Why no integrated satellite!? Stupid Stupid!

661 Views 20 Replies 14 Participants Last post by BrettStah, May 3, 2002

Dobber

Discussion Starter · May 2, 2002

OK so I've been a showstopper and cable user for some time. I chose it over Tivo because it was a superior product. Enough said! Now I have moved and the cable where I live is abysmal! So I have now switched to DirecTV. I have never been able to really work either my Sony A55 or A65 to work as well as it did with my cable box. Nonetheless, I was still satisfied with this arrangement until...

When staying with a friend for a while, I got to try out his DirecTivo for a week. All I can say is WOW. The integration is seamless! I still love my Showstopper and prefer it to a standalone Tivo, but Holy Church of Simplicity Batman, that arrangement is really tough to beat. Now I feel like I'm missing something in my TV viewing life! While I was somewhat ignorant to what I was missing before, now it seems like Rio's product people are walking around with blinders on by ignoring this market.

So my question, if it hasn't been asked before, is WHY on God's green earth did ReplayTV NOT take this to DirecTV and get a deal done? They CANNOT compete effectively with an internal digitally recorded solution that is seamlessly integrated. Seems they are eliminating a significant portion of the TV viewing audience by ignoring this avenue. I seem to remember reading here, a LONG time ago, that Tivo had an exclusive, but if UTV could get the deal done??? I love my Showstopper, but now I REALLY want it to be integrated with my DirecTV box!! WHY...OH WHY can't it be? Someone please explain, or is it just that no one ever bothered to call them and ask for it?!!

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1 - 20 of 21 Posts

majortom

· #2 · May 2, 2002

DirecTv's new deal with TiVo would make this difficult to start with, but RePlayTV features like show sending, video extraction, and probably Commercial Advance would be prohibited by DirecTv's contracts with their content providers.

I would not hold my breath waiting for this.

/carmi

gweempose

· #3 · May 2, 2002

Dobber,

I completely agree with you. SONICblue better get their act together if they want to compete in today's cutthroat world of consumer electronics. ReplayTV would achieve a much better market penetration if it was integrated into satellite receivers and digital cable boxes. In my opinion, they should be focusing all of their efforts on making this happen. Even if they don't make the equipment themselves, they should license their software to companies like Motorola, JVC, Scientific Atlanta, etc... SONICblue has put a lot of time and effort into creating a slick, relatively bug-free interface. I would think that others would be willing to pay them a premium for this.

arjay

· #4 · May 3, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Dobber
....my question, if it hasn't been asked before, is WHY on God's green earth did ReplayTV NOT take this to DirecTV and get a deal done?

You're asking for a BIG DEAL! ReplayTV's 45XX model is not a BIG DEAL; it's a minor technical refinement of ReplayTV's product.

Perhaps SonicBlue will eventually provide an integrated DBS or digital cable DVR. I'd tend to think that any new big deals regarding DBS DVR's won't take place until after the proposed DBS merger is resolved.

BTW, ReplayTV's EPG would be greatly enhanced with a view window. Hopefully creating such is only a medium sized deal.

jtl

· #5 · May 3, 2002

I think they're trying, and have tried, and will probably keep trying. They announced a deal with Motorola, that's gone nowhere. They got out of the hardware biz once, focussing entirely on licensing, and weren't able to get any traction.

Re view window in EPG: I'd not be surprised if that came soon to a 4000 near you.

TomCat

· #6 · May 3, 2002

I guess I don't know what I'm missing. I have a 501, which is "seamless" with DISH. I also have a SS married to a 4700 receiver, and it operates just as "seamlessly" as the 501. Once you set it up and solve all of the IR issues (which are minor for most folks) what more do you need? I also have a Tivo (SA) but I hate the interface and grid and it is anything BUT seamless, so its essentially a boat anchor.

The 501 has a "view window", but I opted to turn that option off. It doesn't really add anything to the experience. When I want to surf the guide I don't want to divide my attention with trying to watch something, and vice versa. Over-rated.

BrettStah

· #7 · May 3, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by TomCat
I guess I don't know what I'm missing.

Two tuners, for starters...

arjay

· #8 · May 3, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by TomCat
....I have a 501, which is "seamless" with DISH. I also have a SS married to a 4700 receiver, and it operates just as "seamlessly" as the 501....I also have a Tivo (SA) but I hate the interface and grid and it is anything BUT seamless, so its essentially a boat anchor.

The 501 has a "view window", but I opted to turn that option off....

"One man's meat is another man's poison."

I also have a 501. But I like the view window option. The full guide is fine but it cuts out the audio when selected. I like using an EPG much better than a "browse banner".

How does your channel changing interval compare between your 501 and your SS/4700 combo. Didn't your 4700 upgrade to the 4900's and 501's EPG, BTW? Are "downloading info" delays a hassle with the 4700?

IR works but it's a clunky solution. I need to be able to both control my equipment remotely and from a handheld remote. I had to disable my Dish equipment's UHF capabilities because it caused conflicts with the IR.

I have a Dishplayer as well as a 501 to provide dual tuner DBS capabilities. Also use a SA DVR for recording (won't say which but it's a four letter word and is a great officially designated "boat anchor"!) from line inputs or OTA. It is not set up to control the DBS equipment.

I'm quite satisfied with the set-up but wish ReplayTV's 4500 could be used as a boat anchor--I'd like to try it out. I have a couple of RTV's 3XXX's I'm not currently using. Lack of a cooling fan and RF out was an unnecessary low tech hassle. Unfortunately only one non fan cooled DVR, the Dishplayer, can go on the top of the stack.

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alyosha

· #9 · May 3, 2002

So you are unhappy that there is no satellite product from replayTV. I can offer my condolences. However you go on to conclusion that it would be a a good business decision for replayTV to offer such product- because you would buy it. Let me ask - what is in the future of the satellite market? How big is a customer base, compared to cable? What will happen with DirectTV deal, when DTV will finally be sold to Dish and Dish will make everyone ot exchange hardware for their own (they are not going to let Tivo on that- they have their own product). Ok, maybe not exchange the hardware, but stop supporting it, so when you have a problem - instead of repair they let you pick up a new unit...

Does it still seem like something ReplayTV should get into? I didnt think so...

Dobber

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 3, 2002

Truly integrated gives you quality benefits as well. For example today the DirecTivo box is just one clean transfer:

Satellite Digital bits -> Recorder -> Dig to Analog conv -> TV

ReplayTV on the other hand is forced to do this:

Satallite Ditital bits -> D to A -> A to D -> Recorder -> D to A -> TV

Let no one fool you, all this D/A and A/D is BAD!

They could probably make the hardware cheaper, exclusive of the Satellite parts. All in all this is probably a win-win cost wise for both sides.

I just wish my Showstopper would integrate like this. Say what you want about the interface quirks and goofy layout of the Tivo, in the satellite world it is tough to beat.

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DrJoe

· #11 · May 3, 2002

There are pluses and minuses for everything --

Let's say you purchase your DirecReplay, and then you switch to digital cable. Or your DishReplay and then switch to ExpressVu.

All you have left is a doorstop.

With the stand-alone Replays and TiVos, you have a very flexible system. I think ReplayTV is more flexible than TiVo, but I'm a biased ReplayTV owner.

While more flexible, you lose quality -- as you point out a dedicated system requires less A/D and D/A conversions.

There is a place for both types of units -- but I think you underestimate the difficulty of breaking in to the various receiver markets.

There are only five main players -- DirecTV, DishNetwork, Pioneer, Motorola, and Scientific Atlanta (the latter three are the only manufacturers of digital cable boxes that I am aware of). The opportunity to partner with such a limited number of producers is low -- deals tend to be exclusive. DirecTV aside (with Ultimate TV and TiVo), the other companies ALL seem to be in exclusive deals. DishNetwork makes their own, and Scientific Atlanta and Motorola both have announced exclusive partnerships for manufacturing their own boxes. I would think that breaking into this market in a "hostile" fashion could be VERY expensive -- I don't want to BEGIN looking into the patent landscape for digital cable receivers.

Does anyone know how involved anymore ReplayTV is with the (presumably) forthcoming DCT pvr/receiver combos?

Joe

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Dobber

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 3, 2002

A few months back I was extoling the virtues of ReplayTV to my local Circuit City goon, and he informed me that they sell 5 DirecTivos for every 'regular' Tivo. Assuming this holds true everywhere, there should be more satellite Tivos than non. Good evidence of this demand: there were dozens of the new Tivo 2's laying around, but open box DirecTivos (that's all they had left), were selling for WAY over the original list price from 3-4 months ago, around $400 bucks! OUCH! Imagine if Replay could double their market share. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but VERY WISHFUL! Also, in todays world, no product needs to have more than 3-5 years of longevity. I also think that given an even playing field, ReplayTV would rule the consumer, but in satellite, even it is NOT!

alyosha

· #13 · May 3, 2002

Dobbler- I don't want to make it personal flame - but - there is absolutely no logic to what you claim whatsoever. Maybe it would suit you to go and extol the virtues of Tivo, relying on what CC drones tell you in the Tivo forum?

Don't compare replayTV units to satellite units, compare them to standalone Tivos. Discuss virtues of using standalone or integrated unit separately. They sell more DirectTivos than standalones for many various reasons- DirectTivos were on sale for 50 bucks (subsidized by DirectTV which tried to drum up subscribers- before being sold to Dish), only one fee for no matter how many units you got, the fee is smaller (don't forget that), if you have DirectTV there is really no alternative than DirectTivo, but if you have cable you can/could choose between Tivo and replayTV .

Why somebody would even consider making hardware to support the company (DirectTV ) which is already sold, and will seize to exist in the observable future.

Anyway- I am an animal rights activist and I am placing you under arrest for beating the dead horse.

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chiefwahl

· #14 · May 3, 2002

From what I know of Directtivio, it records the plain digital signal from the DSS channel and there is no mpeg decoder/encoder in the system. That means, you cannot use it to record off-air channels, dvd, vcr etc. In addition, you cannot retrieve the mpeg file and save for your own archive because there is no mpeg file involved.

Do we want this kind of system? I don't.

Lori

· #15 · May 3, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by chiefwahl
From what I know of Directtivio, it records the plain digital signal from the DSS channel and there is no mpeg decoder/encoder in the system. That means, you cannot use it to record off-air channels, dvd, vcr etc. In addition, you cannot retrieve the mpeg file and save for your own archive because there is no mpeg file involved.

Do we want this kind of system? I don't.

It has no encoder but it has a decoder. Otherwise, how would it play on your TV?

gregggreg

· #16 · May 3, 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by chiefwahl
From what I know of Directtivio, it records the plain digital signal from the DSS channel and there is no mpeg decoder/encoder in the system. That means, you cannot use it to record off-air channels, dvd, vcr etc. In addition, you cannot retrieve the mpeg file and save for your own archive because there is no mpeg file involved.

Do we want this kind of system? I don't.

You are incorrect. There is no MPEG encoder, this is true. There is, however, an MPEG decoder because the digital signal from the satellite is MPEG-2.

You can absolutely retrieve the MPEG file and save it for your own archive. Perhaps you should do more research next time before you spread incorrect assumptions publically.

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BrettStah

· #17 · May 3, 2002

alyosha, in a recent "Charlie Chat", the CEO of Echostar said that Tivos would continue to be supported... remember also that DirecTV just recently signed a 5 year deal with Tivo to make Tivo their preferred PVR provider. A brand new DirecTivo Series2 is in the works for release in a few months.

dkan24

· #18 · May 3, 2002

how can you save the file for your own archive? Are you talking about recording it on to a vcr? Or the very expensive (if it even exists) SDI mod?

I know that directivo went to great lengths to make sure you could not get to that signal- digitally.

If you are talking about dumping it to tape then obviously that is possible. But that was cool like 10 years ago

Dobber

Discussion Starter · #19 · May 3, 2002

My whole point here was that I think it is really a shame that ReplayTV, of which I am a HUGE fan, has nothing that competes with DirecTivo in price, quality, or ease of use. I was just wondering why this was the case, or if there is any move afoot to change it. It just seems like this market could possibly be giving Tivo a huge leg up in the overall subscriber acquisition play. Seems like if they really wanted to, they could get into this market, UTV did after all.

I was not comparing basic Tivo to ReplayTV as that horse is definately dead. My point is that they don't even seem to really have a dog in the race for satellite subs, or their dog is really a hunting dog. I was wondering why and if it may ever change. Sheesh! Ease up a bit ayatollah.....

Jeff D

· #20 · May 3, 2002

First, I don't agree that Tivo has an exclusive contract with Directv, ultimateTV supports Directv, so there are other players.

The TL850 in the 4k units can decode directv streams. So, there is no need for new hardware. Software, yeah. That would be so cool if they would just enable it!!!

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