Ok, I just don't understand this. Can someone explain this to me. I don't get how if all epson projectors or any projector for that matter is made with the same exact parts and built the exact same way how is it that each individual projector will not calibrate the same? I just don't understand how that is possible.
Why can't my settings work for others?
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...70&postcount=1
"Electronic component tolerances used in consumer TVs and source components are very loose and imprecise (+/- 10% or worse). Because these tolerances are so imprecise, two samples of TV can come off the same assembly line and require very different picture settings to look near the same."
"Electronic component tolerances used in consumer TVs and source components are very loose and imprecise (+/- 10% or worse). Because these tolerances are so imprecise, two samples of TV can come off the same assembly line and require very different picture settings to look near the same."
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Let's see, where to begin
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Different screens (size and material)
Parts have a tolerance of around +/- 10%. Therefore, imagine everyone's parts being different than yours by +/- 10% in every control where a single click can make all the difference. PJ's and all other equipment are not made to military specs.
Different source components can make a HUGE difference.
Different room conditions
The list goes on and on. Hope this helps!
![]()
Let's see, where to begin
Different screens (size and material)
Parts have a tolerance of around +/- 10%. Therefore, imagine everyone's parts being different than yours by +/- 10% in every control where a single click can make all the difference. PJ's and all other equipment are not made to military specs.
Different source components can make a HUGE difference.
Different room conditions
The list goes on and on. Hope this helps!
Different environments affect image quality. Varying parameters like different colored walls, floors, ceilings, furniture, different lighting, screen size and distance can all impact perceived contrast and color drastically.
Also, this changes more as the bulb age.
Therefore, every projector needs to be calibrated for the specific environment it is in.
Different environments affect image quality. Varying parameters like different colored walls, floors, ceilings, furniture, different lighting, screen size and distance can all impact perceived contrast and color drastically.
Also, this changes more as the bulb age.
Therefore, every projector needs to be calibrated for the specific environment it is in.
I understood the source components and room conditions, but just didn't think that the components that made up the projector could have that much of a different result. So in other words at the factory all they do is slap the components together and don't bother to tune it. Is that about right?
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You got it.
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Each lamp varies considerably even over it's own lifetime or if you change the lamp power (mine was completely different in high power, with more red for example). Add to this the tolerances in the other components, plus the room, then you see why each projector has to be calibrated in situ. Even getting it done at say 200 hours won't mean it will stay calibrated for the rest of it's life, plus if you change the lamp then it could be completely different. With JVCs like mine, the gamma tends to flatten/lower over time making the image look flat, so detailed adjustments are needed to set it right again.
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makes a compelling argument for getting your own calibration equipment and calibrating as many times as needed...
makes a compelling argument for getting your own calibration equipment and calibrating as many times as needed...
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Hi,
I just wonder what the manufactures tolerance are when it comes to the display panel themselves?
Plasma - Phosphor tolerances
LCD - Filter tolerances, backlight tolerances
LED - Filter, backlight tolerances
Are they within 20%?
I just wonder what the manufactures tolerance are when it comes to the display panel themselves?
Plasma - Phosphor tolerances
LCD - Filter tolerances, backlight tolerances
LED - Filter, backlight tolerances
Are they within 20%?
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An Epson dealer training I attended included stating their official panel alignment tolerance for their '3LCD' light engines. They pass chip alignment errors as great as +/- an entire pixel between the red, green, and blue imagers. Epson licenses the use of their light engines and technology to all the other companies that feature the '3LCD' logo.
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Quote:
How about if you just ask them directly and report back to us what they tell you? Why wonder when you can at least try to get the information from the horse's mouth? For me, the issue is really whether or not loose tolerances can be compensated for in the calibration process. Tight tolerances cost a lot more money to manufacture. I was reading about a grade 1 broadcast monitor recently that cost almost $8k for a 17" LCD. Even professional monitors require periodic calibration, and they don't copy settings from other displays.
Originally Posted by delphiplasma  Hi, I just wonder what the manufactures tolerance are when it comes to the display panel themselves? Plasma - Phosphor tolerances LCD - Filter tolerances, backlight tolerances LED - Filter, backlight tolerances Are they within 20%? |
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Understand that the manufacturer pays a fee and submits a sample or samples to THX for testing. If it passes, they get to put the THX logo on the product. THX does not publish the specific things it tests for in most cases, only general statements about its goals. There are some things about a factory calibration (if it had to be done for the THX cert) that simply won't be valid once the product is installed. For instance, a THX receiver's amps could be level-matched at the factory so they are all putting out the same power at reference level. Once in the installed location, differences in speaker placement, type, and aiming all mean that the levels have to be rebalanced. The same goes for your projector. Its installed environment has a huge effect on its performance and the display must be calibrated or at least checked for it.
The THX settings on displays, from what I've seen and read, serve as a quick way to change from daytime to nighttime viewing settings. They still should be calibrated for best results in the installed environment.
Understand that the manufacturer pays a fee and submits a sample or samples to THX for testing. If it passes, they get to put the THX logo on the product. THX does not publish the specific things it tests for in most cases, only general statements about its goals. There are some things about a factory calibration (if it had to be done for the THX cert) that simply won't be valid once the product is installed. For instance, a THX receiver's amps could be level-matched at the factory so they are all putting out the same power at reference level. Once in the installed location, differences in speaker placement, type, and aiming all mean that the levels have to be rebalanced. The same goes for your projector. Its installed environment has a huge effect on its performance and the display must be calibrated or at least checked for it.
The THX settings on displays, from what I've seen and read, serve as a quick way to change from daytime to nighttime viewing settings. They still should be calibrated for best results in the installed environment.
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Why the drama? Of course they don't just "throw the parts together." How silly. Every manufacturer has their own internal methods for quality control, with their own tolerances for what they consider sales worthy performance. THX provides a consulting service to help design, and then verify, compliance with a substantial list of performance criteria. The pre-installed and factory adjusted THX settings are just another picture mode preset. It is the factory preset that will give the best results out of the box. As others have said, additional alignment will be needed once it's installed in the system, to compensate for all the variables listed.
Why the drama? Of course they don't just "throw the parts together." How silly. Every manufacturer has their own internal methods for quality control, with their own tolerances for what they consider sales worthy performance. THX provides a consulting service to help design, and then verify, compliance with a substantial list of performance criteria. The pre-installed and factory adjusted THX settings are just another picture mode preset. It is the factory preset that will give the best results out of the box. As others have said, additional alignment will be needed once it's installed in the system, to compensate for all the variables listed.
No drama, just a simple question. I wanted to know how they do things. I asked this because how could someone review the product correctly if none of them have the same quality picture? So all presets are basic calibrations from the factory and all should pretty much look the same coming from the factory. Then minor corrections need to be made to allow for your particular room. Is that correct?
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If you read the decent reviews like those done by Phil Hinton over on AVforums you'll see that they show the out of the box calibration and then they calibrate as best as the projector's controls allow (ie they don't use an external CMS, etc to correct oversaturation for example). Therefore these reviews are based on watching a calibrated picture. This sometimes means that a projector is viewed at much lower than the manufacturer's claimed lumens output as this can be exagerated if measured (for the specs) at a high colour temp for example, but at least it's a level playing field.
FWIW I think that the THX setting isn't worth a great deal on any projector due to the lamp drifting. For the same reason I don't think having a projector calibrated by the dealer is worth doing. You need to put at least 100 hours on the lamp to let it stabilise and incase of early failure (you won't get the cost of your wasted ISF calibration back if the projector fails early on).
FWIW I think that the THX setting isn't worth a great deal on any projector due to the lamp drifting. For the same reason I don't think having a projector calibrated by the dealer is worth doing. You need to put at least 100 hours on the lamp to let it stabilise and incase of early failure (you won't get the cost of your wasted ISF calibration back if the projector fails early on).
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I believe some are calibrated to certain specs before leaving the factory, but due to these settings varying from unit to unit, it's not accurate to follow someone else's settings even in that case. This is why some calibrators that post settings here post the offsets rather than the settings. Like if his TV came out of the factory with a R-Drive of 50 and his resulting calibration have it at 55, he will post +5 rather than 55 because others with the same unit may have a 45 default setting.
I believe some are calibrated to certain specs before leaving the factory, but due to these settings varying from unit to unit, it's not accurate to follow someone else's settings even in that case. This is why some calibrators that post settings here post the offsets rather than the settings. Like if his TV came out of the factory with a R-Drive of 50 and his resulting calibration have it at 55, he will post +5 rather than 55 because others with the same unit may have a 45 default setting.
I own three completely identical Mitsubishi projectors. Grey is visibly not the same shade of grey if the projectors are setup identically, close but no cigar. I assume it is mainly due to lamps outputting different light, and lamp output varying with age. I suppose color filters might vary or age or get dirty as well.
Calibration with RGB bias and gain maybe pretty coarse anyway so I doubt you would get much difference in calibration with identical projectors using identical screens, maybe a point of two here or there. At least from my experience of having three projectors, may not hold true for a larger sample.
If you are using different screens then calibration could be significantly different. Different screens have significantly different RGB values.
Calibration with RGB bias and gain maybe pretty coarse anyway so I doubt you would get much difference in calibration with identical projectors using identical screens, maybe a point of two here or there. At least from my experience of having three projectors, may not hold true for a larger sample.
If you are using different screens then calibration could be significantly different. Different screens have significantly different RGB values.
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