[manikin]

Wanted to get input on a question that has bugging me for a while.


Givens:


Both HDMI and DVI-D support HDCP handshaking.

Both HDMI and DVI-D are pure digital


Maybe Givens:


Most people send the audio through a surround system.

Most TV speakers usually do not have the frequency response of good speakers systems.


Now the question.


What is the advantage of having a TV with HDMI instead of DVI, Typically I would send the video to the TV and and the digital audio to the receiver. Is there some spec out there in the future that suggests that no digital audio output will be available only HDMI? Is it possible to send the digital audio from the TV to a receiver? Do TV's with with HDMI inputs have speaker outputs for 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 channels?


Hopefully this has not been discussed to death already as I was unable to locate a thread exclusive to this topic.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

1. You can route audio and video to a receiver for switching with HDMI.

2. HDMI has some technical advantages over DVI for video.


Kal

 

[Fallen Kell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson 1. You can route audio and video to a receiver for switching with HDMI. 2. HDMI has some technical advantages over DVI for video. Kal

Actually HDMI does not have any technical advantages over DVI for video at all. The format was created simply to add audio plus the DVI video connection, so that there is an all in one connection type again just like the coax cable, but for high end audio and video.


As for why HDMI over DVI? Two big reasons.


1) Not all DVI is HDCP capible. (Yes I know that HDCP is a seperate protocol that is overlayed over the DVI or HDMI connection, but there are no HDMI connections which do not have HDCP in the mainstream)


2) Future generations of pre-processors/recievers/set-top-boxes etc., are all making the conversion to HDMI+HDCP. Which means if your display device does not have that as an imput (and you only have DVI+HDCP) you will always need a converter cable, and you are not gaurenteed compatibility when using the converter cable (even though the spec says that HDMI must be DVI backwards compatible, there are cases out there which have disproven that all HDMI+HDCP being compatible with DVI+HDCP when using a converter cable).

 

[donrussell]

Also, the HDMI connector is smaller, making it easier to route through wall openings. The negative is that there is no positive locking device (screw or clip) for the HDMI connector, so it can fall out easier.

 

[AcuraCL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manikin ...Maybe Givens: Most people send the audio through a surround system. Most TV speakers usually do not have the frequency response of good speakers systems. ....

Actualy a small small percentage of people use surround sound. We are not typical here.


And, even though I have a magnificent audio system, I never turn it on for 'regular' tv watching. Only PPVs, premium movies, or DVDs.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen Kell Actually HDMI does not have any technical advantages over DVI for video at all. The format was created simply to add audio plus the DVI video connection, so that there is an all in one connection type again just like the coax cable, but for high end audio and video.

Check out the 8bit DVI spec vs. 10/12bit HDMI video specs. Also, maximum unpowered cable lengths.


Kal

 

[thedataman]

Is it possible to send the digital audio from the TV to a receiver?


Yes, I have a Panny 42PD25U and it has an optical digital output....it is connected to the recevier so I can hear OTA HD in DD!


WOW Alot of Acronyms!


Chris

 

[assJack1]

DVI also has it advantages in terms of flexability for people with specific DVR boxes.


If using a 8300HD cable box and connecting w/ HDMI, certain TV's report back to the box that they are only 2 channel compatible. Thus, the box will not send any 5.1 surround. This is done all through the HDMI cable


Some cable companies (but not all) offer options within the DVR settings to overrider this. If your cable company hasnt updated the firmware (like mine) , people with surround system systems often fore-go HDMI and use DVI. Since DVI handshakes video only information, the 8300HD box will still allow 5.1 output to an A/V receiver.


Of course this is a specific case, but is a blessing in order to get full functionality of ones HT.

 

[mkoesel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manikin Now the question. What is the advantage of having a TV with HDMI instead of DVI, Typically I would send the video to the TV and and the digital audio to the receiver. Is there some spec out there in the future that suggests that no digital audio output will be available only HDMI?

Not that I am aware of, but it is certainly conceivable. After all, protecting the audio portion of digital media is really just as important as the video. At some point someone is bound to cry foul if digial audio output is not either removed, or has HDCP added to it's spec, or only outputs "low-quality" (maybe basic stereo) sound.


But even in that case, HDMI would not be strictly necessary on the TV because the audio would never go into the TV anyway. So DVI would still suffice there.

Quote:

Is it possible to send the digital audio from the TV to a receiver? Do TV's with with HDMI inputs have speaker outputs for 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 channels?

No TV I know of has this feature, but I am by no means familiar with all the TVs on the market or even the majority. I'm sure some high end displays probably have this feature.

 

[mitau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson Check out the 8bit DVI spec vs. 10/12bit HDMI video specs. Also, maximum unpowered cable lengths. Kal

Hi Kal, wondering if any of the current technologies (HDTV broadcast signals, upconverting DVD) are taking advantage of this 10/12 bit ? or these are just..specs ? Thanks

 

[skinsfan]

I got my Fujitsu 50 inch today. I tried to set it up with HDMI from the SA 8300, but only could get the HD channels. Tried to use component for the others, but the box displayed a message on the screen said the tv wasn't compatible


Once I pulled the HDMI input, it worked great on component


Any ideas?

 

[assJack1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan I got my Fujitsu 50 inch today. I tried to set it up with HDMI from the SA 8300, but only could get the HD channels. Tried to use component for the others, but the box displayed a message on the screen said the tv wasn't compatible Once I pulled the HDMI input, it worked great on component Any ideas?

I can't help you directly, but I seriously recommend taking a look at all the stickies in this forum.

 

[HeadRusch]

I thought HDMI couldn' t handle the bandwidth to carry 1080p video, but DVI could....

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitau Hi Kal, wondering if any of the current technologies (HDTV broadcast signals, upconverting DVD) are taking advantage of this 10/12 bit ? or these are just..specs ? Thanks

AFAIK, there's nothing currently that would take advantage of this difference. Times do change.


Kal

 

[manikin]

To get this straight in my head,


Currently There is no difference in DVI-D and HDMI in video Bandwidth. In the future there will(might) be.


If my output device has HDMI connecters (All my device outputs are progressive, DVI-D, and digital audio) I need a receiver that also has HDMI inputs ?


Is there a "Splitter" that separates HDMI audio and video if your receiver does not have HDMI inputs or is this going to be a forced upgrade?


I see one mention of digital audio out from a TV, though most of the TV's I have seen or my own TV does not have this facility, is this a new upcoming standard feature as HDMI becomes more ingrained?


So far I am far from convinced that if buying a new TV HDMI is a must. The current status seems to point to DVI-D + HDCP as perfectly serviceable. Especially as the cable box supplying HD, and DVD player output is DVI-D, and receiver is Digital In.

Other than this article, and related articles http://hardware.slashdot.org/article...33228&from=rss

I have not seen too much regarding HD-DVD and BLU RAY early sets output format.

 

[markrubin]

Gefen makes some HDMI splitters that are HDCP compliant but they only pass video: not audio (they work well)


edit: Gefen just came out with a 4x2 switcher with 4 inputs and 2 HDMI outputs (mirrored outputs) that passes video & audio


HD DVD/Blu Ray: best guess is first generation players will output 1080i: second generation will be 1080p: all via HDMI

 

[martyj19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manikin To get this straight in my head, Currently There is no difference in DVI-D and HDMI in video Bandwidth. In the future there will(might) be.

It's probably more correct to say that the HDMI interconnect by its nature supports higher bandwidth and nothing takes advantage of it at this time.

Quote:

If my output device has HDMI connecters (All my device outputs are progressive, DVI-D, and digital audio) I need a receiver that also has HDMI inputs ?

There's nothing stopping you from connecting your receiver the way you do without HDMI, that is with an optical or digital coaxial interconnect.

Quote:

Is there a "Splitter" that separates HDMI audio and video if your receiver does not have HDMI inputs or is this going to be a forced upgrade?

No, and this is unlikely to ever exist.

Quote:

I see one mention of digital audio out from a TV, though most of the TV's I have seen or my own TV does not have this facility, is this a new upcoming standard feature as HDMI becomes more ingrained?

The digital audio out on the TV goes along with CableCard in my view. In this scenario there is no other way to extract the audio from the TV. But of course the audio out on the TV could also act as a passthrough if audio were coming over HDMI.

Quote:

So far I am far from convinced that if buying a new TV HDMI is a must. The current status seems to point to DVI-D + HDCP as perfectly serviceable. Especially as the cable box supplying HD, and DVD player output is DVI-D, and receiver is Digital In. Other than this article, and related articles http://hardware.slashdot.org/article...33228&from=rss I have not seen too much regarding HD-DVD and BLU RAY early sets output format.

The current status to me seems to point to almost all newly introduced models are phasing out DVI connectors entirely in favor of HDMI. Though, I do agree that DVI/HDCP is perfectly serviceable if available.

 

[nameless33]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadRusch I thought HDMI couldn' t handle the bandwidth to carry 1080p video, but DVI could....

That sounds interesting. Can anyone confirm if HDMI has bandwidth problems when you load it up with a real 1080P signal and all the sound it can pump ?

 

[martyj19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nameless33 That sounds interesting. Can anyone confirm if HDMI has bandwidth problems when you load it up with a real 1080P signal and all the sound it can pump ?

Both DVI and HDMI have sufficient bandwidth for 1080p.

 

[HeadRusch]

My mistake, I guess its the HDMI controller chips which currently dont support 1080p......but will soon.