[sage11x]

Interesting little blurb over at ign: http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1191484p1.html


Personally, I agree with Miyamoto. I'm sitting here staring at my copy of Metroid Prime trilogy in it's shiny metal tin wondering if I would have actually played it had it only been in HD and not 480p...


I'm a snob, I know...

 

[darklordjames]

They better port the two Mario Galaxies and Metroid Prime Trilogy to Wii U in 1080p. I will buy them again.

 

[voodoozen]

For we folks behind a corporate safety net, can someone post a bit of the article? Or at least the relevant bits

Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames /forum/post/20887505


They better port the two Mario Galaxies and Metroid Prime Trilogy to Wii U in 1080p. I will buy them again.

I would seriously buy a console just for this.



-vdz

 

[DaverJ]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x /forum/post/20887440


Interesting little blurb over at ign: http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1191484p1.html


Personally, I agree with Miyamoto. I'm sitting here staring at my copy of Metroid Prime trilogy in it's shiny metal tin wondering if I would have actually played it had it only been in HD and not 480p...


I'm a snob, I know...

I don't agree with Miyamoto, but I'm with you - I don't turn on the Wii, mainly for the same reason I don't tune into any of the SD channels on cable. It IS good to hear him say lack of HD on the Wii was a missed opportunity.

 

[ThisOneKidMongo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoozen /forum/post/20888158


For we folks behind a corporate safety net, can someone post a bit of the article? Or at least the relevant bits

-vdz

Here you go:

Quote:
Speaking in a special edition of Iwata Asks, Nintendo CEO Satoru Iwata and Shigeru Miyamoto talked, amongst other things, about the perceptions of the Wii as a casual console.


"Shortly after the Wii console was released, people in the gaming media and game enthusiasts started recognising the Wii console as a casual machine aimed toward families," said Iwata. "And placed game consoles by Microsoft and Sony in a very similar light with each other, saying these are machines aimed towards those who passionately play games.


"It was a categorisation between games that were aimed towards core and casual."


Unfortunately, the Wii was unable to bridge this incipient divide. Iwata even admitted that the Wii failed to meet the expectations of 'core' gamers. "I certainly do not think that Wii was able to cater to every gamer's needs," he said. "So that's also something I wanted to resolve."


So how will the Wii U stop itself from being perceived as another casual console? Well, Miyamoto believes that the Wii U's ability to output in HD will help.


"One of the key reasons that such things as the core and the casual exist today is that we decided not to adopt HD on the Wii console," Miyamoto said. "Of course, besides that there are things like issues with the controller and the challenges that it brings, network functionalities and many other things, but I think HD was the biggest factor that everyone was able to clearly understand the difference."

I dunno, the lack of HD was shortsighted but really only become a factor in the past year or two. What really marked it as "casual" was the marketing and the general type of games. I kinda feel like you need to release a ton of FPS games if you want to capture the "hardcore" market.

 

[voodoozen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisOneKidMongo Here you go: I dunno, the lack of HD was shortsighted but really only become a factor in the past year or two. What really marked it as "casual" was the marketing and the general type of games. I kinda feel like you need to release a ton of FPS games if you want to capture the "hardcore" market.

Thanks, Mongo.


I totally agree, the reason Wii didn't win with the hardcore set is because of the marketing and the extremely lop-sided number of casual games available, first party included. He's dead wrong if he thinks the gaming media made that distinction unfairly, though.


Having said that, it sounds like he realizes a lack of polygons and processing power left the Wii unable to get ports or exclusives of games that would draw core gamers in, which left them with little BUT the causal... so now I wonder if Nintendo is willing to admit that their marketing strategy, portfolio of IPs, relationships with third parties, internet and eShop setup, trophies and achievements, as WELL as HD are in need of a sizable overhaul if they want to win back serious gamers.


Reminds me of what EA said recently regarding a Playstation 4, essentially, "It ain't gonna get that much better guys, shut up and enjoy what you have". He even mentioned Nintendo, inasmuch as he thinks they'll finally get some HD developer love...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EA dev Frank Gibeau via CVG.com It's hard for me to conceive what you would do on a PlayStation 4.The displays are already 1080p, you're already connected to the internet.You could make it faster, you could have more polys and you could up the graphics a little bit... but at what cost? The way the business used to run where you had these big console transitions just isn't happening anymore. They're much longer, the online capabilities are making the way customers interact within the audience very different from when we went from PSOne to PS2. I think that [the age of] big, abrupt change in consoles where we all pile in on top of each other and everything changes overnight is just gone. One of the things that we like is that the technology is consistent, and we believe that there are still things that you can do on these systems... we haven't quite squeezed the last once of hardware horsepower out of these things, as you can see with Battlefield 3. Frostbite 2 technology coming in can do some really interesting things that nobody is able to do, and you see some great stuff coming from our competitors too I'd like to see the cycle last a little longer. I don't see consumers right now banging on the walls for a new platform. They seem to be very happy with their PS3s and 360s. They love the online connectivity, they have great communities and great libraries. "I like the fact that Nintendo's coming in with new hardware. That'll help really rev up their business for the HD side, which is where we're in a really good position

 

[Mr. Audio]

You know, Nintendo is really starting to piss me off. It seems Nintendo's way is now to start apologizing for everything and suck up to the people they alienated due to the fact that their gravy train known as the Wii has finally come to a screeching halt. That's not the way you do it. You don't go 5 years ignoring what the masses wanted and expected from you, and then say you're sorry.


Don't get me wrong. I have a Wii and I like it alot. I thought the Wii had some excellent games that you can't find anywhere else as well as stellar controls for great FPS like Medal of Honor Heroes 2, COD4, and Goldeneye. Short sighted on the fact that the console was not HD, but that didn't mean they had to make the Wii an overclocked Gamecube. Despite the resolution, Nintendo could have produced a much more powerful console that could do much higher res textures and better AA. Hell throw in a digital output for discrete 5.1 surround like all the last gen consoles had atleast. No, they overclocked existing hardware and reshelled it. They said the Wii would be upgrading gameplay instead of graphics when many wanted and was expecting both.


The reason it did not appeal to the core is because of not just the graphics, but all the abominable third party titles that Nintendo allowed to flood their library to the point of that's all you can see when you look at the shelf! You have to literally DIG the good stuff out. All the shovelware titles sported gimmick controls and graphics that wouldn't even make a N64 owner jealous. There was not a single bit of quality control at all. Nintendo let it happen because it was selling like crazy.


What's Nintendo going to do now that they've made all this money and traded their old fan base for the fickle casuals who show no loyalty? Start cutting highly inflated prices and begging for forgiveness after it's all done ain't the right way. I can't stand a company who can't stand by their decisions like they didn't know what they were doing. They knew, they just couldn't turn away all that green to invest it into the future. Well the future is here, and Nintendo is just now addressing the complaints that many gamers have had with them for years. Good luck Nintendo, you're gonna need it.

 

[Troubleshooter]

I've had a Wii since launch day. Bought a bunch of games in the first year. Then I realized that most of them are equivalent to Flash games I can play for free on 5 year old PC. Really.And only in stereo. Now the big deal titles like Metroid, the Marios' etc are indeed good games but man, most of them are beyond crap. AT $50 EACH! They certainly changed the world with the Wiimote motion concept but at the same time, playing something other than Wii Sports just showed how much of a hack it really was.


-Trouble

 

[binici]

Makes sense, but they did cash in early and I believe that's all that counts... for Nintendo.

 

[Big Wes]

I think the Wii is the worst Nintendo console released thus far. This is coming from a guy who has owned pretty much every Nintendo console and handheld (including the Virtual Boy). Nintendo has great original IPs, but they've really phoned in the past few iterations of their franchises. Even when they've tried to push the envelope with something like the Other M, it's fallen far short of the best of this generation of games. Add in the absolute flurry of shovelware (Crap Minigame Fest Iteration 99, anyone?) and its easy to see why Nintendo has failed to capture the "Core" audience. That's not the audience Nintendo wanted. They wanted to put the Wii in the living room of someone who never owned a console before, and the hardcore gamers could be damned. When the economy tanked, these causal gamers drastically reduced their video game expenditures while the hardcore gamers that owned the Wii languished waiting for the good games to drop. No wonder the Wii's attach rate sucks...


Another big weakness Nintendo has is storytelling. Video games are an evolving interactive medium. I love Mario, Samus, and Link as much as anyone, but lately, the games have been "meh" at best in making me feel attached to the characters and invested in the game's storyline. Even though technology has advanced, Nintendo's games don't feel like they've changed much since 1999 except for a few graphical upgrades. The most exciting moments in any of the past few entries in the Mario or Zelda franchies pale in comparison to way games like Metal Gear Solid 4, Heavy Rain, or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West have created an engrossing interactive story. Nintendo has all of the pieces: great IPs with well developed "universes," talented developers, and ample development resources. Why their games feel so stale is beyond me.


I've logged thousands of hours with the NES, SNES, N64, and the Gamecube. I consider myself a extremely hardcore gamer. However, the Wii has left me feeling unsatisfied and disappointed. The Wii U is going to have to be something extraordinary to win me back. Heck, they could even start with Skyward Sword, but I'm not holding my breath at this point. Prove me wrong Nintendo, prove me wrong.

 

[number1laing]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Wes /forum/post/0


The most exciting moments in any of the past few entries in the Mario or Zelda franchies pale in comparison to way games like Metal Gear Solid 4, Heavy Rain, or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West have created an engrossing interactive story.

I think it's fair to say I totally disagree with this, the idea that Zelda compares unfavorably towards crap like Heavy Rain or Enslaved is simply alien to me.


It sounds like you want Nintendo to become not-Nintendo. Nintendo's games emphasize mechanics and play experience. It's why all their stuff runs at 60fps while every other developer is content with inconsistent 30. It's why their games have razor sharp control and refined level design. It's why Nintendo is not afraid of making their games harder (NSMB, DKCR, Galaxy 2) while everyone else is making them easier.


Not many companies make games like Nintendo anymore, but that doesn't mean they need to change. I wish more developers would embrace Nintendo's philosophy actually. If you don't like their games anymore, then just move on.

 

[Big Wes]

We'll have to agree to disagree

. I wasn't holding up Enslaved or Heavy Rain as shining examples of great games. What I was holding them up as was ways that developers are using the medium to tell stories in a creative and immersive fashion. I felt more connected to the characters in Enslaved (watching the dynamics of the relationship between Trip and Monkey develop) and I was more immersed in the way the plot of Heavy Rain played out than I have been in any of the last few iterations of any of the Big N's major franchises. I think that's sad since Mario, Link, and Samus are characters that I have loved pretty much all of my life--I got my NES in early 1986 after we couldn't find one at Christmas. I was eight. I'm not a fair weather fan. I'm a life long fan who is disappointed in the Wii.


I wasn't trying to thread crap. I was just stating my opinion about why Nintendo's lost the core gamer. I really think they could be positioning Skyward Sword as a way to recapture some of the lost core audience and generate some hype for possibilities of the Wii U.

 

[number1laing]

We could keep going in circles. The fact that Nintendo's games prioritize control, framerate, and playability over bloated stories is what keeps me around. Like I said, I wish more developers prioritized things the way Nintendo does.


Nintendo's games still sell many many millions - even DKCR, a lesser franchise in their canon really, sold like 7 million copies. It's a really great game, even if the story is nonexistent. I think anyone who calls themselves a "core gamer" should at least try it. Most of them would love it.


The problem with the Wii is that Nintendo basically tossed their loyal fans crumbs for years and by the time they started pumping out lots of great games it was too late (basically, last year). From 2006 through the end of 2009 we pretty much just got Mario Kart, Galaxy, NSMB, and SSBB. All fun games, but it's tough to keep someone around for 5 years with 4 games. That one year when their top title was friggin Wii Music was when they lost me for a while.

 

[voodoozen]



Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing /forum/post/20899233


The problem with the Wii is that Nintendo basically tossed their loyal fans crumbs for years and by the time they started pumping out lots of great games it was too late (basically, last year). From 2006 through the end of 2009 we pretty much just got Mario Kart, Galaxy, NSMB, and SSBB. All fun games, but it's tough to keep someone around for 5 years with 4 games. That one year when their top title was friggin Wii Music was when they lost me for a while.

Not to continue the circle... but why not

Nintendo may have a knack for solid gameplay, but they've seriously become the Statler and Waldorf of gaming, especially in the way they approached the Wii and 3DS. These days I'm running alarmingly low on my formerly incessant, near-rabid support for Nintendo offerings. I own a ton of first party Wii titles and I'm sure I'll buy Zelda, but I'm finding myself more interested in backtracking through GCN, N64 and SNES titles than many recent Wii first-party games these days. Which is a sign that I'm a) obviously way behind the cool kids and b) Ninty isn't really trying anymore.


So, ok, Big N titles are assured to be at the least competent games -if sometimes lacking fun (Wii Music is a great example)- but they're usually well produced, tightly controlled and boast steady framerates. Problem is, that's all possible elsewhere. N's published game after game with gross overuse of retreaded concepts, done little terms of imagination or expanding to the next level like they used to.


Motion controls, awesome. SMG, amazing. Past that? I can't think of the last time Nintendo made me stop and truly admire a game; the style, the story, immersing me like a movie or book. That's really where PS360 won the core, they were able to support creative games with more than just "run to the right" or "Now with New Hat!" improvements. Well, that and FPS space marines online play, but hey.


I remember playing through Metroids, Zeldas, Marios and being attached to the game and wanting to see what was next... and somehow each new sequel was just different enough to be new and unique from the last. I'm not getting that feeling anymore from SSBB, Zelda, DKCR, etc., meanwhile friends playing Oblivion, Red Dead Redemption, Bioshock, LBP, Uncharted are raving about the state of games... I know Ninty's got it in 'em, but I don't think I've seen it in full force since, wow, Metroid Prime maybe.


And for any young'uns who didn't get the reference:

http://imgur.com/wOUss.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

 

[Big Wes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoozen /forum/post/20912992


I know Ninty's got it in 'em

There's no doubt in my mind that Nintendo can make one heck of a game. I know that my first couple of posts in this thread seemed harsh, but that's honestly the way I feel. And to be honest, Nintendo doesn't make the type of games I like to play any more, so I've been spending my limited gaming time and budget on my PS3. A game like Uncharted make me feel like I'm playing a movie. The graphics, the sound, the plot, the pacing, and the production values create a synergy that exceeds the sum of the parts. It's an epic experience that leaves me wanting more.


A series like Mario will always be a little light on the plot and storytelling, but heavy on the fun. I understand that. But there is no reason why games like Zelda or Metroid shouldn't be epic. Nathan Drake or even Solid Snake are great characters, but in my opinion, Link and Samus are among the top videogame heroes of all time. Link is the holder of the Triforce of Courage and his heroic exploits have spanned generations and even transcended time itself. Samus Aran has traveled the galaxy in search of profit and is probably second only to Han Solo in the ability to get herself into (and out of) tight spots. Not to mention she has a bad-a$$ suit of armor designed by an extinct race of bird people (okay...maybe that last part isn't so exciting). I got pumped up just typing this. Why can't Nintendo get pumped enough to create something new and exciting for these franchises?


Obviously Nintendo recognizes that to maintain its dominance in these harsher economic times, it needs the hardcore gamer because he or she continues to spend disposable income on gaming because its his or her hobby of choice. Skyward Sword is the logical first step in wooing back the hardcore gamer. It worries me that a lot of the focus on SS has been he 1:1 sword control (more accurate waggle, anyone?) and the fact that you now have a flying bug thingy that you can control. Yeah, that trailer where Link jumps off the floating island caught my eye, but that's not much to go on and release day is drawing nigh. If some of the guys on here I trust (like Mongo, VDZ, jwebb) say that it's good, I'll probably spend another Thanksgiving lost in a Zelda game. I actually missed Thanksgiving dinner with my mom and dad one year because I sat up until 10:00 AM playing OoT. Those leftovers were sure good though....lol.

 

[voodoozen]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Wes /forum/post/20913990


A series like Mario will always be a little light on the plot and storytelling, but heavy on the fun. I understand that. But there is no reason why games like Zelda or Metroid shouldn't be epic. Nathan Drake or even Solid Snake are great characters, but in my opinion, Link and Samus are among the top videogame heroes of all time. Link is the holder of the Triforce of Courage and his heroic exploits have spanned generations and even transcended time itself. Samus Aran has traveled the galaxy in search of profit and is probably second only to Han Solo in the ability to get herself into (and out of) tight spots. Not to mention she has a bad-a$$ suit of armor designed by an extinct race of bird people (okay...maybe that last part isn't so exciting). I got pumped up just typing this. Why can't Nintendo get pumped enough to create something new and exciting for these franchises?

If there were a way to email you a cold brew and a high five, I'd be doing it right now.


Exactly my thoughts- well said!

 

[randalthor]

Perhaps Nintendo could win back the core gamers with their actions, instead of just words. If they truly want to win back core gamers, why not release Xenoblade and The Last Story, here in America? These are games that the core has been begging for.


Come on Nintendo, put your money where your mouth is, and release these games.

 

[ThisOneKidMongo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Wes /forum/post/20913990


A game like Uncharted make me feel like I'm playing a movie.

See, nothing against Uncharted specifically, but when I game, I don't WANT to feel like I'm playing a movie. I want to feel like I'm playing a game. Trying too hard to be movies has been an ugly gaming trend way back since FFVII, and it drives me crazy, because frankly, most game developers are incredibly ******, overly indulgent filmmakers. Metal Gear is the poster child for bloated, pretentious cutscenes that sometimes literally happen every two steps, and thus the only way I could hate Metal Gear more is if it killed my mom. And Heavy Rain was an interesting experiment, but looking back it basically felt like a busted DVD player that needed you to press an uncomfortable combination of buttons every so often to keep the movie playing. And this is aside from the drop-dead hilarious acting, plotting, and god-awful twist.


Besides that though, there are games out there that tell great stories in a way that could only be told by games, such as Silent Hill Wii, Metroid Prime, and No More Heroes. Do Nintendo's franchises need to be shaken up? Sure, but making them look and sound like every other "AAA" game is not the answer. Okay, maybe Metroid could be OK if made more "epic" (though Other M tried that, and that didn't work out so good), but the instant say, Ganon opens his mouth and haltingly delivers some overlong speech about what makes a soul while some generic Hans Zimmer stuff plays in the background, I'm done. I see the phrase "...and Nolan North as Link, Jennifer Hale as Zelda" somewhere, I'm done.


That said, I do think you're right in that Nintendo does need a lot of "movie games" on their console, because regardless of what I want, that does seem to be the type of thing that hardcore gamers want to play. Still though, leave that to third parties, or better yet, make an original, mature-skewing IP for that, to show they're serious about going after the hardcore. But just keep it out of my childhood franchises.

 

[number1laing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by voodoozen I remember playing through Metroids, Zeldas, Marios and being attached to the game and wanting to see what was next... and somehow each new sequel was just different enough to be new and unique from the last. I'm not getting that feeling anymore from SSBB, Zelda, DKCR, etc., meanwhile friends playing Oblivion, Red Dead Redemption, Bioshock, LBP, Uncharted are raving about the state of games... I know Ninty's got it in 'em, but I don't think I've seen it in full force since, wow, Metroid Prime maybe.

I've played Uncharted, LBP, Bioshock, and Oblivion extensively. DKCR and SSBB are so much better than all of them. I could go into detail here but I guess that's not the point. Maybe I'm just out of step with what is popular.


I didn't care for Twilight Princess, but Wind Waker was really excellent though, a truly awesome game. We'll see with Skyward Sword.


Nintendo actually tried to do all the things you mention with Other M... look at how it turned out. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. The last Metroid game I put a lot of time into was Zero Mission and it was really great. The Prime series is done and I doubt they will outsource this series again. We'll have to see what happens next. It's not like they need to come out with these games all the time - no Metroid on N64.


Galaxy 2 is as good as anything I've played the past few years. So I don't know. Mario & Luigi on DS is also a really sharp game.


I do wish they'd do a proper Star Fox 3, and another Waverace, and so forth. I guess there is nothing to do but wait and see.

 

[voodoozen]



Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing /forum/post/20917590


I've played Uncharted, LBP, Bioshock, and Oblivion extensively. DKCR and SSBB are so much better than all of them. I could go into detail here but I guess that's not the point. Maybe I'm just out of step with what is popular.


I didn't care for Twilight Princess, but Wind Waker was really excellent though, a truly awesome game. We'll see with Skyward Sword.


Nintendo actually tried to do all the things you mention with Other M... look at how it turned out. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. The last Metroid game I put a lot of time into was Zero Mission and it was really great. The Prime series is done and I doubt they will outsource this series again. We'll have to see what happens next. It's not like they need to come out with these games all the time - no Metroid on N64.

No way SSBB is better than Uncharted or LBP, man. It's a waggle-y mess and the third time they've gone to the well with the 'franchise characters beat up other franchise characters, hooray!" idea. Not even close to something as original as it was when it came out, let alone enjoyable anymore. SB was an N64 title. If Bioshock is still around in 3 generations and 2K have us doing laps in "Rapture Karts: Racing!", we'll beg for a .357 and just one bullet each...


And Nintendo messed up Other M. I was so close to thinking it was great, the first 2 hours are good... but that's only because I love Metroid, I've played and replayed every single one save Hunters and Pinball... but it wasn't epic in any way, it was piss poor fanfic dragging down a great concept with bad pacing and ridiculous attempts at a plot that no one asked for. I'd be sad to say I played it except the graphics were awesome and the last helmet-retrieve segment was picture perfect. It's sadly a prime example (pun intended) of how Ninty is clearly missing the point when they have a great opportunity; it started out bang on with a Dead Space meets Metroid AAA feel and somehow devolved into a sad 'MGS in space' parody of Samus' former, more awesome, legacy.


Mama Drama anime wannabe is not epic. Wind Waker's waterfall Gannon battle was epic. Those two aren't even in the same league

Quote:
Galaxy 2 is as good as anything I've played the past few years. So I don't know. Mario & Luigi on DS is also a really sharp game.


I do wish they'd do a proper Star Fox 3, and another Waverace, and so forth. I guess there is nothing to do but wait and see.

Now we can be friends again. SMG 1 & 2 are the best games ever created, and I doubt I'll ever find a gaming experience close to what I loved about those games. Waverace is long overdue and SF should be a given. Please Nintendo?