to place the L/R speakers for best imaging is almost never the same location you need to place your low frequency speakers (aka sub or subs) for best base response in the room.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by glaufman /forum/post/17044248


Why would SWMBO care about whether the xover was handled by sub 1 or something else?

Well, the problem is the wife wants a behemoth of a bookshelf/curio cabinet on the wall where the screen will roll down in front of, so she's kind of put off by floorstanders since they'll ruin the look she's going for. I figure I can get some decent sealed or front ported bookshelves and put the subwoofer in a front corner behind a plant or something so it doesn't ruin the look she wants.


The reason I want full range fronts is because I figure 25-30% of the stuff we listen to will be music, and the rest will be movies.


But if you guys think it's worth it to get decent floorstanders, I'll keep working on SWMBO.
 

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Quote:
The reason I want full range fronts is because I figure 25-30% of the stuff we listen to will be music, and the rest will be movies.

Facts of life:


1. That doesn't change the facts of bass behavior in a room (my post above).

2. Your wife will win. Even if you get floorstanders, she will still win ... you just don't wanna know how (so get over it and find some nice bookshelf speakers).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine /forum/post/17044555


Then, on the other hand, the location at which you need to place the L/R speakers for best imaging is almost never the same location you need to place your low frequency speakers (aka sub or subs) for best base response in the room.

Thought I had said that, but guess I wasn't clear...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine /forum/post/17046337


2. Your wife will win. Even if you get floorstanders, she will still win ... you just don't wanna know how (so get over it and find some nice bookshelf speakers).

True. Oh, so very true. I can't tell you how true it is.



In case I wasn't explicit... there's nothing wrong with bookshelves for music. You can get great music out of bookshelves. Just make sure they're good bookshelves. And that they're set up properly. I built my system thinking music first, and HT a distant second in priority. I have towers. Good towers (IMO). But I'd rather have good bookshelves than lousy towers. Or domestic tension.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks to everyone for their input. I guess the next step is to shop for some good bookshelves. It should be an easier sell than the floorstanders I wanted. In fact I talked to the wife over breakfast about it and she likes the idea since it won't ruin the look she is going for.


Now the next step is to see how big a bookshelf speaker I can get away with.



Wish me luck.
 

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Good start... now really stick it her and find the best sounding ugliest bookshelves u can... and show her she could've had these bautiful towers instead!...


BTW, what is this "look" she's going for?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Up until now, the only living room theaters the wife has seen are ones where the Television dominates the room and the speakers stick out instead of matching the furniture.


What she wants is a living room that at first glance looks like the main focus is not the huge television that everyone feels compelled to gather around. I have to say I kind of agree with her on that point. What we disagree on though is that I think that nice speakers which look like a piece of furniture. And don't look out of place in the room. That's why she wants speakers which can be hidden or are so small she won't notice them.


That said, I'm thinking of going with Mirage Omnisats for the fronts and Nanosats for the surrounds. But that's a topic for another forum....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedslyde /forum/post/17055273


Up until now, the only living room theaters the wife has seen are ones where the Television dominates the room and the speakers stick out instead of matching the furniture.


What she wants is a living room that at first glance looks like the main focus is not the huge television that everyone feels compelled to gather around. I have to say I kind of agree with her on that point. What we disagree on though is that I think that nice speakers which look like a piece of furniture. And don't look out of place in the room. That's why she wants speakers which can be hidden or are so small she won't notice them.


That said, I'm thinking of going with Mirage Omnisats for the fronts and Nanosats for the surrounds. But that's a topic for another forum....

Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait Wait...

So at one point you were considering war to get the towers, and now you're completely giving up and considering Omnisats? Those aren't exactly what I (I won't speak for Dennis) meant by "bookshelves"...

Ok Ok, I'm calm, I'm calm...


Seriously, though, I'm not sure what I'm looking at is what you're talking about, but what are the woofer sizes? I like Klipsch and all, but (admittedly never having listened to these) I'm not so sure about these...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sorry, I "mis-spoke." I'm looking at the Mirage Omni 150s for the Fronts with the 5.5" woofer. For the surrounds I'm looking at the smaller nanosats for the surrounds.


I'm also looking at the Energy CB-10s as well. I'm gonna put a post in the Speakers section when I get ready. For now I'm kinda just window shopping.



Oh and it may seem like I'm caving really easily, but the new place is supposed to have an unfinished 3rd floor which the wife is letting me do with as I please a few years down the line.
 

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I would not be putting an "omnipolar" speaker in a cabinet, or on a bookshelf. They may be called "book shelf speakers" due to their size and weight; but, they most certainly are not bookshelf in the sense you can actually put them on a bookshelf. Bad choice. Good news ... one less speaker to consider.
 
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