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Discussion Starter #1
Choosing the right receiver to replace my 10+ year old Onkyo TX-SR800 has been no easy task. Comparing features/specs and reading reviews has left me with the opinion that every brand is loved and hated equally.


Unlike many of you, I dont have a monster budget that allows me to replace my receiver every 2 years, so i am trying to pick one that I will be happy with for another decade. Because of this factor, build quality is one of my top priorities.


When i purchased my SR800 12 years ago, weight meant quality. All of the big names touted heafty receivers for their flagship models. Now, i see this has changed. Some upper end receivers, like the Marantz SR7008 weigh under 30 pounds.


So, my question is why? Why does a NAD T787 and a Onkyo TX-NR5010 weigh 20 pounds more than a Denon AVR-4520CI, and 25 more than the above mentioned Marantz?


My current top choice is the Yamaha RX-A3030, weighing in at a respectable 41lbs. It's surprising how similar its interior is to my SR800, with its oversized heat sinks and power supply.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Anyone have an answer?
 

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You have already answered your own question.


...with its oversized heat sinks and power supply....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That's it? That accounts for 25 lbs? So the Marantz are just cheaply made? I was at Best Buy the other day, and i played around with a Denon X4000. It certainly felt, and looked cheap.


The Yamaha i am most interested in right now is their flagship receiver, yet it weighs the same as my old mid line Onkyo. Has the market been cutting corners on quality over the past 10 years, to compensate for increased production costs? Are today's top products inferior to the older models?


Will upgrading result in any notable sound quality improvement, or possibly a reduction? I am currently using analog outs on my Oppo BDP-83, in order to achieve Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA.
 

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You get diminishing returns when it comes to power though. A 30lb Marantz receiver will give you probably 85% the power of a 40lb Yamaha, which will give you about 90% of the power of a 55lb Onkyo. I mean if 20-30 extra watts is a big deal, then yeah go for it.


However, as I understand it these products aren't even in the same price range. You could compare the weight of the Marantz and Yamaha because they are both $2k, but the Onkyo is $3k and the NAD is $4k.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax542  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24164639


That's it? That accounts for 25 lbs? So the Marantz are just cheaply made? I was at Best Buy the other day, and i played around with a Denon X4000. It certainly felt, and looked cheap.


The Yamaha i am most interested in right now is their flagship receiver, yet it weighs the same as my old mid line Onkyo. Has the market been cutting corners on quality over the past 10 years, to compensate for increased production costs? Are today's top products inferior to the older models?


Will upgrading result in any notable sound quality improvement, or possibly a reduction? I am currently using analog outs on my Oppo BDP-83, in order to achieve Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA.

Please note that the NAD T787 has two toroidal transformers. It's also a $4k AVR, you would expect much better build quality if weight alone were the gauge you used for a decision on build quality. The big Pioneer Elites use digital amps and offer plenty of power and excellent build quality. That Aventage Yamaha 3030 also has excellent build quality IMO. The Aventage line from Yamaha offers some of the best out there today. Why the weight difference between their line and others that use the same type of amps I cannot answer. But it seems you are like me and use weight to a degree as to the build quality. They just feel better with a little heft to them, don't believe it has any effect on how they sound though. Goofy hobby isn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I work for a major appliance manufacturer, and in our industry, weight equals improved build quality.

That being said, if the Onkyos didn't have HDMI board failures, I would be ordering one of their beefy 56 pounders today. Tha NAD is out of my price range. Well, my wallet could handle it, but my marriage couldn't.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax542  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24164917


I work for a major appliance manufacturer, and in our industry, weight equals improved build quality.

It doesn't necessarily equal that in the hi fi component industry.
 

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Discussion Starter #9

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrallite  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24164854



However, as I understand it these products aren't even in the same price range. You could compare the weight of the Marantz and Yamaha because they are both $2k, but the Onkyo is $3k and the NAD is $4k.

The Onkyo TX-NR3010 is also 55 lbs, and can be had for $2k.


Does anyone know if the TX-NR929 has solved the HDMI problem? Is Onkyo going to announce a new flagship line at CES?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax542  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24164970


The Onkyo TX-NR3010 is also 55 lbs, and can be had for $2k.


Does anyone know if the TX-NR929 has solved the HDMI problem? Is Onkyo going to announce a new flagship line at CES?

Don't know if Onkyo has solved their HDMI problems. To me they aren't worth the gamble at this time. It seems that from the many post here that they do indeed still have those problems. The 929 does offer many features but the dedicated thread for it just doesn't have the owners for what seems to be a feature rich AVR for the money. I have two Onkyo's(one with HDMI board a 876) and it still works to this day. However I added fans to it when I purchased due to their heat problem. If you are not into all the fluff some of these have you may want to give the NAD T758 a look. Plenty of power,MDC, and on sale at Crutchfield for an awesome price.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_745T758/NAD-T-758.html
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24165110


Don't know if Onkyo has solved their HDMI problems. To me they aren't worth the gamble at this time. It seems that from the many post here that they do indeed still have those problems. The 929 does offer many features but the dedicated thread for it just doesn't have the owners for what seems to be a feature rich AVR for the money. I have two Onkyo's(one with HDMI board a 876) and it still works to this day. However I added fans to it when I purchased due to their heat problem. If you are not into all the fluff some of these have you may want to give the NAD T758 a look. Plenty of power,MDC, and on sale at Crutchfield for an awesome price.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_745T758/NAD-T-758.html

I simply want the build quality of NAD, the sound quality of Cambridge, the room correction of Anthem, all on a feature laden 9.2 receiver like the Onkyo and Yamaha. Is that too much to ask?



Edit: And it needs to cost around $2k.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax542  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24165204


I simply want the build quality of NAD, the sound quality of Cambridge, the room correction of Anthem, all on a feature laden 9.2 receiver like the Onkyo and Yamaha. Is that too much to ask?



Edit: And it needs to cost around $2k.
What about the Pioneer Elite SC-77/SC-79 for that matter ?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax542  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24165204


I simply want the build quality of NAD, the sound quality of Cambridge, the room correction of Anthem, all on a feature laden 9.2 receiver like the Onkyo and Yamaha. Is that too much to ask?



Edit: And it needs to cost around $2k.

Sound quality will be the same with any AVR. All of them have linear performance. Calibration software seems like a fairly silly requirement since all of them have routines that appear to work effectively. Build quality is only an issue in terms of reliability. Yamaha has an extremely good reliability record, perhaps better than that of NAD. So go for a $2000 Yamaha.
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prietz0r  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24165663


What about the Pioneer Elite SC-77/SC-79 for that matter ?

I know it's a little silly, but I don't like the fact that I can't find any pictures of the SC-77 or SC-79 interiors. It's like they're hiding something.
 

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It's like nobody opened one and photographed it. Major AVR manufacturers don't publish photos like that. They are made by hobbyists.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax542  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24166103

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prietz0r  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24165663


What about the Pioneer Elite SC-77/SC-79 for that matter ?

I know it's a little silly, but I don't like the fact that I can't find any pictures of the SC-77 or SC-79 interiors. It's like they're hiding something.
Then you didn't searched good enough


Here are pictures of the inside ánd outside of the European/World version Pioneer Elite SC-79, the Pioneer SC-LX87:
http://www.areadvd.de/tests/xxl-test-9-2-av-receiver-pioneer-sc-lx87/
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24167151


It's like nobody opened one and photographed it. Major AVR manufacturers don't publish photos like that. They are made by hobbyists.

Not always see below



And what about the own Pioneer Electronics promo video ?


And last but not least the official Pineer Japan pictures of the world version of the Pioneer Elite SC-79 the Pioneer SC-LX87:
http://pioneer.jp/components/avamp/lx87/quality.html
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prietz0r  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24167158


Then you didn't searched good enough


Here are pictures of the inside ánd outside of the European/World version Pioneer Elite SC-79, the Pioneer SC-LX87:
http://www.areadvd.de/tests/xxl-test-9-2-av-receiver-pioneer-sc-lx87/

Not always see below



And what about the own Pioneer Electronics promo video ?


And last but not least the official Pineer Japan pictures of the world version of the Pioneer Elite SC-79 the Pioneer SC-LX87:
http://pioneer.jp/components/avamp/lx87/quality.html

I hereby dub you search engine master of AVS forum.
 

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Several Manufacturers have begun using Switching Mode power supplies in their receivers and these weigh far less than previous power supply designs. Additionally, amplifier design has come a long way in the last 10 years and amps do not produce the same level of heat as they did 10 years ago requiring smaller heat sinks which weigh less. It's not really fair to compare a receiver from a decade ago with one from today based on weight.


Having said that, I have the Marantz SR7008 and it is really amazing. I have no problems driving my B&W 600 series speakers very loud during movies and they sound incredible. I am immensely happy with my receiver.
 

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Discussion Starter #20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prietz0r  /t/1509749/why-do-onkyos-and-nads-weigh-so-much#post_24167158


Then you didn't searched good enough


Here are pictures of the inside ánd outside of the European/World version Pioneer Elite SC-79, the Pioneer SC-LX87:
http://www.areadvd.de/tests/xxl-test-9-2-av-receiver-pioneer-sc-lx87/

Not always see below



And what about the own Pioneer Electronics promo video ?


And last but not least the official Pineer Japan pictures of the world version of the Pioneer Elite SC-79 the Pioneer SC-LX87:
http://pioneer.jp/components/avamp/lx87/quality.html

So I'm guessing you would choose the SC-77 over the Yamaha a3030? If so, why?
 
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