Why are samsung DLP RPTV's so expensive?
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To me the Samsung DLPs are a steal. I have a friend who bought a 50 inch plasma for $8000 , I bought my Samsung HLN507W for $3499.00. Both of us have compared the two picture qualities and the DLP picture looks just as good (with HDTV/Bravo D1 DVD player). Plus you do not have to worry about burn in - great for gaming and a HUGE computer monitor 
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Samsunp DLPs a bad deal - I think not !
Jeff
.Samsunp DLPs a bad deal
- I think not !Jeff
Jmo that 2 years from now a dlp set will be 40-50% cheaper.
I've been close twice to buying, even made an offer when haggling on price on the 56".
But these factors have put me back in a waiting mode.
High Defn cable is 6 months away.
Stand Defn picture is worse than the TV I currently have.
Design improvements are on the way.
Prices should fall with more competition.
Technology will improve.
and most importantly,
NASCAR still is not televising in high defn yet anyway!
I've been close twice to buying, even made an offer when haggling on price on the 56".
But these factors have put me back in a waiting mode.
High Defn cable is 6 months away.
Stand Defn picture is worse than the TV I currently have.
Design improvements are on the way.
Prices should fall with more competition.
Technology will improve.
and most importantly,
NASCAR still is not televising in high defn yet anyway!
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538 Posts
Gateway has a pretty cheap 56" DLP for sale on Amazon.
This is actually one area I can give information, instead of ask for it!
Texas Instruments and a few other companies and their fabs currently make the DLP processors. As with any relatively new product, initial yields are low. In addition, alot of the excess capacity from 12-18 months ago has been "snapped up" by the rebound in capacity utilization for semiconductor/chip production.
Bottom Line: China and some Far East fab installers are trying to expand production for these kinds of chips. But it was easier and more profitable of them to take care of existing, older/developed technology once technology spending snapped back last year. Think of General Motors with plenty of auto capacity, and they can either expand production of hard-to-produce, limited quantity new model Corvette's or mass expansion of older model regular sedans and trucks. It's easier to go for the latter, since that was what flowing when demand initially dropped.
I think the 3rd generation of DLP chips/sets later this year and expanded production by TI and other licensee should drive down the demand. It's a tough chip to manufacture, but I remember when 64-bit DRAM's were $30-$50 a chip. A few years later, they were 1/4th that amount. Today, top of the line DRAM's go for $4.00, give or take.
Texas Instruments and a few other companies and their fabs currently make the DLP processors. As with any relatively new product, initial yields are low. In addition, alot of the excess capacity from 12-18 months ago has been "snapped up" by the rebound in capacity utilization for semiconductor/chip production.
Bottom Line: China and some Far East fab installers are trying to expand production for these kinds of chips. But it was easier and more profitable of them to take care of existing, older/developed technology once technology spending snapped back last year. Think of General Motors with plenty of auto capacity, and they can either expand production of hard-to-produce, limited quantity new model Corvette's or mass expansion of older model regular sedans and trucks. It's easier to go for the latter, since that was what flowing when demand initially dropped.
I think the 3rd generation of DLP chips/sets later this year and expanded production by TI and other licensee should drive down the demand. It's a tough chip to manufacture, but I remember when 64-bit DRAM's were $30-$50 a chip. A few years later, they were 1/4th that amount. Today, top of the line DRAM's go for $4.00, give or take.
I've been following the price points of Samsung DLPs for some time. Today I googgled the 467, and noticed that Amazon had it listed for sale. Going to Amazon, I was shocked to see the 407, 467, 507, 567 listed for HUNDREDS less than Circuit City, Tweeter, or many other legit vendors. Granted, they list some as not in stock yet, but the prices are so low, and no tax either, and free shipping for some, it seems that one could use them to price match with other vendors. Anybody know why the prices are so low?
"i thought i saw something about the RCA 56" being $1000 cheaper than the Samsung 56". "
I don't think there is an RCA 56" DLP.
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"I think the 3rd generation of DLP chips/sets later this year and expanded production by TI and other licensee should drive down the demand."
There are licensees? Can you show me some information to back up that claim?
"As with any relatively new product, initial yields are low"
The DMD is just not a new product. The yields have been low for years. It's hard to make, obviously.
I don't think there is an RCA 56" DLP.
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"I think the 3rd generation of DLP chips/sets later this year and expanded production by TI and other licensee should drive down the demand."
There are licensees? Can you show me some information to back up that claim?
"As with any relatively new product, initial yields are low"
The DMD is just not a new product. The yields have been low for years. It's hard to make, obviously.
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27,308 Posts
Quote:
There is no 56" RCA. If you get a good deal on a 50" HLN507 or HLN5065 it would be two or three hundred more than a average deal on a 50" RCA.
The 56" Gateway is a lot cheaper (with the sale going on now) than the 56" HLN567, but returning a Gateway DLP is more complicated and expensive. Also, my wife wouldn't let me bring one into the house.
I once returned a Laptop to Dell unopened. It was stolen from the FedEx facility in Austin TX. and it took over six months for FedEx to cut a check. FedEx made a special effort to delay payment as long as possible. If you buy from Gateway and anything goes wrong while the shipping company is returning the set your money will be tied up until the case is settled. You will be the one jumping through hoops.
| Originally posted by Hohlraum i thought i saw something about the RCA 56" being $1000 cheaper than the Samsung 56". Thats pretty considerable. Granted its not as nice of a set. |
The 56" Gateway is a lot cheaper (with the sale going on now) than the 56" HLN567, but returning a Gateway DLP is more complicated and expensive. Also, my wife wouldn't let me bring one into the house.
I once returned a Laptop to Dell unopened. It was stolen from the FedEx facility in Austin TX. and it took over six months for FedEx to cut a check. FedEx made a special effort to delay payment as long as possible. If you buy from Gateway and anything goes wrong while the shipping company is returning the set your money will be tied up until the case is settled. You will be the one jumping through hoops.
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123 Posts
Rogo,
This link here: TI Increases DLP(TM) Production Capacity in Anticipation of Robust Market Growth appears to indicate that TI is licensing its DMD manufacturing to increase production capacity. Whether or not that is for the 'hard part' of the manufacturing process, or supporting steps, I don't know. Clearly, though, TI is trying to keep pace with demand, and I'm guessing the HD3 chips are designed to restore profit margins and/or keep pace with any LCOS competition (or EDTV plasma at 42").
-RandomDave
This link here: TI Increases DLP(TM) Production Capacity in Anticipation of Robust Market Growth appears to indicate that TI is licensing its DMD manufacturing to increase production capacity. Whether or not that is for the 'hard part' of the manufacturing process, or supporting steps, I don't know. Clearly, though, TI is trying to keep pace with demand, and I'm guessing the HD3 chips are designed to restore profit margins and/or keep pace with any LCOS competition (or EDTV plasma at 42").
-RandomDave
Thanks a lot.
The "superstructure" step is the hard part and they are clearly continue to "own" that in-house completely. It's their competitive edge and I'm quite sure they don't even trust their partners with seeing it.
The HD3 is clearly about cost reduction through a smaller chip size vs. HD2. I am not at all opposed to that -- especially beceause it seems to help screendoor / visible-pixel issues.
You are right, that ED plasma at 42" is also an issue. Samsung dropped out of the 43" size because they wanted to drive the price of their entry set down close to $3K (it's $3199 for the new 46"), but still make money. I'm thinking that if they stuck with 43", they have had to go to $2899 or so and didn't like the margins down there.
I doubt they are worried yet about LCOS given it's only Philips and a $20K Mitsubishi. But the threat is real and it seems likely that 1920 x 1080 LCOS from someone will eventually be quite inexpensive to both make and sell...
How small were the announced Toshiba's running down to? And what of Panasonic? I wonder if the truth is that right now you can't really make money at small sizes with DLP?
Mark
The "superstructure" step is the hard part and they are clearly continue to "own" that in-house completely. It's their competitive edge and I'm quite sure they don't even trust their partners with seeing it.
The HD3 is clearly about cost reduction through a smaller chip size vs. HD2. I am not at all opposed to that -- especially beceause it seems to help screendoor / visible-pixel issues.
You are right, that ED plasma at 42" is also an issue. Samsung dropped out of the 43" size because they wanted to drive the price of their entry set down close to $3K (it's $3199 for the new 46"), but still make money. I'm thinking that if they stuck with 43", they have had to go to $2899 or so and didn't like the margins down there.
I doubt they are worried yet about LCOS given it's only Philips and a $20K Mitsubishi. But the threat is real and it seems likely that 1920 x 1080 LCOS from someone will eventually be quite inexpensive to both make and sell...
How small were the announced Toshiba's running down to? And what of Panasonic? I wonder if the truth is that right now you can't really make money at small sizes with DLP?
Mark
rogo, can you sum up what is the inherent advantage (cost, quality) of LCoS vs. DLP & LCD?
Even if the technical reasons pan out , isn't it likely that production delays, etc will delay any real super-cheap, mass-produced LCoS threat for a few more years?
Even if the technical reasons pan out , isn't it likely that production delays, etc will delay any real super-cheap, mass-produced LCoS threat for a few more years?
"Even if the technical reasons pan out , isn't it likely that production delays, etc will delay any real super-cheap, mass-produced LCoS threat for a few more years?"
Not necessarily. No one so far has produced a mass-produceable LCOS, but there are at least 5 companies trying. And one of them is awfully good at making chips. Another is efforting to reduce the LC-layer thickness, which might make it easier to produce them, etc. etc. etc.
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"I thought Lcos still burned in and had degradation issues. "
Only in mythology, not in reality.
Mark
Not necessarily. No one so far has produced a mass-produceable LCOS, but there are at least 5 companies trying. And one of them is awfully good at making chips. Another is efforting to reduce the LC-layer thickness, which might make it easier to produce them, etc. etc. etc.
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"I thought Lcos still burned in and had degradation issues. "
Only in mythology, not in reality.
Mark
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