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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My JVC- 7800U has much richer, deeper color than my E-80 HDD recordings(and same after burn) on the same cable feed both s-video inputs. Plus the picture on the JVC recorded tape is larger after recording review- this could be due to compression? The color on the Fuji film is striking at SP. I don't think you can chock this up to the source or the monitor. Same feed recording , same Sony XBR-800 40 inch playback. My new theory is that there are no DVDR's out there yet that have conquered the color situation , the richness, the deepness that we should be getting on recording and playback. We have the resolution but not the colors when we burn.

PS- My $344 CC 985 A41 -March 2003 manufactured new supposed optical engine unit had the same problem- But no disc errors after 3 months! I am blessed but waiting for the epiphany at one year on that unit. I actually bought it as a test dummy. And I am serious. BTW - I love my two E-80's but I do think I am the only one who has directly compared the top of the line JVCs to various DVDRs- WE ALL know DVD is better for many things(compact,editing,etc) and we love them. BUT let me tell you they are about where Sony Betamax and JVC/Matsushita(Panasonic) were in 1986 comparably speaking quality resolution wise and where they can be. I still own 4 Sony BetaMaxes and they work after servicing them for years of course. DVDR is light years ahead. But I still maintain that the JVC S-VHS top enders at SP equals video resolution of the Panny DMR-E80H at SP speed which is what most people will record but JVC appears to exceed on color resolution. That is max color recorded on the media- forget adjusting the monitor- does not count.
 

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The color coming out of your JVC is oversaturated. It is not better. Possibly a better experiment is to buy a 2nd sony tv, and adjust the color control so the jvc picture matches the panny picture or vice versa.


If you want to test color accuracy, you will have to buy a colorimeter and a second dvd player, such as the Sony 999ES. Digital Video Essentials (dvd) is probably still mastered without macrovision, so you can record a colorbar test pattern on both s-vhs tape and the E80 via the 999ES. Watch the E80 using component video. Use the PIP feature of your sony to compare the jvc and E80 against the 999ES. Either using your own eyes or the colorimeter, you will see that the E80 is more accurate than the jvc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ollie - thanks - I will try that - makes sense, however - I am not sure it will totally compensate.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by HoustonGuy
But I still maintain that the JVC S-VHS top enders at SP equals video resolution of the Panny DMR-E80H at SP speed which is what most people will record but JVC appears to exceed on color resolution.
You're beginning to appear like a JVC shill with all these "S-VHS is better" threads that you been initiating.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JeffWld
You're beginning to appear like a JVC shill with all these "S-VHS is better" threads that you been initiating.
No kidding... every day it's another 'S-VHS is better than DVD-R'.... I'm wondering WHY this keeps getting waved in the DVD RECORDERS AREA.
 

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PQ is generally a subjective issue, especially when comparing an analog format against a digital one because of the apples to oranges nature (e.g., comparing chroma bleed vs. digital compression artifacts) and protracted online debate about which is better is somewhat pointless. Besides, as has been pointed out before, PQ is not the only consideration since there are advantages associated with the digital medium itself (e.g., direct access, menus, compact form factor, etc...). I think the subject has been pounded into the ground and everyone should agree to disagree (IOW, its up to every individual to make up their own mind about how they want to archive their programming and not have it dictated to them by someone else based on subjective, superlative statements). Thanks for the data point Houstonguy (we get it!), but everyone has to make up their own mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
jeffwild et al- Being a shill is the furthest motive I have. I love my E-80. But the points I have made about whether ANY present DVDR is superior to a high end S-VHS( that costs less than $300) when you put them on a test trial for PQ SP to SP are very valid. I would love to get 30 people in a room and do a comparison PQ vote, same system, on this test- I think you would be surprised. Why don't you fly to Houston, I will put you up and we can organize it? I got the equipment and the resources. Hell, you might teach me something.
 

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jeff,


Don't go, don't go to houston. Its a trap! :)


Seriously, Houston, you've made your point. Why is it so important to you to have to "prove" it. There are no absolutes here, only subjective opinions even if you put it to a vote. And frankly, what difference would it make to the avg joe reading this board? Like I've said, PQ is not the only reason why someone would pick DVDR vs. S-VHS.


A more pertinent question would be how the majority of people here rank PQ vs. other features/convience to the point that they would go to the trouble of getting the "perfect" recording of a football game or whatever even to the extent of regularly (vs. occasionally) spreading a three hour program out on multiple XP disks vs. a single disk SP or LP DVD recording vs. tape. I would hazard that the majority of people wouldn't obsess about PQ for OTR recordings to the extent of exhaustive DVD vs. VHS side-by-side comparisons and connection/reconnection of s-video vs. composite cables. I could be wrong though (and I frequently am, the black level bug is a good example).
 

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Quote:
A more pertinent question would be how the majority of people here rank PQ vs. other features/convience to the point that they would go to the trouble of getting the "perfect" recording of a football game
Exactly. Try finding a portable SVHS player with a built-in LCD screen or a laptop that will play that SVHS tape. Try making copies of your SVHS tape on a PC. Try finding any family/friends that have a machine capable of playing that SVHS format tape.


I removed my JVC SVHS deck from the home theater rack when I purchased the Panasonic E80. The VCR only gets brought out now if I need to dub an old VHS tape to DVD-R.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Scott- you are bringing up extraneous crap not even related to the post.


Vferrari- features and convenience are important to all of us. In fact that is what makes the E-80 so great. But PQ IS the ultimate desirable and the E-80 is there on XP. But that is only one hour. I fully expect a DVDR to kill a S-VHS recorder in an SP to SP race for 2 hours of video. Does not everyone here? Call me an agitator, but somebody has to ask these questions. If not me no one would. I want a bunch of people to look, watch and decide in a controlled double blind environment whether any current DVDR can better at SP an upper end S-VHS VCR. Only 5% of the DVDR owners are going to use XP or HQ for 2 to 3 hour movies, I would venture. SP is the mode to compare.
 

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Quote:
the E-80 is there on XP. But that is only one hour


The only way to get XP quality (i.e., bitrate) for a two hour recording on a single disk would be to press a dual layer disk and this capability is not available to consumers (they can't be "burned" hence consumer DVD burners cannot produce them) so Panasonic and the other DVD R manufacturers are bound by this inherent technical limitation. This will probably go away with the widespread adoption of HD recording using Blu-Ray disc technology.


Vic
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by grizbear
HoustonGuy, Try your comparisons on a 53 " to 65" RP display. What you perceive on the 40" Sony [a great monitor] may not hold up.
It doesn't even hold up on a 14" studio reference monitor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Vf- Does the movie industry forbid dual layer, 2 hour XP? Why do manufacturers not make this capability? Just curious. BTW great explanation- You know your video. Can my wife and I sleep over for intelligence briefings. :)
 

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Vf- Does the movie industry forbid dual layer, 2 hour XP? Why do manufacturers not make this capability?
The equipment is cost prohibitive for consumers and is designed for mass production of commercial DVD's. These disks don't use phase change materials or dyes that can be manipulated by burner lasers.
 
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