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Why does 720p from the Panny BD30 look so bad?

1703 Views 14 Replies 7 Participants Last post by John Moschella, Jan 22, 2008

John Moschella

Discussion Starter · Jan 21, 2008

My projector is native 720p and its old (Marantz VP-12s1), so I would expect that any blu-ray player would look better set to 720p, or at least as good, when compared to 1080i. This was the case when I had a Sony s300 in the house for a couple of weeks. I ditched that player for lack of HD audio support. Anyway, with the Panasonic its not the case. 720p looks noticeably soft and lacks that depth that HD video can produce. I'm wondering how this can be. How can a 6-year old projector scale better than a new player.

Because my projector is having some issues when it is set to 1080i, I really need to use 720p and this is forcing me to try another player.

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

namechamps

· #2 · Jan 21, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moschella /forum/post/12883479

My projector is native 720p and its old (Marantz VP-12s1), so I would expect that any blu-ray player would look better set to 720p, or at least as good, when compared to 1080i. This was the case when I had a Sony s300 in the house for a couple of weeks. I ditched that player for lack of HD audio support. Anyway, with the Panasonic its not the case. 720p looks noticeably soft and lacks that depth that HD video can produce. I'm wondering how this can be. How can a 6-year old projector scale better than a new player.

Because my projector is having some issues when it is set to 1080i, I really need to use 720p and this is forcing me to try another player.

The scalar in the BD10 & BD30 (& likely future BD50) is sub-par. This causes upscaling DVD look worse than a 3 year old Sony upscalar which tops out @ 1080i). Same chip is used for "downscaling" to 720p. It just isn't as good as other scalars and nowhere near quality of a reon.

Now the "good" news is that any display should be able to scale images better than the player (DVD 480i->720p,768p,1080p, BD 1080p->720p, 768p). In your case you indicate that your projector is having issues with 1080i input so that looks like a bad combination of equipment.

John Moschella

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 21, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by namechamps /forum/post/12884060

The scalar in the BD10 & BD30 (& likely future BD50) is sub-par. This causes upscaling DVD look worse than a 3 year old Sony upscalar which tops out @ 1080i). Same chip is used for "downscaling" to 720p. It just isn't as good as other scalars and nowhere near quality of a reon.

Now the "good" news is that any display should be able to scale images better than the player (DVD 480i->720p,768p,1080p, BD 1080p->720p, 768p). In your case you indicate that your projector is having issues with 1080i input so that looks like a bad combination of equipment.

Thanks for the explanation. Its just really surprising, and your right it looks like its just a bad combo for me.

oink

· #4 · Jan 21, 2008

That is odd that your projector would have a problem with 1080i....

Try outputting DVDs at 480p from the Panny and have your projector scale to 720p.

The BD30 has a good de-interlacer IMO.

namechamps

· #5 · Jan 21, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by oink /forum/post/12886838

That is odd that your projector would have a problem with 1080i....

Try outputting DVDs at 480p from the Panny and have your projector scale to 720p.

The BD30 has a good de-interlacer IMO.

I think the OP major concern is BD quality. I just brought up DVD because despite the term "upconverting" it really is scaling. The scaler in the BD10/30/50? is subpar. Most people are concerned with scaling DVD 480p->1080p but in this case the OP needs to scale BD from 1080p->720p.

oink

· #6 · Jan 22, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by namechamps /forum/post/12886991

I think the OP major concern is BD quality. I just brought up DVD because despite the term "upconverting" it really is scaling. The scaler in the BD10/30/50? is subpar. Most people are concerned with scaling DVD 480p->1080p but in this case the OP needs to scale BD from 1080p->720p.

I have the BD10 as well.

Have always used external scalers (VP50 and Reon) for BD output to my display and BD has always looked great to me.

shawnmos

· #7 · Jan 22, 2008

Get the Samsung BD-P1400. It can decode TrueHD and I think it can bitstream TrueHD and DTS-MA. Plus it's cheaper than the Panasonic.

John Moschella

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jan 22, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnmos /forum/post/12891875

Get the Samsung BD-P1400. It can decode TrueHD and I think it can bitstream TrueHD and DTS-MA. Plus it's cheaper than the Panasonic.

The Samsung 1400 arrived yesterday so I got a chance to compare the two. At 720p the Samsung clearly has the edge. At 1080i I can't tell any difference. The Samsung bitstreams all the audio codecs (like the Panasonic) and will cost me about $150 less, so I'm going to take the Panasonic back.

The problems with my projector can be found in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=978591

It was interesting, for the 2 hrs of going back and forth between the two players last night, the "rolling bars" 1080i issue was not observed with the Samsung, but was very obvious with the Panasonic. Because the problem is intermittent no firm conclusions can be drawn.

ElwayLite

· #9 · Jan 22, 2008

I have the BD30 sending 720p to my Sony and it looks awesome, maybe I should try 1080i and see if its better.

ADGrant

· #10 · Jan 22, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by namechamps /forum/post/12884060

The scalar in the BD10 & BD30 (& likely future BD50) is sub-par. This causes upscaling DVD look worse than a 3 year old Sony upscalar which tops out @ 1080i). Same chip is used for "downscaling" to 720p. It just isn't as good as other scalars and nowhere near quality of a reon.

Its pretty sad that the Panasonic players can't downscale 1080p to 720p. That's not a very hard thing to do. I am happy I didn't wait for the BD50 or buy a BD30.

ADGrant

· #11 · Jan 22, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by namechamps /forum/post/12884060

Now the "good" news is that any display should be able to scale images better than the player (DVD 480i->720p,768p,1080p, BD 1080p->720p, 768p). In your case you indicate that your projector is having issues with 1080i input so that looks like a bad combination of equipment.

Going from 1080p->1080i->720p should not result in better PQ than 1080p-720p. If the BD30 has a scaler which is inferior to an older 720p TV, that doesn't say much for Panasonic's image processing technology.

ElwayLite

· #12 · Jan 22, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADGrant /forum/post/12893739

Going from 1080p->1080i->720p should not result in better PQ than 1080p-720p. If the BD30 has a scaler which is inferior to an older 720p TV, that doesn't say much for Panasonic's image processing technology.

I think something else is up here.

The BD30 1080p to 720p to 720ptv looks better than the PS3 doing them same.

whiskey alpha

· #13 · Jan 22, 2008

are you guys saying that the panny stinks at 1080p to 720p scaling? That is exactly what I need done for my IN78 720p PJ. Should I look at a different player?

ElwayLite

· #14 · Jan 22, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey alpha /forum/post/12895255

are you guys saying that the panny stinks at 1080p to 720p scaling? That is exactly what I need done for my IN78 720p PJ. Should I look at a different player?

From personal experience and comparison to an A2 and PS3, I think they are full of it.

John Moschella

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 22, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey alpha /forum/post/12895255

are you guys saying that the panny stinks at 1080p to 720p scaling? That is exactly what I need done for my IN78 720p PJ. Should I look at a different player?

All I can tell you is my experience, I'm sure the individual display matters. I've had the Sony s300, Panny BD30 and Samsung 1400 in my house and the Panasonic was the only player where I noticed a distinct reduction of quality from 1080i to 720p. You should really try to compare two player and see for yourself, if possible.

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