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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry, my previous topic has been pulled because I posted some pricing information. So I would have to repost my questions again.


I would like to buy a brand new subj with warranty but I will not have an option to return it and see the demo.


So, I have a few questions for owners or those who already saw it in action. Perhaps, you can comment on some of them?


1. Can I comfortably use 12HT as an alternative to computer monitor?

2. Do I have to keep complete darkness in a room as I have to with low-end presentation projectors?

3. What is the overall image quality in comparison to plasma and projection tvs? Is it as bad as projection tvs or as good as plasma?

4. How can I set up a non-standard resolution 1366x768 on my PC?

5. Is it possible to transfer desktop or a part of the desktop from PC without need in additional digital scaling (bypass Sony built-in scaler) ?

6. What is the maximum screen size for which screen-door is not noticeable

7. What screen brand would you recommend for 12HT?

8. Would you recommend some alternative to this projector (in the same price range)


Thanks in advance!
 

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I've never seen a 12HT, nor even one on TV, but as far as LCD technology of this generation in general is concerned:


1) Sure. Remember you have to replace the bulb though. I thought my digital PJ made a better computer monitor than my regular computer monitor!


2) No, but tape a piece of white paper to the wall. See how black that paper is? That's the lowest black level you're going to get. If the room isn't black, the "black levels" will not be black, although with digital projection they won't be anyway. Of course you can use special screens to help offset this problem. Perceived contrast will help though, since the brighter portions of the image will make the darker ones look more dark than they really are.


3) My guess would be that it's better than both.


4) Use powerstrip (a program you can find using google).


5) Good question.... presumably so, as they've found ways to do it with the other recent Sony PJ's.


6) Screen door is a function of how close you sit to the screen, not screen size. You'll probably need to sit at least 1.5x the screen width back to minimize the effect, and if you have good vision, you may have to sit 2x screen width back to not see it.


7) How much do you want to spend on the screen? Da-Lite = $1000.


8) The Epson TW100 (new version) looks nice on paper, haven't seen one yet to figure out if they fixed the shadow detail problems. The NEC HT1000, if you want to move over to DLP, should be fantastic if you don't have a rainbow problem. For a bit more you can get the similar but brighter Sanyo PLV-70.


That's my $0.02.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by wildfire99
Remember you have to replace the bulb though. I thought my digital PJ made a better computer monitor than my regular computer monitor!
Thank you for the feedback!

Why would I need to do that on brand new product. To make it brighter?

And what bulb?

Quote:


3) My guess would be that it's better than both.
Just hard to believe that projected image can be better than on plasma TVs. But if it is really true then no doubt plasma does not cost its money.

Quote:


4) Use powerstrip (a program you can find using google).
Thanks, I played a little with powerstrip and managed to set up this resolution.

Quote:


7) How much do you want to spend on the screen? Da-Lite = $1000.
The greater the image quality, the more I want to spend but $1000 seems too much. Is this sheet of plastic made of gold or something?

Quote:


8) The Epson TW100 (new version) looks nice on paper, haven't seen one yet to figure out if they fixed the shadow detail problems.
TW100 has much lower brightness and contrast on specs

Quote:


The NEC HT1000, if you want to move over to DLP, should be fantastic if you don't have a rainbow problem.
NEC HT1000 is just 1024 and 4:3 native.

I will not even consider only by that reason.

Quote:


For a bit more you can get the similar but brighter Sanyo PLV-70.
Is it just brighter than 12HT. Does it have some other pros and contras?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by stain
NEC HT1000 is just 1024 and 4:3 native.

I will not even consider only by that reason.
Are you saying that you would choose the lower image quality as long as the specs are better? :)


I'm not trying to start a war here, but from what I've seen of these projectors (and read) I sure wouldn't pick the 12HT when I could get a HT1000. I'm not particularly prone to rainbows, though. I should mention that I may not have seen the 12HT at CEDIA, but know that I saw all of the other major LCDs there, along with the similar products in Sony's booth. I didn't hear good things about the 12HT at CEDIA from people who had actually sat through their demo. I also had a TW100 for a day.


Also, I don't think that wildfire99 meant that you have to change the bulb when you get the projector. Just that if you spend a lot of time on the computer and use it as your monitor, you will have to figure in the expense of replacing the bulb.


--Darin
 

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IMHO, LCDs just can't do it anymore.

If you're not sensitive to rainbows, go for a DLP.

Quote:
NEC HT1000 is just 1024 and 4:3 native.
Indeed. But with a ISCO II, it'll just look like a widescreen. :D And picture quality should be considerably better than the Sony.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by ShePearl
IMHO, LCDs just can't do it anymore.

But with a ISCO II, it'll just look like a widescreen. :D And picture quality should be considerably better than the Sony.
I just can't accept 1024 as a monitor resolution. I need a PJ for dvd, home video and work. I am planning to buy this consumer camera (max 1280 x 720) when it will be available:
http://www.abcdv.com/article/articleview/18/1/61/


Sorry, but it's just not for HT1000.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ShePearl
IMHO, LCDs just can't do it anymore.
Curious, what was the environment like when you saw the 12HT in action? Was it in a light-control room? What screen?


I only asked, because I always hated LCD until I got an accidental glimpse of the 12HT in an appropriate environment. I was very impressed.
 

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Wanman,


I haven't actually seen 12HT. My opinion was based on Sony 11HT, and Sharp z9000 DLP. I currently own them both. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by ShePearl
That's the camera I've planned to get for Christmas. :)


Are you going to record at 720 x 480?


Or at 1280 x 720 and then watch your video with significantly downgraded resolution on your HT1000?
 

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stain,


where did you get the idea that I had (or plan to buy) the NEC ? :confused:

I'm indeed searching for a HD2 DLP to replace my current PJs, but it'll be either Marantz or Sim2. Not NEC HT1000.
 

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Well, I'll put in my 2 cents. I haven't seen the 12HT, so I can't help you there. The MLA, from all accounts of those who have seen LCD's with and without, makes a difference in screendoor effect. My husband noticed a difference when he finally saw a Sharp LCD.


The PLV-70 has remote control for: zoom, focus, lens shift, aspect ratio, keystone (if you need it), and inputs. We use the zoom and lens shift a lot since we are multi-use people. The internal scaler and deinterlacer is topnotch and doesn't require another device. I don't know how the Sony matches this. The difference in brightness is huge, and I think it makes for a wonderful picture. However, the price difference may be more important for you than these other considerations. Good luck in your decision!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by ShePearl
stain,


where did you get the idea that I had (or plan to buy) the NEC ? :confused:

I'm indeed searching for a HD2 DLP to replace my current PJs, but it'll be either Marantz or Sim2. Not NEC HT1000.
Sorry, I got confused by the fact that you wrote a couple of words in defence of HT1000.

BTW, what is the price difference between HT300+ and HT12? (Hope that price diff. info is allowed on this forum... ;) )
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by WanMan
stain, think 2-for-1 with the idea of getting two 12HT's for the price of one HT300+.
Ouch! :eek:


Funny thing is that I've opened this topic to ask for help from 12HT observers and only one has seen it so far, fortunately observation was positive ;)
 

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Stain,


I saw the 12HT at CEDIA in Sony's booth. I wrote comments on it right after the show.


It was rather disappointing, actually. Of course, there were a lot to compare it to, and I felt that the new Marantz and the new JVC SX21 had a lot of WOW factor over the 12HT. Then again, they also have a bit more of a WOW factor to their price tags.


The 12HT was grainy with fixed pattern noise, and the black level was poor, even with their hand-picked high def. images that they were showing. They had set-up with a relatively small 80" wide screen, and had the seating abnormally far back from it, yet the artifacts were still visible.


A show set-up isn't everything, but compared to other stuff at the show, it was certainly not a "hit" of the show.
 

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As far as the camera is concerned.


If it is using a single 1 Megpixel CCD imager than that is not enough to do 720p.


Single CCD video cameras are similar to typical CCD single shot cameras and a 1 Megapixel camera can't create a good 1280*720 image. It has to do with the -


RGRG

GBGB

RGRG

GBGB


- Beyer style pixel array.


The analysis is rather complex but suffice it to say, whatever resolution you are trying to create - in a single CCD camera you are going to need at LEAST twice that number of pixels. So for 720p which is about 1 million pixels you are going to need at LEAST a 2 megapixel CCD imager to faithfully reproduce such an image


Now if the camera has three seperate 1 megapixel imagers for R,G, and B that would work.


But this camera appears to only have one 1 megapixel imager and that's not good enough 720p.


-Mr. Wigggles
 

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I saw the 12HT on a trade show recently, and must confirm the observations Mark Hunter made. Even at a resolution this high, screen door was widely visible, even at a distance of appr. 2x screen size. The black level was totally unacceptable and actually did not look much better than on my old Epson 200:1 SVGA projector. LCD has some mayor issues in this department!


The colors were nice, though.


I have just purchased the HT-1000, and have to say that most of the issues mentioned on the 12HT is resolved. The only negative I have found so far with this unit are rainbows, but they only appear every once in a while...


When it comes to resolution, I believe it is more important to eliminate screendoor than to increase the resolution. The HT-1000 has very little screendoor, even at 1.3x viewing distance. You should see Gladiator through my Radeon HTPC!!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MrWigggles
As far as the camera is concerned.


If it is using a single 1 Megpixel CCD imager than that is not enough to do 720p.


Single CCD video cameras are similar to typical CCD single shot cameras and a 1 Megapixel camera can't create a good 1280*720 image. It has to do with the -


RGRG

GBGB

RGRG

GBGB


- Beyer style pixel array.


The analysis is rather complex but suffice it to say, whatever resolution you are trying to create - in a single CCD camera you are going to need at LEAST twice that number of pixels. So for 720p which is about 1 million pixels you are going to need at LEAST a 2 megapixel CCD imager to faithfully reproduce such an image


Now if the camera has three seperate 1 megapixel imagers for R,G, and B that would work.


But this camera appears to only have one 1 megapixel imager and that's not good enough 720p.


-Mr. Wigggles
So...am I right in assuming that this gives us upscaled/interpolated 720p if it has one megapixel CCD ?? If this is the case, I'll pass on this one. rather disappointing. :(
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Eivind Lygren
I saw the 12HT on a trade show recently, and must confirm the observations Mark Hunter made. Even at a resolution this high, screen door was widely visible, even at a distance of appr. 2x screen size. The black level was totally unacceptable and actually did not look much better than on my old Epson 200:1 SVGA projector. LCD has some mayor issues in this department!
I just saw one on display yesterday and it did not look very good. Screen door was very apparent and the image was not very clear or sharp. I was surprised since this was their premeir HT showroom and figured they had not calibrated it properly, so I asked the sales person. He said that it was calibrated properly and thought it looked quite good himself.


I respectfully left after that.
 
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