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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Seriously, HD isn't good enough? I mean I really do not want to fiddle around with some goofy assed glasses to watch TV when I get home form work. I wear safety glasses for 40-50 hours a week, and believe it is a huge relief to pull them off. Do we really need 3D TV? IMO hell no, there aren't even any good 3D movies out there. I can barely handle HD on my 120hz TV, because some programs/movies look funny, or the picture jerks a lot. I really don't want anything jumping out of my TV at me. I say we kill 3D TV now while we still can. I mean hell, not everything has gone HD yet...
 

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I feel the same way about HD, but some some reason it hasn't died yet. Give me good old SD anytime - cheap and dependable.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighxr /forum/post/18267907


Seriously, HD isn't good enough? I mean I really do not want to fiddle around with some goofy assed glasses to watch TV when I get home form work. I wear safety glasses for 40-50 hours a week, and believe it is a huge relief to pull them off. Do we really need 3D TV? IMO hell no, there aren't even any good 3D movies out there. I can barely handle HD on my 120hz TV, because some programs/movies look funny, or the picture jerks a lot. I really don't want anything jumping out of my TV at me. I say we kill 3D TV now while we still can. I mean hell, not everything has gone HD yet...

Seriously, for the first time we can watch good 3D at home. Even now, if you rent or buy a Blu-ray of a 3D movie, such as Final Destination or Up, they include the anaglyph glasses that give you marginal 3D and totally wrecked color. The new 3D TV will give you way better 3D and keep the color normal. So when you see the 3D movies in the theater, know that now you will also be able to see them at home the way they were meant to be seen. The quality at home might even be better than what you see at the theater. Each eye will get a discreet picture in full 1920X1080 resolution on Blu-ray. If you don't want to watch the movies in 3D, then go ahead and watch the 2D version(which is what one eye would see.) From the demos I've seen sports look great. For you to think you can "kill 3D TV now" is laughable. It's coming whether you like it or not. Perhaps you don't want to spend the money to upgrade---NO ONE IS GOING TO MAKE YOU. I don't have a problem with you not wanting it, but I do have a problem with you trying to keep the rest of us from having it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My biggest fear is it will be like the digital TV thing, you won't be able to have any TV at all in areas where old analog could reach. My dad's place is a good case for this, he has absolutely no TV at all since the digital transition. He has to get satellite, or internet.


Sorry, but I think it's stupid, and asinine, and there's no need for it. Like I said, I haven't seen or even heard of any good 3D movie titles, so why the f bother? And they will force it on me at some point, just like most of the good TV shows these days are only availible on SciFi, or Showtime, HBO. The networks spend their airtime to that damn reality ****e...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighxr /forum/post/18268595


My biggest fear is it will be like the digital TV thing, you won't be able to have any TV at all in areas where old analog could reach. My dad's place is a good case for this, he has absolutely no TV at all since the digital transition. He has to get satellite, or internet.


Sorry, but I think it's stupid, and asinine, and there's no need for it. Like I said, I haven't seen or even heard of any good 3D movie titles, so why the f bother? And they will force it on me at some point, just like most of the good TV shows these days are only availible on SciFi, or Showtime, HBO. The networks spend their airtime to that damn reality ****e...


I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I'm actually kinda interested in the whole 3D thing. I'm not 100 percent on the bandwagon, cause I haven't really seen how everything is going to look, but right now I'm pro-3D. Having said that, I will admit that the chances of 3D taking over everything is EXTREMELY slim. I just don't see it taking off anywhere near how the TV manufacturers think it will. Nothing for you to worry about.
 

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Seems a little selfish to want to deny 3D to those who want it. I think the OT's fear is that he'll be forced to "buy in" in order to keep up with the "Jones". It is simply everyone's choice to "upgrade" or not - yes, it is a pain since it pretty much destroys the resale value of our current systems, but that seems to happen annually anyway, just not to the kind of extreme we're going to see with 3D. If 3D causes eyestrain for me then I'll stick with 2D, but I certainly don't want to interfere with others enjoyment of it.
 

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Why? Mostly because the theater people have already put their industry on a path to it, so the TV people figure that people at home will want to see movies like they saw them in the theater. That's why.
 

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milehighxr,


If you don't want to watch 3D tv, you don't have to. You can continue to watch 2D forever if you so choose. Any of the new 3D HDTVs coming out will do a fine job of displaying 2D all day long. If some movie you really, really want to watch comes on a 3D BD only, guess what? You can still play it on your old BD player and watch it in 2D. You'll never need active shutter glasses or any of the other paraphenalia associated with 3D.


I choose to be an early adopter in the 3D arena; late this year or early next year, and I'm looking forward to it with great anticipation.
 

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Not that we're seeing a lot of them, now that there are dedicated 3-D threads here, but...


...to the "3-D Is Just A Flash (Avatar) In The Pan" crowd, here's another Flash ...
 

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If you like 3D in the theaters, or you have family members that do, the recreation of the full 3D effect that has only been available in theaters is finally reaching into homes in a way that has never before been possible.


While that holds no interest for some, there is more than a few who do enjoy 3D, and this product is for them.


Really, the opinion of a few, like the original poster, is not atypical, but if you haven't seen it, then commenting on it (kill it?) certainly isn't appropriate and there may very well be a genre which ends up truly appealling to you.


Heck, maybe the glasses will be more comfortable than your safety glasses.
 

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Black and white with mono sound was great, in its day, but then we moved on. SD color stereo, then PL surround, was good, but now we've moved on. HD in 2D with 5.1 or 7.1 sound can be very good, but now it's time to move on to 3D color HD and PL IIz 9.1 sound. That's progress.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighxr /forum/post/18267907


Seriously, HD isn't good enough? I mean I really do not want to fiddle around with some goofy assed glasses to watch TV when I get home form work. I wear safety glasses for 40-50 hours a week, and believe it is a huge relief to pull them off. Do we really need 3D TV? IMO hell no, there aren't even any good 3D movies out there. I can barely handle HD on my 120hz TV, because some programs/movies look funny, or the picture jerks a lot. I really don't want anything jumping out of my TV at me. I say we kill 3D TV now while we still can. I mean hell, not everything has gone HD yet...

WHY? Because the electronics manufacturers need a new revenue stream, that is why. They view their customers as nothing more than dollar signs that they can manipulate to their hearts content.


I posted the following on another thread but since it goes a long way in answering your question regarding 3D I thought I would pass it along:


First off; 3D is nothing but a FAD at this point, specifically designed to get warm bodies into theaters, which with the success of Avatar, and Alice in Wonderland, has taken place and to generate a new revenue stream for electronics manufacturers. Secondly and this is VERY important, 3D technology for home use is in it's infancy, I dare say embryonic phase at this point.


What is wrong with the 2D high definition equipment you already have? ..... NOTHING, and that is the problem. There is no reason for everyone to dump the exceptional 1080p, 1.3aHDMI high def equipment we just got through buying because they told us it was the gold standard for enjoying high-def. Now... all bets are off BECAUSE THEY NEED A NEW REVENUE STERAM! That is the answer to your question WHY


Why not just upgrade the high def equipment the manufactures just got through selling people world-wide? ... WHY NOT? The reason why not is simple = the electronics manufacturers refuse to do upgrade via firmware or to work with the great 2D equipment we already own because =


there is NO MONEY IN IT FOR T H E M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


They think we are all STUPID and nothing but walking dollar signs, that we are made of money and have nothing better to do than to throw away all of the brand new/nearly new high-def equipment that they just got through selling us all over the last few years so we can go out and buy it all over again so that we can make them richer than they already are. Come on, you know the Carney bark = "You gotta get rid of all of your existing high def equipment and buy into 3D because it is 'new and improved' and '3D ready'." We have heard this song and dance over and over again... think of all of the failed fad A/V formats they fooled people into buying in the past... the landfills are full of them.


At this point 3D is nothing but a fad and scam to sucker schlubs into parting with what little green they have left in their pockets before the world wide recession/depression kicks into high gear.... they need another score so that they can retire in style while Rome burns.


If 3D is the end all and be all they are screaming it is; then the solution to upgrade the equipment they just sold us via firmware update is reasonable and that was the promise they made to us = "buy this equipment, it is future proof because it is completely upgradeable via firmware updates." The only problem is they refuse to stand behind the bill of goods they sold us and to follow through with those upgrades, and now they all want to pull the plug on 3D firmware updates/improvements and want us to throw all of our new high def equipment away and buy it all over again because if we don't... well then, you and I are nothing but second class A/V Neanderthals who fail to recognize the end all and be all that is... 3D.


When all is said and done, this time around we know their song and dance routine, we have a choice... we can act like lemmings, throw away the millions upon millions of dollars worth of new high-def equipment we just bought (blow it out on AVS classifieds or Craigslist for pennies on the dollar) and all jump off the 3D cliff or we can take a stand for once with our hard earned cash and tell them by our actions: "We won't be fooled again; enough, is enough, if you want us to jump on the 3D bandwagon then upgrade us via firmware and create a 3D format that WORKS WITH THE EXCEPTIONAL EQUIPMENT YOU JUST SOLD US!" This time we are not going to blindly jump to their "new and improved 3D" tune by not buying into the 3D fad/hype.


If enough A/V enthusiasts hold their feet to the fire this time around by not throwing their money down the rat hole then every one will win = a 3D format that takes advantage of existing 1080p 1.3HDMI equipment will come into existence. Existing equipment will be upgraded to 3D to satisfy existing customers (for all of the nay sayers that claim "it can't be done" the answer is simple = it CAN be done if they have the will to do it! If we can put a man on the moon using a 64k computer then they can do this.) and new equipment will be 3D ready from the get go. Everyone is happy, existing customers win, new customers win, and the manufacturers still make boatloads of money.


The 3D sets/equipment that will be sold are technologically primitive at this point. The manufacturers will charge a very hefty premium for this new 3D equipment and will use the early adopter/3D suckers as their "beta testing" Guinea Pigs. Over TIME these folks will find a lot of the flaws and problems that exist with this infant 3D tech because it will not work as promised. They will complain as early adopters always do, the manufacturers will look at these complaints (along with those from the broadcasters who try to implement 3D for the masses) and make corrections.


This process will repeat itself for around 8 to 15 years = 3 to 5 generations of 3D technology upgrades until the manufacturers finally get 3D working properly/to the satisfaction of the majority of people using it. Then (IF, and it is a huge "IF") 3D technology using GLASSES even takes off, a 3D quality "standard" will finally be established, the masses will buy into the system, prices will eventually come down BIG TIME! If you "MUST HAVE 3D", THAT IS THE TIME TO BUY... AFTER THE SUCKERS/Beta testers have spent their money working out ALL of the very real "kinks" inherent in 3D using glasses: I have already seen manufacturers trying to hawk phony "super deluxe" 3D glasses for $300!


Given all of the above factors, you are looking at 8 to 15 years before anyone should even begin to think about possibly jumping on the 3D band wagon. Why such a long, indefinite, indefinable time frame? Because no one has any idea what kind of problems are going present themselves, how quickly or slowly 3D will even develop, be adopted or if the whole 3D for home use format will be dead on arrival (a very real possibility given the fact that we are in a world-wide economic recession possibly bordering on a depression and people do not have money to waste on "new and improved" 3D equipment when they have perfectly fine and working 2D 1080p/ 1.3 HDMI high def equipment that they recently spent a fortune purchasing.


Forget about all of the ooh, aah 3D "hype" coming from the manufacturers! A person would have to be out of their mind to buy a 3D TV or 3D front projector this early in the game, and make no mistake it is a GAME designed by the manufacturers to get the consumer to look with disdain on what these same folks had sold them on being the epitome/end all/be all in HD less than a year ago so that they will throw it all away to buy 3D.


At this stage of the game stay; away from 3D for home use like the plague!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


My advice: Relax and enjoy your existing 1080p/1.3a HDMI high-def equipment. Save your money, think LONG-TERM and enjoy your existing new/nearly brand new equipment (given the economy, you want it to last a good 5 to 8 years). Let the early adopter "suckers" spend THEIR money beta testing this 3D technology. Let THEM throw THEIR money down the toilet on a supposedly "new and improved," NO SINGLE STANDARD 3D = shutter glasses, non shutter glasses, polarized glasses, non polarized glasses, red and green glasses, non red and green glasses, and UNPROOVEN 1.4 HDMI format.


The upcoming 3D format wars (with millions of "early adopter" casualties left in it's wake with billions of dollars worth of now worthless technology they can't even sell on Craigslist when everything finally shakes out a decade from now) are going to make HD/Bluray fiasco look like a walk in the park.


Remember: SONY, ONKYO, Denon, Yamaha, etc... haven't even worked out all of the 1.3 HDMI "bugs" yet on gear they have already sold and they expect us to throw it ALL AWAY for an entirely new and unproven 1.4 HDMI format that they themselves will no longer support as soon as the "new and improved", equally untested 1.5 HDMI format comes along.


As for "3DTV"; just look at the existing poor "quality" of HD programming we are being fed by the likes of Comcast, DISH and Direct TV, etc. Many of the HD NFL play off games just broadcast were not sharp or crisp/very poor and appeared to be 720p at best. People are not going to spend billions of dollars on new 3DTV's while HD broadcasters continually feed them lousy HD signals.


3D TV broadcasts won't even be in high definition:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1216903


so what is the point?


Is 3D cool? Yes, from a technological standpoint, Avatar in 3D is a game changer for theaters. However, ONCE A STANDARD IS FINALLY AGREED UPON (after this next bloody 3D "format war" is finally over which could take another decade), it will cost tens of thousands of dollars (if not more) to replace nearly all of a families existing AV equipment in order to even remotely begin to bring the quality of that 3D theater experience to the average persons home theater and unless people have their heads in the sand, we are in the midst of one of the severest economic downturns since the Great Depression.


Multitudes here on AVS and elsewhere are prepared to wait 10 - 15 years for this whole 3D mess to finally shake out because we are tired of being used as beta testers for an industry that continues to treat us like we are nothing but walking dollar signs that can be manipulated into throwing away our gear every 2-3 years for their latest fad. And yes, at this point 3D is just a fad.


Someone feel free to call me in 10 to 15 years when GLASSLESS 3D is fully developed and fully comes into it's own and those nasty "bugs" have been worked out and it is available at a reasonable price. Until then, have fun all you "early adopter, beta testing, Guinea Pigs". But before you take the 3d plunge, I would advise you to remember the lessons of the HD/Bluray format war when many of you lost small and large fortunes after the powers that be decided that HD was worthless and they pulled their entire support for the format in behalf of Bluray, after they had sold you all that stuff, leaving all of you suckers (in their eyes) holding the bag.


I can envision 3 to 8 years from now, the same thing taking place regarding 3D; many AVS members sitting around, like they did with their HD equipment and software, with utter dismay on their faces and anger, realizing they have been pawned once again looking at all of their formerly new and improved, latest 3D technology equipment, and glasses that have suddenly been declared outdated and relegated to the dust bin by the electronics corporations who are ready to sell you on their latest fad.


They will have draws upon draws FULL of different kinds of 3D glasses: polarized, shutter, red, green, etc because there will not be just one way the electronics powers that be will decide upon for you to watch 3D Why? All the better to sell you stuff my dear. There will be low end 3D glasses for the masses and then there will be high end, scam videophile 3D glasses that will cost you a fortune this is already taking place with some 3D super glasses being marketed at $300! (Oh, joy, think MONSTER CABLES only for 3D glasses!). Most of this stuff purchased with your hard-earned money will end up in land fills or being blown out on Craigslist for pennies on the dollar because they will say: "Those things are useless and no longer needed because this is the new and improved way we are going to do 3D from now on."


As for me, and others here on AVS who have seen this script/scam/game before; no thanks, we will sit this 3D FAD out (like many of us wisely did during the HD/Bluray format mess.) and when the war is all over (contrary to popular opinion, there will be a 3D war which system shutter glasses/non shutter glasses/polarized/non polarized etc, because their are BILLIONS of dollars at stake.) and things finally shake out, then and only then will we bite the bullet and upgrade our A/V equipment to accommodate 3D.


After posting the above on another web site I received the following, confirming what I have said:

I've got 30 years behind me in the CE business, have written for a trade magazine for 7 years, and am what one would describe as an early adopter. I couldn't agree with you more. New tech is embraced by the marketplace when one of two things happen:


1) Consumers are forced into a change due to the retirement of an existing format, or:


2) There's a compelling case for the new format on its merits alone.


Neither is the case with 3DTV. It's cool to be sure, but no one but the manufacturers were clamoring for it. It's nothing but a profit recovery strategy at this point because virtually no one is making money on TV sets any more; making or selling them.


My guess is 3D will be most effective if used as a way for movie companies to keep people in the theatres, and I for one would stick to that. It would be a key differentiator between the theater and increasingly sophisticated home theater experience, a fact that will be increasingly more important as cinema ticket prices increase at the same time very big screen home theater hits true mass market price levels.



Just this past weekend the assessment above, along with my own; that 3D as nothing more than a passing fad designed to provide a new revenue stream for manufacturers, was confirmed by someone I know who has been in the home theater industry for many years. He along with the exclusive company he works for sell equipment and do installs for home theaters costing between 100 - 500 THOUSAND DOLLARS or more. They have been in business for years and have a very extensive nation-wide clientele. I asked him a simple question: Is 3D for home theater use a passing fad designed by the electronics manufacturers to simply generate new revenue, or is 3D going to be a must have' that people are going to clamor for and buy into? His answer was short and to the point: 3D for home use is nothing but a fad; don't waste your money. There is no interest in the market niche in which we serve for 3D at all, our clients aren't interested in 3D for home theater use. Besides the fact that our clients are not interested in 3D, in order to have effective 3D you have to have a DARK ROOM and the public have no interest in watching TV in the dark, they want to be able to watch TV in a regular non light controlled room'! Stay away from 3D.


This is a telling sign; in order for 3D to succeed, the people with money those who still have money to burn and are not being effected by the recession/depression we are in, have NO INTEREST in adopting 3D for home theater use (I am talking about people who spend $100 - $500 thousand dollars or more on home theater equipment), if they are not interested in 3D, (and every indication my friend has is that they are not, there is NO DEMAND for 3D from the clientele he serves), then this 3D fad is DOA because every new format needs people with money to buy into it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee /forum/post/18271516


Black and white with mono sound was great, in its day, but then we moved on. SD color stereo, then PL surround, was good, but now we've moved on. HD in 2D with 5.1 or 7.1 sound can be very good, but now it's time to move on to 3D color HD and PL IIz 9.1 sound. That's progress.

LOL - the purist in me looks down my nose at 7.1 and 9.1, or any other audio combo/format that isn't used in movie theaters. But I respect the fact that people want these and should have the ability to buy them if they so choose.


Just like those that want CIH FPTV setups. IF that's what you want. Buy it!


3D isn't going to be for everyone. Some can't even see it due to physical abberations or handicaps.


But for those that want it - here it comes!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmouse007 /forum/post/18271602


WHY? Because the electronics manufacturers need a new revenue stream, that is why. They view their customers as nothing more than dollar signs that they can manipulate to their hearts content.

I certainly agree with you about this. But manufacturers and others competing for customers' dollars is the way our economic system works. Maybe it's time to get used to it?
 

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Even today, well less than 1/2 the TVs in use in the US are HDTV. Even in this house, where our very first HDTV was in 2001, only two out of five of the TVs today are HDTV.


Anybody who thinks they can put the kibosh on 3D by just refusing to replace your existing HDTV with a HD 3D set is just giggle-worthy wrong. There is still more than enough market opportunity left to build up a critical mass of HD 3D TV by just the regular replacement cycle.


The only thing that could kill 3D is if people quit going to the movies and paying the $3 premium to see the movie in 3D instead of 2D. Avatar and Alice say --don't count on it. Toy Story 3 will be along in a little while to confirm it.


Avatar and Alice could only generate the numbers they've generated because *the 3D theaters were already there*. Think about what that means, because it means there was already a multi-year, very expensive upgrade cycle in place in the theaters for years before 3D popped onto the radar screen of some of the people upstream standing in front of the train yelling "Stop!".


The investment from the theater/movie production people is already huge. They've been confirmed in it by a few blockbusters, with more likely on the way. TV will be dragged along, and individuals who have no interest and refusing to upgrade their new 1080p set will have absolutely zero impact on the eventual outcome at the macro level.
 

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I am quite sure that every 3D-capable TV made in the future (and at some point they will ALL be 3D-capable) will have a button on the remote named "2D" which you can push and bingo! No need for glasses or 3D. They will need to have this as an option at minimum for people who lose or break the glasses, but it will work great for people who don't care to watch anything in 3D.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennem /forum/post/18275097


I am quite sure that every 3D-capable TV made in the future (and at some point they will ALL be 3D-capable) will have a button on the remote named "2D" which you can push and bingo! No need for glasses or 3D. They will need to have this as an option at minimum for people who lose or break the glasses, but it will work great for people who don't care to watch anything in 3D.

The Samsung UNxxC7000 remote has a 3D toggle button.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock /forum/post/18275519


The Samsung UNxxC7000 remote has a 3D toggle button.

....but it only lets you see the left eye 2D view and half of the forum members will insist that only the right eye view is the correct one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones /forum/post/18277616


....but it only lets you see the left eye 2D view and half of the forum members will insist that only the right eye view is the correct one.

All RIGHTY!
 

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Seeing you asked why, I'll answer that.


I'm a newb to this forum, and it's my first post.


The road that lead me here began with a comment I made to my wife as we walked out of Avatar when it first came out.


"Gee hon, I wonder how long it'll be before we look back at 2D colour the same way we think of B&W right now"


It just so happened that we are also right in the middle moving into our first house and it's time for a major upgrade in our A/V equipement.


Not long after making that comment I came across the news that 3D TVs were on their way, and I've spent the last couple of months researching it, trying to decide which way I would go.


I've decided that:

A- more and more movies are going to be coming out in 3D. As a matter of fact, I don't think it'll be that long before it's going to be the standard. The movie companies see this as a way to differentiate themselves from simply renting.

B- Television manufacturers are going to follow suit. For now most of the content will be BD. I think it will take quite a while before we're getting broadcast TV in 3D, but it will happen.

C- In 7-10 years (probably about the time I make my next big investment in a TV) 3D sets w/o shutter glasses are going to be hitting the market.

D- Based on all of the above, sometime in the next four months I'm going to be purchasing a 50+" 3D TV. Which one, has yet to be determined.
 
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