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Why are so many primetime scenes out of focus?

2533 Views 23 Replies 18 Participants Last post by scowl, May 15, 2006

summit3907

Discussion Starter · May 13, 2006

lately, i have noticed that many scenes featuring closeups of people's faces on primetime HD shows are out of focus. often, the ears or hair are crisp and clear, but the front of the face is totally out of focus. it seems that directors really like to use the shallow depth of field effect for these shots, which is fine, but that effect requires that the focus be dead on to be effective. too often, that is not the case.

i know very little about shooting tv shows, but have some experience in still photography. if i had to guess, i suppose the equivalents of autofocus and TTL focus/exposure previews are not available on tv cameras. i just don't understand how a cameraperson would intentionally focus on the wrong part of a face when the original takes are done. also, since they use a depth of field of only a few inches, if the actor moves slightly it will be out of focus. there doesn't seem to be any realtime refocusing in these scenes - if an actor rocks back and forth, the focus seems static and doens't follow their eyes. by the time the scenes get to the editor, it is too late.

i see this problem frequently with csi and csi miami, with dim light and backlit scenes, but it is present in most filmed dramas. one of the few that is consistantly in focus is the office, but perhaps due to its more controlled lighting conditions and less filmlike effect, they can afford a larger depth of field so focus is not as much of a problem.

i love the details that HD offers, but it really irks me when i am drawn to an actor's ears or actress's hair instead of their face because of focus problems. i just don't understand technically why this happens so much. any insights from those with more technical understanding of the filming process?

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1 - 20 of 24 Posts

Star56

· #2 · May 13, 2006

It is widely speculated that some of this is by design, to obscure the signs of aging. I have seen shots with two actors sitting across a table...the male face is sharp as a tack...the female face is buried in a soft haze....the shot flips from sharp to haze...sharp to haze....

This has to be preplanned.

kucharsk

· #3 · May 13, 2006

Yep - notably CSI: has done this in the past with closeups of Marg Helgenberger.

CountZero75

· #4 · May 13, 2006

I noticed this on the last few episodes of West Wing as well. I bitched about this on my blog .

Kram Sacul

· #5 · May 13, 2006

Sometimes HD is much less forgiving of focus problems than SD. You see this in a lot of movies as well where the focus point is just slightly off.

MickeyDora

· #6 · May 13, 2006

Has anyone else noticed the digital touch-ups (kinda like Photoshoping) that they have been using this season on CSI - Miami for Emily Procter around her eyes. You can really see it on some scenes and others it is barrely noticeable.

tkmedia2

· #7 · May 13, 2006

I never used any digital HD cameras so have no knowledge in that. I worked on shows that do 35mm and 16mm formats ages ago. Mostly loading film, and misc things.

Quote:

, i suppose the equivalents of autofocus and TTL focus/exposure previews are not available on tv cameras. i just don't understand how a cameraperson would intentionally focus on the wrong part of a face when the original takes are done.

sometimes but rarely they are available, depending on camera systems used for certain scenes. For a lot of shows and movies focus pullers dont normally have the ability to see the focus of the image. Normally cameraman frames the image. If movement is needed in a stedicam type shot like a quick paan, the focus guy has to remember both settings. If the focus operator, camera operator or actor are off a bit it will affect focus.

A lot of times even if the problem is noticed it might be really hard to fix as shooting time is very precious. i used to be on a hour show (when they were 50 minutes wo commericials) and we had to shoot, edit and finish a episode in 6 days! abut 12-16hours a day!

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videojanitor

· #8 · May 13, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkmedia2
For a lot of shows and movies focus pullers dont normally have the ability to see the focus of the image. Normally cameraman frames the image. If movement is needed in a stedicam type shot like a quick paan, the focus guy has to remember both settings. If the focus operator, camera operator or actor are off a bit it will affect focus.

I used to know a guy who was a pretty big-time cinematographer -- he worked on major Hollywood films, including on of the Batman movies. I will always remember the way he described the job of the focus puller. He told me "He is paid to be the best guesser in the world ... if he guesses wrong, he is fired."

Unless things have changed, most people would probably be surprised to find out that the person doing the focusing cannot SEE the results of what they are doing. From what he told me at the time, the focus was set either by measuring the distance from the lens before the shot and then remembering the setting(s), or by visually judging the distance (that's where the guessing comes in).

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NetworkTV

· #9 · May 13, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by videojanitor
I used to know a guy who was a pretty big-time cinematographer -- he worked on major Hollywood films, including on of the Batman movies. I will always remember the way he described the job of the focus puller. He told me "He is paid to be the best guesser in the world ... if he guesses wrong, he is fired."

Unless things have changed, most people would probably be surprised to find out that the person doing the focusing cannot SEE the results of what they are doing. From what he told me at the time, the focus was set either by measuring the distance from the lens before the shot and then remembering the setting(s), or by visually judging the distance (that's where the guessing comes in).

Of course, some use the old trick of placing pieces of tape on the lense barrel to mark each end of a rack focus so they don't have to remember the settings - especially when a second take is necessary.

scowl

· #10 · May 13, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetworkTV
Of course, some use the old trick of placing pieces of tape on the lense barrel to mark each end of a rack focus so they don't have to remember the settings - especially when a second take is necessary.

I have pieces of tape on a old manual focus 135mm lens I used to shoot basketball with. One piece of tape says "basket". The other says "free throw line". I always knew I'd get a couple of things in focus in every game.

NetworkTV

· #11 · May 13, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by scowl
I have pieces of tape on a old manual focus 135mm lens I used to shoot basketball with. One piece of tape says "basket". The other says "free throw line". I always knew I'd get a couple of things in focus in every game.

I did that too - only I was always on the "free throw" setting for the baskets and hitting on cheerleaders during the free throws...

Mac The Knife

· #12 · May 13, 2006

Another part of the problem is the popularity of long lenses instead of wide lenses.

I've seen shots where the lens choice was so extreme that the depth of focus so small that when the actor was standing at an 45 degree angle to the camera, his face was in focus, but his shoulders were out of focus.

HiDef Bob

· #13 · May 13, 2006

It is my understanding that they use soft focus filters when shooting closeups of some actors ... it is a vanity thing!

tkmedia2

· #14 · May 14, 2006

That's why super long continuous tracking shots with multiple focus settings with stedicam type movement and tv show time is so hard. I forgot what it was for, but I was amazed! Focus was very well done. I remember a shot only took 30minutes to set up but the crew was so good at it they were able to get abt 2 minute continuous shot with multiple different focus settings. The scene started at the end of a conversation in a car was going up some stairs of a 3 story building stopping a bit on each floor, multiple focus settings on actors, and focus on following blood trail on floor and the last floor a dead body. But I remember that the bad news was that during editing the shot had to be trimed into multiple shots

Targus

· #15 · May 14, 2006

Quote:

Unless things have changed, most people would probably be surprised to find out that the person doing the focusing cannot SEE the results of what they are doing

It's film, it need to be processed before you can see it. Why does this surprise people?

mdv

· #16 · May 14, 2006

I always assumed that a modern film camera would have a live preview of what was going on the film.

Mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targus
It's film, it need to be processed before you can see it. Why does this surprise people?

Ken Ross

· #17 · May 14, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kram Sacul
Sometimes HD is much less forgiving of focus problems than SD. You see this in a lot of movies as well where the focus point is just slightly off.

I honestly believe that, at times, it is unintentional. The reason I say this is I've seen one framed shot in perfect focus and they cut away and come back to the SAME shot and now it's slighty out of focus. Rushed prodcution demands? Poor editing? I don't know, but it's there for all to see.

scowl

· #18 · May 14, 2006

My guess is that since they take a zillion takes of everything, it's not easy for an actor to hit his mark every time on a zillion takes. If the zillionth take happens to be the best take, they'll choose that one even if it is slightly out of focus....because it's television and only a handful of HDTV viewers will notice. Fewer will care.

Cameras do have video assists but they usually have small eight-inch monitors so they're not very good for judging focus.

NetworkTV

· #19 · May 14, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by scowl
Cameras do have video assists but they usually have small eight-inch monitors so they're not very good for judging focus.

Not to mention the flicker and poor image quality of them make determining focus almost impossible. It still doesn't allow the focus puller to see what's going on since there usually isn't any place for one to be placed where he/she can see it. Those monitors are really only good for providing a preview of framing.

tokerblue

· #20 · May 15, 2006

I noticed this A LOT during Boston Legal. When William Shatner is on, you can see every line and wrinkle, but when Candice Bergen is on, there is a much softer focus.

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

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