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Could a Firmware Fix solve this Gross Error? Is Firmware cabable of this? As many have stated on this board Panny chose to allow a DVD-RAM Disc burned on the 2005 ES10/30 to be high speed transferred to previous HDD models(E-80 E500,etc but denied the capability to turn around and hi speed no loss burn back to a DVD-R using these previous models.. This is the biggest bunch of crap you could imagine . It boggles the mind and is so screwed up I cannot talk about it coherently it makes me so mad. I understand that the 2005 E50 HDD may have this capability. Confirm. Can it handle 2003-2004 interchange? Regardless this is crazy when Panny from the beginning advertised DVD-RAM as an interchangeable media that they invented FOR their units.
 

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Actually, as has been mentioned here before, it isn't the year the machine was made, it's the simple fact that machines without hard drives in them, like the ones you cite, do not have the ability to set the Panasonic high speed dub flag. Since they don't have a hard drive, these machines are incapable of anything but real-time recording. None of the hard drive equipped recorders have this limitation, but you DO have to check high speed when you setup the machine.


I know, this does not help you. It should probably be stressed in a FAQ somewhere that if you opt for a non hard drive unit, then you will not be able to high speed (lossless) dub, even if you take the recording to another machine. That way, at least we won't get people so surprised when they discover this.


What does the high speed dub flag do, and why could it not be included in the non hard drive machines? If it's just some processing, Panasonic has developed the circuitry because it's in their hard drive units. Couldn't it have been incorporated into the non HD units to prevent these frustrations?
 

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It's more than just a flag Church, it's how the video is recorded. By default, Panasonic DVDR will vary both bit-rate and screen resolution during a record. A shift to a lower resolution during a high action scene will allow the recorder to use a high bit-rate to minimize any blocking artifacts. This is OK for time-shifting playback from the recorder HDD (or VR mode RAM) but results in a number of problems on transition to DVD Video.


The DVD Video spec. provides for fixed screen resolution (i.e. 720x480). If your source has multiple screen resolutions the video has to be re-encoded to equalize them and bring the video into DVD spec. That's why you can't hi-speed dub to DVD-R (video mode). It doesn't matter for VR mode which is why you can hi-speed dub the RAMs no matter how it is recorded. When you set the flag in the recorder you are telling it to record at a single screen resolution (704x480).


Although I've never tried it, I believe I read that TMPGenC DVD Author has problems with the video source if it is encoded with multiple screen resolutions. TDA can't re-encode so it chokes on it.


Not being able to set fixed screen resolution on a Panasonic non-HDD DVDR could be a royal pain, really, more so than one might initially realize. Suppose you have a sat or cable box with builtin PVR and you want to buy a DVDR to hook up to archive your programs. You already have a stud PC and will do all your editing/authoring on it so you only need a simple non-HDD DVDR so you can get the video out of the PVR for transfer to the PC. With one of these units, you're screwed. If you use RAM for the record, everything will have to be re-encoded on the PC to make a DVD-R and some of my favorite authoring apps will be useless. If you use DVD-R for the record, it will be encoded properly in single resolution video mode -- but then you'll be tossing out the DVD-R and wasting money.
 

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Thanks for that explanation Kelson. So, as a side effect of setting the high speed dub flag, are you in effect getting a "worse" recording? You are restricting the machine from varying the bit rate and screen resolution, which it apparently does based on content. Maybe turning high speed dubbing off and recording directly to DVD-Rs is the way to get the best looking copy of a source.


From your last paragraph, it seems to me that adding fixed screen resolution to their non-HD machines would be a good thing. Panasonic should consider it.
 

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I don't know that it is a "worse" recording. I've recorded at SP with the HS-Dub flag set since day one and I've always been pleased with the PQ. It always looks as good as the original to me and I've never seen macro-blocks or other distortions on high action scenes i.e. NASCAR footage.
 

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To get back on topic: HoustonGuy has a legitimate gripe I think. It is NOT unreasonable to expect one Panasonic DVD recorder to behave just like the others in a specific area. This piece of information should be highlighted somewhere, so next time someone says, "Well, I don't need a hard drive in the DVD recorder I'm thinking of buying..." we can point them to a "new buyers" faq that has a warning about this.


HoustonGuy expected to be able to high speed dub from a RAM disk recorded on his non-hd DVD recorder. It wasn't an unreasonable expectation and Panasonic should allow a "fixed resolution" option on those machines. Maybe few people would use it, but those who do would really appreciate it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy
Thanks for that explanation Kelson. So, as a side effect of setting the high speed dub flag, are you in effect getting a "worse" recording? You are restricting the machine from varying the bit rate and screen resolution, which it apparently does based on content. Maybe turning high speed dubbing off and recording directly to DVD-Rs is the way to get the best looking copy of a source.


From your last paragraph, it seems to me that adding fixed screen resolution to their non-HD machines would be a good thing. Panasonic should consider it.
Yes, high-speed dub will give you a 'worse' recording -- but you can't record hybrid vbr to dvd-r anyway -- only to hd or ram.


[Turning on the high-speed-dub flag also causes only one audio channel to be recorded and forces 4:3 recording regardless of the source format -- turning off the flag allows both main and SAP to be recorded as well as allowing 16:9 recording of 16:9 source -- but again, only to hd or ram -- which is why re-encoding is necessary when going to -r.]


But I agree, an option to force 'dvd-r' compatible ram recording should be included even though there is no hd.
 

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Clay, If you turn off the flag and record a 16:9 source as 16:9, when you burn it to DVD-R and it re-encodes, does it maintain the 16:9 format?
 
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