[Reginald Trent]

First let me say....I WILL NOT BUY ANY COMBO HD DVD. I don't care if it's HD with DVD or HD with Blu-ray. I'll rent them from BB or Netflix but NEVER buy. Warner's defection to Blu-ray will mean companies will not be able to tell which format the person supports even if HD DVD is why it was bought. This is especially critical if/when HD DVD enjoys a extreme edge in the install base of players. Companies will not be able to tell that Blu-ray is the unprofitable useless format on the disc. Therefore, propting up blu-ray when it should otherwise vanish, ala betamax. HD DVD owners would be unwittingly contibuting to an extended format war at greater expense than necessary.

 

[hmurchison]

I agree with the point about the numbers obsfuscation. That could also help us though. Say that there's a title Warner ships that sells like mad yet we may have an idea that it's Blu-ray dominated. HD DVD still gets to benefit from it because that's a piece of media that is out there that supports HD DVD players.


I'm not keen on the discs being too expensive but I think the vagueness in sales will cut both ways and negate the PS3 effect.

 

[oliverjg]

warner brothers seems determined to sell one product to everybody regardless of what hardware they choose.


this is what we want all the major studios to do. regardless of how you achieve a single format you are subsidising various companies through licensing of different technologies.


warner currently has to run two separate production lines and create 2 sets of box art, boxes, etc. which cost them extra money. 1 production line saves money.


by selling the same disk to a combined market they should be able to have larger production runs and cut costs further.


all of the money warner brings in goes into the same pool. so the stronger format is always holding up the weaker one regardless for a format neutral studio. if hd dvd is the stronger format, then you are paying now to support warner on bd.


if warner succeds with this then it would cost other studios less money to also go format neutral.


the danger to warner is that if they price their disks too high then people on both formats will buy from other studios. this can only work for warner if they keep the prices low.


all major studios should support both formats.

 

[Andregk]

God, I think neither hd-dvd or blue-ray gives a hoot about us. It is all about $$$$$ I bought a hd dvd player, but my instincts are telling me that it is a betamax. Why isn't there more support or movies coming out on HDDVD? I don't understand it. Now these combo players,and software, come on, that is just more money for them. If they just STUCK to HD DVD or BLUE RAY then none of this would be needed.

 

[hmurchison]

I agree.


All the studios should support both formats. I don't hear Verbatim complaining about having to sell DVD+R and DVD-R media. They just do it.


We're in the Digital Lifestyle phase. I probably wouldn't be able to avoid bringing a Blu-ray player into my home in the future because HD technology is going to be everywhere. Computer, cars, broadcast and more.


Content needs to find a home everywhere it is feasible. The content providers are the ones who will feel the pinch of spriraling prices the least after a while.

 

[ClearVision]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald Trent /forum/post/0


First let me say....I WILL NOT BUY ANY COMBO HD DVD. Warner's defection to Blu-ray will mean companies will not be able to tell which format the person supports even if HD DVD is why it was bought. This is especially critical if/when HD DVD enjoys a extreme edge in the install base of players. Companies will not be able to tell that Blu-ray is the unprofitable useless format on the disc. Therefore, propting up blu-ray when it should otherwise vanish, ala betamax. HD DVD owners would be unwittingly contibuting to an extended format war at greater expense than necessary.

FYI, just a couple of fact-checks...

* Warner joined the Blu-ray Disc camp more than a year ago, shortly after they first announced HD DVD.

* HD DVD does not enjoy an extreme or any edge in the installed base of players -- Blu-ray has a very wide advantage with PS3 and soon even with stand-alone players.

* Blu-ray is no less profitable than HD DVD.


Scott Hettrick

 

[ClearVision]



the danger to warner is that if they price their disks too high then people on both formats will buy from other studios. this can only work for warner if they keep the prices low.

FYI, Warner is not the only platform-agnostic studio. Paramount was first to go to both Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD more than a year ago.

Scott Hettrick

 

[ClearVision]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Andregk /forum/post/0


God, I think neither hd-dvd or blue-ray gives a hoot about us. It is all about $$$$$ I bought a hd dvd player, but my instincts are telling me that it is a betamax. Why isn't there more support or movies coming out on HDDVD? I don't understand it. Now these combo players,and software, come on, that is just more money for them. If they just STUCK to HD DVD or BLUE RAY then none of this would be needed.

You have to realize that these companies aren't in the charity business; they are in the business of making money, so of course their decisions are all about $$$$. But that's a good thing because that is what drives technical innovation that leads to the creation of such cool products that we want to buy, instead of leaving us stuck with Betamaxes or VCRs.

The reason there are not more movies coming out on HD DVD? Because there are only three studios supporting HD DVD, and two of those are also supporting Blu-ray Disc, the format all the other studios have chosen because it offers far more storage and bonus feature options and has far more support from CE companies.

FYI, studios don't make any money on any of the players being sold on either format, just the movies.


Scott Hettrick

 

[ClearVision]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison /forum/post/0


I agree.


All the studios should support both formats. I don't hear Verbatim complaining about having to sell DVD+R and DVD-R media. They just do it.


We're in the Digital Lifestyle phase. I probably wouldn't be able to avoid bringing a Blu-ray player into my home in the future because HD technology is going to be everywhere. Computer, cars, broadcast and more.


Content needs to find a home everywhere it is feasible. The content providers are the ones who will feel the pinch of spriraling prices the least after a while.

The entire industry from consumers to retailers has been screaming for studios to pick just one format. To release in both formats is to prolong the life of both formats. We are sending the studios a mixed message if we now tell them not to pick one, but to follow Warner and Paramount and pick both.

Scott Hettrick

 

[turansformer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Andregk /forum/post/0


God, I think neither hd-dvd or blue-ray gives a hoot about us. It is all about $$$$$ I bought a hd dvd player, but my instincts are telling me that it is a betamax. Why isn't there more support or movies coming out on HDDVD? I don't understand it. Now these combo players,and software, come on, that is just more money for them. If they just STUCK to HD DVD or BLUE RAY then none of this would be needed.

You have to look at this from a business standpoint. Warner is killing two birds with one stone here. First, they are improving efficiencies in the production of a dual format disc. Better efficiency = less overhead = less costs. The other improvement is in reducing customer confusion. Now, all a customer has to do is buy one movie and not worrying about if he/she bought the right movie for the right player. The worst mistake that could be made is putting the disc in on the wrong side.


As for you loss of faith in HD-DVD, I would by no means count the format down and out. There is a lot of propaganda spread around on here (yes, for both formats) and through websites covering CES and other events that put a spin on the information and skew it towards a particular format. My best recommendation on you is to read and reasearch as much as you can about the formats, and you will eventually begin to sift through the misinformation spread and see through the smoke and mirrors to make any decisions.

 

[HomerJay]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison /forum/post/0


I agree.


All the studios should support both formats. I don't hear Verbatim complaining about having to sell DVD+R and DVD-R media. They just do it.


We're in the Digital Lifestyle phase. I probably wouldn't be able to avoid bringing a Blu-ray player into my home in the future because HD technology is going to be everywhere. Computer, cars, broadcast and more.


Content needs to find a home everywhere it is feasible. The content providers are the ones who will feel the pinch of spriraling prices the least after a while.

The two SKU complaint from retailers is completely bogus. If they are running out of room for HD DVD and Blu-ray seperates, they should do some cleaning house in the DVD section: removal of ALL FULLSCREEN discs would yield a HUGE amount of room!! It's a sad situation that 10 years later the consumers still haven't been educated. God, I hope Blu-ray doesn't stick around like fullscreen...drop it and be done with it!...

The inability to separate the usage pattern is absolutely detrimental to determining a winner. This has got to be the worst idea I've ever heard with regards to the HD wars. At the begnning it would have seemed like a genuine attempt at cooperation. At this point, however, it will only serve to prolong an already unnecessary format war.


I remember thinking to myself when I opened my first Warner title alongside a Universal title..."WOW!! Warner learned this time out. Don't use different cases than the other studios...they match from right out the gate." Okay, not really a surprise since they are now using keep cases for SD DVD, too. I didn't realize I would only have to wait 12 months for them to throw a wrench in the mix...clear cases? (Assuming the prototype was accurate). Mention of that Blu-ray crap on my HD DVD disc and case cover? I don't want that crap mentioned anywhere! So not only are these going to be more expensive but to not have a checkered collection of clear cases, it's necessary to get red replacements...thanks Warner...

I think I'll pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearVision /forum/post/0


The entire industry from consumers to retailers has been screaming for studios to pick just one format. To release in both formats is to prolong the life of both formats. We are sending the studios a mixed message if we now tell them not to pick one, but to follow Warner and Paramount and pick both.

Scott Hettrick

This TotalHD flies right in the face of those screaming consumers and retailers. These discs will only serve to put the loser on prolonged life support.

 

[turansformer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerJay /forum/post/0


The two SKU complaint from retailers is completely bogus. If they are running out of room for HD DVD and Blu-ray seperates, they should do some cleaning house in the DVD section: removal of ALL FULLSCREEN discs would yield a HUGE amount of room!!

While I agree with you, the truth of the matter is that we're a niche group amongst a vast market of J6P consumers that have not bought a widescreen HDTV and want a DVD to fill the screen on their 27" television. Some people just want fullscreen, and as long as they do, the retailers are going to stock it.

 

[HomerJay]



Quote:
Originally Posted by turansformer /forum/post/0


While I agree with you, the truth of the matter is that we're a niche group amongst a vast market of J6P consumers that have not bought a widescreen HDTV and want a DVD to fill the screen on their 27" television. Some people just want fullscreen, and as long as they do, the retailers are going to stock it.

Put a rack up near the restrooms in back..."Where are your fullscreen movies?" "There's a rack near the restrooms."...

It would be nice if they would just make room for BOTH formats on their OWN discs and simply deal with it. It's a temporary situation where there are two formats (or I thought that was the goal?...let the loser go eventually).

 

[captainjy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Andregk /forum/post/0


God, I think neither hd-dvd or blue-ray gives a hoot about us. It is all about $$$$$ I bought a hd dvd player, but my instincts are telling me that it is a betamax. Why isn't there more support or movies coming out on HDDVD? I don't understand it. Now these combo players,and software, come on, that is just more money for them. If they just STUCK to HD DVD or BLUE RAY then none of this would be needed.

After reading about Universal, I felt that way, but in thinking about it more, I still believe that HD-DVD will win. It's all been discussed before, but given Sony's track record, the cost of Blu-Ray and seeing that more of the adult entertainment industry is adopting HD-DVD, and most importantly, Microsoft is behind HD-DVD, now more than ever I think HD-DVD will win.


The HD-DVD name is too practical to lose. Ultimately, it's about product recognition. Very, very few average consumers know what Blu-Ray is and very quickly associate HD-DVD. Whoever wins, it won't be determined for quite some time so enjoy it while you can.

 

[Reginald Trent]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerJay /forum/post/0


The inability to separate the usage pattern is absolutely detrimental to determining a winner. This has got to be the worst idea I've ever heard with regards to the HD wars. At the begnning it would have seemed like a genuine attempt at cooperation. At this point, however, it will only serve to prolong an already unnecessary format war.


This TotalHD flies right in the face of those screaming consumers and retailers. These discs will only serve to put the loser on prolonged life support.

This is at the heart of my complaint against Warner and it makes no difference if HD DVD is a niche market at this point or not. People seem not to want to address that.


Bottom line business schools thrive on statistics and the attainment of them. Now Warner wants to sell products that will not tell which format is driving disc sales.


They must have got their MBA from the same school as the president. Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HomerJay]

I wonder if Amir would be able to relay the message loud and strong to the right people that this is a HORRIBLE IDEA...

 

[DougPr]

I'm on the verge of giving up on any sort of resolution to this war. Which would mean I end up picking up a bluray player to go with my XA2 to have full studio support. All Combo discs and studios selling both formats would get played on the HD-DVD side (due to the superior player), while the Bluray would be reserved for Fox, Sony, Lionsgate and Buena Vista.

 

[Sean_O]

Total HD will likely never use the full capacity of the HD DVD 30 side because they will use the same encode as the BD 25 side.


If they do a BD 50 on one side, they would not use that to its full capacity because they would use the same encode as the HD DVD 30 side.


Are Tri-layer HD DVDs even possible with Total HD?


Warner, please pull your head from your arse and come back to support your own format.


If not, then at least drop this Total HD nonsense because it will be a nightmare that will turn off buyers on both sides.


(double post)

 

[Funcha]

Any of you planning to never buy a combo disk had better plan to rent everything very soon. Regardless of all the big talk and opposing advances on both sides, neither format is going anywhere. The sooner we can get TotalHD disks from ALL studios, the sooner we can get back to enjoying the movies we love in EITHER format. Some studios may have to do two different encodes depending on how much space they're playing with and codecs used, but they'll save money in the long run by going this route. This is going to end up just like DVD-R/DVD+R. This war needs to end in a way that can make EVERYONE happy and TotalHD is the best viable way to do it.

 

[spindoctor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Funcha /forum/post/0


The sooner we can get TotalHD disks from ALL studios, the sooner we can get back to enjoying the movies we love in EITHER format.

Absolutely!


BigBlu is the big dog in this fight, when HD-DVD ties, it wins. More to the point:

If TotalHD (or whatever) disks that play anywhere are available, are you going to buy the $1000 player (blu), or the $500 player(hd-dvd)?

More players in peoples homes is a win.


IMHO, Sony tipped it's hand when the reports started to surface re: no p0rn on Bloo.


If you're a studio (ANY studio, not just p0rn), do you want to lend your weight to a competing studio (Sony) that owns all the disk pressing equipment? (And has already sworn NOT to press content is objects to?)


HD-DVD has the price advantage. Blooray has a billion dollars in marketing. TotalHD removes any argument for spending 50-100% more on the player.


IMHO, of course