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Discussion Starter #1
Ok,

If this question has been asked before, please excuse me and refer me to the correct thread.


I am just curious, it seem that all 42†plasma are either ED (853x480) or HD (1024x768), the Sony KE-42XS910 and a few others exceptions are (1024x1024), the Pioneer PDP-4340HD is (1280 x 768).


My question is: I read that since the resolution on these sets is not 1080, they cannot display all of the information contained in an HD Broadcast.


Why can’t they make 42†HD Plasma screens with higher resolutions???
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Quote:
Originally posted by imz14u2nv
Ok,

If this question has been asked before, please excuse me and refer me to the correct thread.


I am just curious, it seem that all 42†plasma are either ED (853x480) or HD (1024x768), the Sony KE-42XS910 and a few others exceptions are (1024x1024), the Pioneer PDP-4340HD is (1280 x 768).


My question is: I read that since the resolution on these sets is not 1080, they cannot display all of the information contained in an HD Broadcast.


Why can’t they make 42†HD Plasma screens with higher resolutions???


Sorry,

I posted to the wrong forum.
 

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Answer the question here because they won't allow you to ask the question over there--yes they COULD do it but currently the display would simply cost too much and they're already making trillions on plasma displays. The other dirty little secret that plasma proponents can't stand to admit, but is in fact true is that the Sony 34XBR910 direct-view set produces more resolution than ANY plasma currently made--it is the resolution champ--and all the CRT direct-view detractors can't stand it! On questions of resolution they're always confused, muddied, and made way too complicated and nebulous because it kills plasma lovers to admit this FACT!!!
 

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If you are looking for Computer quality out of a TV they would have to add a lot more expensive electronics to the system...and even then unless they offered high refresh rates (85Hz or more) you get a headache really quick


TVs are meant to refresh at 60Hz and even the new HDTVs use that refresh rate.... the sets that use 100hz are simply displaying each frame twice (i believe that this is PAL only please correct me if I am wrong)


Until they offer video at more than 24-30fps there really is no way to combine the TV and PC monitor without making some compromises that will negatively affect both.


LCD work as both TV and Monitor becuase eventough they offer only on average 60hz, they do not have the ficker that CRTs do when you use a low refresh rate.


a computer CRT monitor uses phosphors that have a much shorter decay than a TV does becuase of the higher refresh rates.....if you use a TV as a monitor and (if you could) set it to a high refresh rate, the picture would be smeared and out of focus.


One of the reasons that you can actually use a TV tuner card or software DVD player on a PC is because your video card processes the image and adjusts the picture to match your refresh rate on your display. the video card also deblocks and deinterlaces the signal as well and most if not all newer cards do a large chunk of the DVD decode.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jet Champion
Answer the question here because they won't allow you to ask the question over there--yes they COULD do it but currently the display would simply cost too much and they're already making trillions on plasma displays. The other dirty little secret that plasma proponents can't stand to admit, but is in fact true is that the Sony 34XBR910 direct-view set produces more resolution than ANY plasma currently made--it is the resolution champ--and all the CRT direct-view detractors can't stand it! On questions of resolution they're always confused, muddied, and made way too complicated and nebulous because it kills plasma lovers to admit this FACT!!!
Maybe you could try and set us straight on something. I may have to go to a CRT RPTV from my 40XBR. I was told over in the RPTV forum, when I asked how much resolution I'd lose in doing this, that CRT RPTV's provide MORE resolution than direct-views. Like 6 people told me this vs. 1 who said stick with the 40. Do you know the real deal on CRT RPTV vs Direct-View CRT resolution capabilities???
 

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The Pioneer 43" is 1024x768, only their 50" plasma has 1280x768. By the way even RPTVs and CRT HDTVs due to dotpitch and optical limitations can't resolve full HD resolution either, some not even as much as the better plasma displays. The 50" 1366x768 plasmas are about the best consumer displays available right now. The smaller Sony 34XBR910 with its super-fine-pitch HD CRT provides a similar resolution to plasma but CRTs are marred by geometry and convergence errors that distort the picture compared to the perfect geometry on a plasma display. What good is high resolution if its distorted?
 

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obviously you have never used a really expensive computer display...... A good brand of PC monitor such as Sony Imaya ViewSonic, etc have CRT monitors that are excellent and do not suffer from the geometry issues that plaque normal TV CRTs and also do not suffer from the limitations of LCD/plasma monitors (IE color reproduction, refresh rates, smearing with high action video, etc)
 

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1366X768 Plasmas. Ask sony how many slots are in their superfine grill. 1401--that's 35 more forever. Even 9-inch tubes don't resolve that much. Actually when it come to resolution those 3 are quite close and because of broadcast's limitations it's all a wash--but ask Sony in court under oath which display has the most resolution and Sony will tell you the 34XBR910 by a hair. I know plasma lovers hate to hear it and yes eventually they will have more resolution, but not now and that is a fact!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jet Champion
1366X768 Plasmas. Ask sony how many slots are in their superfine grill. 1401--that's 35 more forever. Even 9-inch tubes don't resolve that much. Actually when it come to resolution those 3 are quite close and because of broadcast's limitations it's all a wash--but ask Sony in court under oath which display has the most resolution and Sony will tell you the 34XBR910 by a hair. I know plasma lovers hate to hear it and yes eventually they will have more resolution, but not now and that is a fact!
I don't hate to hear it, I even knew before I bought the plasma.


Problem is, you get much more than 6 ft away from the 34" and you can't see the higher resolution anymore, let alone the 35 extra pixels. 34" would have been puny for my media room, sitting 12ft back. I do have one in the family room, but not the XBR. At the 8-10ft viewing distance there, the XBR910 would have been a waste.


-Lance

50" Panasonic Plasma, Sony 34HS510
 

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Mr. lkinley: You're absolutely correct. That's why I'm so frustrated that manufacturers won't produce direct-view in sizes greater than 34-inches. I had 36-inch direct-view for years. To get the same vertical height in a widescreen they would have to produce a 44-inch one. I don't know if that could get through the door. Because of the resolution I would only get 1366X768 and at least 50-inches if I was going to get a plama display. While I think plasma is more realistic--as far as bang for the buck with high resolution--I think the Mitsubishi 73713 with 9-inch guns can't be beat--great resolution--big size--and much less than plasma. I may not ever see a 44-inch direct-view, but I just wish that they would make more 38-inch widescreens like the Loewe 38-inch--the closest you can get to that is the Sony 40XBR800. Buy them while they last and beg the manufacturers for bigger widescreen direct-view CRT--at least give us more 38-inch ones like the Loewe! They are being produced. It isn't impossible!
 

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With a widescreen much larger than a 34", you'd need a forklift to install it!


My HS510 is 205lbs, that's over TWICE the weight of my 50" plasma (95 lbs)!!!


Size/weight has got to be the biggest issue with getting larger CRT's.


In ten years we'll all have panels on the wall that weigh less than 50 lbs...


-Lance
 

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JetChampion, you aren't listening! Though the Sony 34XBR910 has impressive resolution its geometry and convergence errors (that all flat CRTs have) make the overall picture quality way below a larger 50" HD plasma display. Thats also the reason the bigger CRTs have been discontinued and won't come back - the bigger CRTs have the worst geometry errors. And of course PC monitors are good quality but they are small CRT screens
 

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The 38" Loewe Acondas I've seen have had surprisingly good geometry and acceptable convergence for such a large tube. The brightness uniformity, admittedly, is acceptable at best and at worst can be distracting on sky/snow type scenes. The 34" XBR should be better in this regard, and is probably a very good choice for a small room even compared to the 42" and upcoming 37" HD Plasmas.


As for overall picture quality, that is debatable. It depends on your preferences. Some would prefer the black level/detail and color reproduction on a high quality direct view vs. all but perhaps the most expensive HD plasmas. Side by side, the Aconda 38 looked quite good on program material compared to the 42" Spheros HD next to it. I imagine the Spheros would shine on various test patterns, but most people don't watch those exclusively.


Even so, I would agree that that a tube larther than a 38" 16:9 or a 40" 4:3 is likely to have geometry/purity/brightness rolloff errors that would be unaccaptable to many consumers. If you must have a 40" or larger widescreen, then this discussion is irrelevant anyway.


I will probably own an HD plasma in a few years, but for now a 38" direct view appears to have the best set of compromises for my viewing. I even considered a 42" HD plasma now, but in the end I couldn't justify spending 2-4K more on something that had its own set of quirks. Blacks that glow in a dark room and loss of shadow detail are one issue, even on the darkest models with respect to the Aconda 38. Motion and other digital artifacts are another, especially on SD material. Again, it all depends on your viewing preferences and sources as to which set of compromises lead to the best overall picture quality in your room.


As for the original topic, I think a 720p native plasma is a good choice as they become more common. The DLP sets look great on HD material and are also 720p native. Some broadcasts are also 720p native and would require no scaling. Plus, it gives you a reasonable resolution for computer and console use. Unfortunately, the few plasmas that have 1280x720 or more lines of resolution are still rather expensive:-(
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Quote:
Originally posted by Jet Champion
Answer the question here because they won't allow you to ask the question over there--yes they COULD do it but currently the display would simply cost too much and they're already making trillions on plasma displays. The other dirty little secret that plasma proponents can't stand to admit, but is in fact true is that the Sony 34XBR910 direct-view set produces more resolution than ANY plasma currently made--it is the resolution champ--and all the CRT direct-view detractors can't stand it! On questions of resolution they're always confused, muddied, and made way too complicated and nebulous because it kills plasma lovers to admit this FACT!!!
I am not looking to insult anyone here, but, I find that most of the responses in these forums are non-committal, no one wants to give a straight answer and I am not sure why.


I am contemplating a 42†Plasma TV purchase, sometimes I think that with the larger LCD’s that should be coming out soon, that I should just hold off on this purchase.


I was really only making this purchase based on the fact that I would get a widescreen picture that is about 61.3% larger than the 4:3 Direct View TV (KV-36XBR400) that I am currently using.


I started thinking about this and was wondering if I was making the right decision spending about $6,000 on a TV that might not have better picture quality then want I am currently using and has a life expectancy of 5 years.


I sit about six to seven feet away from the TV, with my current set in widescreen displaying HD content, I find sitting at eight feet is just too far, I have to focus to hard to really enjoy it.


So that brought me to the AVSforum, I thought that I could rely on a place where all types from experts to beginners congregate that I could get an intelligent straightforward answer to the question of which gives the best picture quality based on the following criteria:


Note:


The TV’s in question are my current 4:3 36†Sony Wega Direct View KV-36XBR400 vs. Toshiba 42HP83 HD 42†Plasma.



Will the picture of an HD Plasma be better?? (By better, I guess I mean better color, clearer images, more detail)


I will be viewing both sets at about 6’


the reason that I am asking is that once I saw the Sony display pictures with the HD Cable box via Component Video, I started to re-think this whole HD Plasma purchase.


I know the plasma would give me a larger 16:9 image, but what else would I gain?? (no jokes about re-claiming living space please)
 

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I'll give you a straight take it to the bank and cash it answer: The Sony 34XBR910 is fantastic, but just too small. The 16:9 images on a 36-inch set are too small. Even the mighty Sony 40XBR800 will only give you 37-inches. The sweet spot for widescreen direct-view TV at that distance would be 38-inches, but the Loewe costs too much. With the 40XBR you do get 1080i and a DVI connection.Widescreen wise it's not the best, but it it gives you more inches without breaking the bank like the 38-inch Loewe and you get the bonus of the biggest 4:3 image available and at the distances you've indicated you'll feel like you're IN the movies. Buy it! Quick before it's gone! Is that a straight enough answer?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Quote:
Originally posted by Jet Champion
Buy it! Quick before it's gone! Is that a straight enough answer?
Not exactly, I really am not considering bringing another really large and very heavy TV home.


So what I am attempting to answer is should I:


1). Do nothing and just enjoy my Sony KV-36XBR400 Direct View


2). Purchase the Toshiba 42HP83 HD 42†Plasma to get a 61.3% larger screen.


And remember, I am trying to determine if the plasma would give a better picture at 6 feet.
 

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The quick answer is YES a good HD plasma will give you great picture quality, superior to direct-view CRT in many ways with perfect gemetry and convergence which is impossible on larger CRTs. The black level may be better on CRTs but the latest Panasonic-based plasmas are very close. Toshiba's plasma is based on NEC-glass I believe so it may not quite be as good as those based on Panasonic-glass. Since HD direct-view CRTs (except for the new Sony 34XBR910) have only around 850 horizontal slots, an HD plasma should be higher resolution than that old model 36XBR400. At 6feet, HD and DVD material should be excellent on the plasma, lower quality SD material is a question, depends on the plasma's electronics (scaler,de-interlacer) - the Fujitsu's are best in that area.
 

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I'm sure you will be very happy with the plasma. The main reason not to buy one is cost, or the fact that it is a relatively new technology. That means that in just a couple years plasmas will be much better and also cheaper. If those factors don't bother you, then go for it. Support a dealer with a good return policy so that you can evaluate in in your home and return it if you find you don't like it for some reason.
 

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imz,


If you're wanting a large screen & not concerned w/the price factor, then the Panny 42" is the answer, or even better, go for the Fujitsu 50". This 50"er will take you far into the next decade whereby who knows what/where the TV Tech will end. Plasma's are now in 3rd & 4th generation, and you've got an entire Forum full of happy owners to draw upon. Most all of those Plasma owners were past Tube lovers like us. Go to the Flat Panel Forum to get your best answers, and do alot of research.
 
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