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Is CBS using different cameras? Even the FOX OT and pre-game looks mediocre in HD compared to CBS' football programs. But games are the most glaring difference. NBC's Sunday games and ESPN MNF come close but still aren't as good as the CBS games in teams of PQ. And Fox, oh Fox, the games look very mediocre in HD. I just don't get it.
 

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Yes as there are double the amount of pixles in a 1080I frame than a 720P frame but thats not the whole story as 720P done right can come close. Fox seems to be lazy when it comes to HD, they just havent done it right from the get go. Some of they syndication programs look good, but anything beyond that is crap.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeSmails /forum/post/15406092


Is CBS using different cameras? Even the FOX OT and pre-game looks mediocre in HD compared to CBS' football programs. But games are the most glaring difference. NBC's Sunday games and ESPN MNF come close but still aren't as good as the CBS games in teams of PQ. And Fox, oh Fox, the games look very mediocre in HD. I just don't get it.

I know in NY they don't multicast (not sure for rest of country) which means they send the full 19.2 Mbps to the provider.


We can argue 1080i vs 720p until he Cowboys win a big game with Romo.

So, I will leave that alone.
 

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it's not as simple as 1080i being superior to 720p.


nbc broadcasts in 1080i and their nfl games are no wheres near

as sharp as cbs.


i'm not sure what cbs is doing, but they provide the best hd pq of any of the networks hands down.
 

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Agreed. And it's not just the CBS football broadcasts that look great - their prime time shows also look significantly better than the other networks. Just check out an episode of Big Bang Theory or How I Met Your Mother - you'll forget you're watching broadcast.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodwel1 /forum/post/15407166


Agreed. And it's not just the CBS football broadcasts that look great - their prime time shows also look significantly better than the other networks. Just check out an episode of Big Bang Theory or How I Met Your Mother - you'll forget you're watching broadcast.

Well CBS PQ in this scenario would have more to do with the transmission chain than anything else. Also a lot of this has to do with locals, I've been in a few locals where CBS has been terrible and broken to pieces on shows like Victoria's Secret and The Grammys, but I've also seen it look pretty darn good. Remember NFL remotes are almost always VYVX VenueNet Fiber Optics back to the network and then go out down the backhaul in many cases fiber as well that should offer an improvement of performance over satellite uplink and downlink (and re-uplink) which is standard at most other events.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally /forum/post/15407110


it's not as simple as 1080i being superior to 720p.


nbc broadcasts in 1080i and their nfl games are no wheres near

as sharp as cbs.


i'm not sure what cbs is doing, but they provide the best hd pq of any of the networks hands down.

CBS and FOX use the same backhauls / high bandwidth fiber.


NBC uses MPEG2/MPEG4 at low bandwidth.


FOX v CBS is due to 720p v 1080.


NBC v CBS is due to the cheap backhaul and low bitrate distribution to affiliates.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones /forum/post/15407925


The issue is what Fox and others do with their signal for broadcast.

Yep, and that's the thing that most people don't factor into the discussion. Once the signal leaves the truck, it may be pristine, however that is not what is going to the home viewer -- it must first travel through the network operation center, where it will be routed through an untold amount of gear until it eventually makes it way out to the network feed. A lot of things can happen between the "in" and the "out." That's the unknown that we cannot see.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by videojanitor /forum/post/15408343


Once the signal leaves the truck, it may be pristine....

Speaking of which, to clarify the 'camera' issue, none of the broadcast networks own the production equipment they use. It's all leased, and you could well find the same truck that CBS uses for one type of event doing a different live event for FOX or ABC.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones /forum/post/15407925


720p can look just as good as 1080i, 720 vs 1080 is not the issue. The issue is what Fox and others do with their signal for broadcast.

Again, I can show you Lost (on ABC) and House (on Fox) and their counterparts in 1080 - Lost from Europe and House on USA-HD - and its night and day.


One can point the finger at the Fox Splicer all day (a pretty flimsy excuse) - but that does not explain the difference on ABC Material.


If you feel that 720p with 50% less resolution can look as good as 1080, your Mitsubishi's need calibration.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones /forum/post/15407925


720p can look just as good as 1080i, 720 vs 1080 is not the issue. The issue is what Fox and others do with their signal for broadcast.

This answer is fundamentally wrong. All things being equal; each broadcasting at the lowest amount of compression or alterations, 1080 is superior, by 340 lines of resolution. You can dress it up so it looks good but 720 will never look as good as 1080.
 

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And 720p is superior by having twice as many frames per second. Or at least it is with the same fallacious reasoning that says 1080i is better than 720p because 1080 is 360 more than 720. It ignores a few basic factors like only half the lines getting updated every 1/60 of a second in 1080i, while the entire frame updates every 1/60 of a second in 720p.


BeachComber's comparison of Lost and House is worse than meaningless to this discussion. Those shows originate at 24p and undergo either 2:3 pulldown to get 30i frames per second, or a 4% speedup and 2:2 pulldown to 25i frames per second. A good TV will be capable of reversing either of those pulldowns and displaying full 1920x1080 frames. All other things being equal, a 1920x1080p frame simply has the capability to display more than a 1280x720p frame. However, since that simply isn't possible with 60Hz content like sports (i.e. the topic of this thread), it's not a relevant argument and simply adds confusing information to an already unclear topic. A good deinterlacer will make for a good picture, but at best it's going to estimate what should be in those missing lines, and won't come close to 1080 lines of effective resolution.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber /forum/post/15407445


CBS and FOX use the same backhauls / high bandwidth fiber.


NBC uses MPEG2/MPEG4 at low bandwidth.


FOX v CBS is due to 720p v 1080.


NBC v CBS is due to the cheap backhaul and low bitrate distribution to affiliates.

well said
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuJac /forum/post/15409116


This answer is fundamentally wrong. All things being equal; each broadcasting at the lowest amount of compression or alterations, 1080 is superior, by 340 lines of resolution.

?


You're not taking into account the difference between interlaced and progressive.
 
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