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Quote:
Originally posted by PaulM9999
I was thrilled to see the news about WNEP going full power, but I'm still only getting a 10% signal strength on their station. WVIA is a solid 100%, so I wonder if they're only full-power on a part-time basis, and I'm tuned in at the wrong time? (I tried at 10:45 PM on 9/12.)

I live in the Lehigh Valley area in Pennsylvania and experience the same situation.

WVIA is 100% while I cannot pick up WNEP at all!!!!
 

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We have the same situation at the Circuit City that I work at. The only way we are able to get WNEP's signal is to use a powered antenna. The unpowered will not pick it up, but will pick up WVIA's fine. Did anyone try a powered antenna?


Jeff
 

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Jeff,

Do you work at the Dickson City store? If so you should have no reception problem as you can see the tower from the parking lot. I know that at Sears they have no problem receiving the DTV signal from us.


- Stu -

Senior Engineer

WNEP-TV
 

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Stu,

Yes I do work at the Dickson City store. We use two Zeniths, one 4:3 and one 16:9, both of which have HD tuners built in. The 4:3 has a pair of rabbit ears on it. The 16:9 and a powered bow tie antenna on it. I compared the signal strengths on both sets using WVIA's signal. They both show about 66% signal strength. The WNEP signal shows about the same with the powered antenna, and 0% on the rabbit ears. I am assuming that the steel structure of the building is what is messing the signal up. If you have any suggestions that might help the reception, please let me know.


While we are on the subject of the signal, when will you be broadcasting it outside of prime time. Could you maybe start by expanding it to 5pm to midnight? I know that it takes quite a bit of money to have it transmitting so I'll suggest small steps first.


The last thing I wanted it mention is that the WNEP signal seems to have a noticeable amount of noise in picture when compared to the WVIA signal. It may be the TV and/or turner. I haven't had a chance to compare it on any other TV's or tuners. Maybe others could comment on what they think.


Jeff
 

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Jeff,

I was assuming that the store was using an external antenna. Definately need that for it to work properly. Also RF reflections can be as bad as a weak signal - something you're going to get a lot of in the building. I noticed that the in-store RF system needs work. I was there today looking at RPTV's and thought the signal was noisey on all of them.


To answer your video noise question, with HDTV it's either going to be noise free or no signal at all. If the signal is marginal you'll get pixelation. It is possible to see noise on upconverted analog. Do you notice the noise in the video during the 720p transmissions?


Unfortunately where I live I cannot get any TV, digital or analog. I installed that system but have not seen a single byte of the HDTV transmission during primetime. I have to rely on the viewers (via Mark our webmaster) to find out how it is performing.


And finally, we are definately expanding the hours. We will be full time by April 1st or earlier. We may start transmitting at 6pm within the next few weeks. I'll get back to you on that. If you need a test during the day I can turn it on for a few hours.


Glad you like the radar. I put that up last week just to test the encoders third channel. I'll leave it up.


- Stu -
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Williams
We have the same situation at the Circuit City that I work at. The only way we are able to get WNEP's signal is to use a powered antenna. The unpowered will not pick it up, but will pick up WVIA's fine. Did anyone try a powered antenna?


Jeff

I have a CM 4228 antenna with a CM 7777 preamp mounted on a rotor and pickup up nothing from WNEP.


Bob
 

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Hi Bob,

Do you know your lat/long? I'd like to plot your location on the map and look at the terrain. We have viewers in Reading and I know of one in King of Prussia.


- Stu -
 

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Stu,

If you mean external as in outside, no we don't. The antennas sit on top of the TV's. The TV's look bad because of the video distribution system. Very few TV's have their on satellite receiver. Most receivers are running at least a half dozen TV's.


Maybe a better way to put the noise I was seeing in the picture would be to say that it looked like it was compressed to much, leading to grainy picture. I noticed it on the 720p transmissions. The upconverts looked good. I am assuming that the more channels you add, the more compressed the 720p transmissions have to be to fit all the information into the specified bandwidth. Like I said last time, it might be the TV and tuner causing the problem.


I'm surprised that you can't receive even analog where you are. I'm only a few miles closer to the towers and I get a picture that is better than Adelphia's. I use an antenna in my attic that is run directly from it in to the TV via 75ohm coaxial cable. It looks like I have no problem with the digital channels either. I'll have to wait until the holidays to find out. That's when I'll have getting the new HDTV.


I'm glad to see the hours being expanded. I was wondering primarily because the hockey games start at about 7 and the signal doesn't go on until 8. I guess that you answered my question. Maybe you could turn the signal on during the day only on Saturday and Sunday. Monday through Friday during the day are not needed yet.


Thank you for leaving the radar up. I was in a dilemma about what to do about going to satellite and dropping cable. I would loose channel 63 and the live radar. That solved my problem.


The biggest question I have left doesn't pertain to WNEP. It has to do with the other local affiliates. Do you know when they will start broadcasting digitally. Noticed I didn't say in HDTV, since Mark mentioned that they may just digitize their analog signal and pass it on. That would be very disappointing given CBS's commitment to HDTV broadcasting. WYOU and WBRE are almost the same network I believe. Is it possible for them to use the same tower to save on costs and possibly putting that savings towards going to HD broadcasts? It's frustrating thinking that I would put all of this money into the TV and satellite, and not be able to watch any of the programming that CBS has to offer.


Thanks for your time and information,

Jeff
 

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Hi, Stu!


I haven't posted on this for a while because there has been nothing new to report.


FYI, still getting a 90-95% signal in Reading, PA with:


Dish Network Model 6000 receiver

Channel Master CM4248 Yagi, mounted ~ 30' above ground

Winegard AP4800 28db UHF amplifier


Are you sure you don't have a direct pipe to Reading?



Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by swilson
Hi Bob,

Do you know your lat/long? I'd like to plot your location on the map and look at the terrain. We have viewers in Reading and I know of one in King of Prussia.


- Stu -

Stu.


Coordinates for my address are as follows:


Lat: 40:42:29.797N or 40.708277


Lon: 75:20:0.949W or -75.333597


Thanks,


Bob
 

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Thanks Bob, I am on vacation this week. When I get back to work on Monday, assuming not too much is broken, I'll plot your position and overlay the antenna pattern and see what kind of signal you should be receiving.

Also, I setup a new email account, [email protected] , that viewers can send hdtv related comments to. Those messages go directly to my mail box and 2 others in the engineering department.


- Stu -
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by drbaldinger
Hi, Stu!


I haven't posted on this for a while because there has been nothing new to report.


FYI, still getting a 90-95% signal in Reading, PA with:


Dish Network Model 6000 receiver

Channel Master CM4248 Yagi, mounted ~ 30' above ground

Winegard AP4800 28db UHF amplifier


Are you sure you don't have a direct pipe to Reading?



Dave

Hi Dave,

I must admit I was surprised the first time I heard someone in Reading was receiving us. We've since had reports of others in your area picking us up.

How are the Philly stations received there?


- Stu -
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

If you mean external as in outside, no we don't. The antennas sit on top of the TV's. The TV's look bad because of the video distribution system. Very few TV's have their on satellite receiver. Most receivers are running at least a half dozen TV's.


Maybe a better way to put the noise I was seeing in the picture would be to say that it looked like it was compressed to much, leading to grainy picture. I noticed it on the 720p transmissions. The upconverts looked good. I am assuming that the more channels you add, the more compressed the 720p transmissions have to be to fit all the information into the specified bandwidth. Like I said last time, it might be the TV and tuner causing the problem.


I'm surprised that you can't receive even analog where you are. I'm only a few miles closer to the towers and I get a picture that is better than Adelphia's. I use an antenna in my attic that is run directly from it in to the TV via 75ohm coaxial cable. It looks like I have no problem with the digital channels either. I'll have to wait until the holidays to find out. That's when I'll have getting the new HDTV.


I'm glad to see the hours being expanded. I was wondering primarily because the hockey games start at about 7 and the signal doesn't go on until 8. I guess that you answered my question. Maybe you could turn the signal on during the day only on Saturday and Sunday. Monday through Friday during the day are not needed yet.


Thank you for leaving the radar up. I was in a dilemma about what to do about going to satellite and dropping cable. I would loose channel 63 and the live radar. That solved my problem.


The biggest question I have left doesn't pertain to WNEP. It has to do with the other local affiliates. Do you know when they will start broadcasting digitally. Noticed I didn't say in HDTV, since Mark mentioned that they may just digitize their analog signal and pass it on. That would be very disappointing given CBS's commitment to HDTV broadcasting. WYOU and WBRE are almost the same network I believe. Is it possible for them to use the same tower to save on costs and possibly putting that savings towards going to HD broadcasts? It's frustrating thinking that I would put all of this money into the TV and satellite, and not be able to watch any of the programming that CBS has to offer.


Thanks for your time and information,

Jeff

I'm really surprised that a store that is attempting to sell digital receivers doesn't have a decent antenna system (external). Oh well!


Let's try an experiment next week with the noise you see in the 720p video. On Tuesday I will remove the SD channels and use the entire bandwidth for the HD channel. Let me know by sending an email to [email protected] if it looks better or worse. If it is better I will tweak the encoder and see if I can clean it up a bit when encoding SD channels.


The hockey games....You are talking about the Penguins?? If so the DTV transmitter will definately be on! It's the only way to get a return feed to the Arena for the "talent" to monitor the commercial inserts. They will also be on Adelphia 63 in full screen mode.


And finally, as far as the other stations, I don't know what they are doing. As of last week I didn't notice any construction up there. Legally all they have to do is be on the air by November 1st and if they choose, run upconverted analog. If I hear something I'll let you know.


BTW: I installed Dolby equipment 2 weeks ago. Have you watched any ABC movies or sitcoms on 5.1? Curious how it sounds....


- Stu -
 

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Stu,

I am disappointed with Circuit City's use of local HDTV content. I am trying to get them to use more of it on more TV's. Slowly, I think I am winning.


If I am not working next Tuesday, I guess I will have to stop at work for a couple minutes and look at the picture quality. I hope it's the TV or tuner causing the noise. I love the idea of having 3 channels in one.


Yes I was talking about the Penguins games. Can't wait to see them broadcast.


I'll keep my fingers crossed about the other local affiliates. I have a feeling that they might not be as receptive to HDTV as you have been.


I haven't had a chance to hear any of the Dolby Digital on the channel yet. I have all the equipment for it, except the HDTV and tuner. Like I said, at Christmas time, I will be able to answer that one. At Circuit City, we don't have any surround sound systems hooked up to the HDTV tuner. I should push for that too.


Thanks,

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Thanks to Stu , Jeff, and Mark Sowers for your high level of communication on the evolution of WNEP-DT. Your participation in this forum and the frequent updates over the summer on your web page have been greatly appreciated.


I've e-mailed the station wondering why I get such 100% signal strength on WVIA-DT, and 0-10% on WNEP-DT. According to Mark, WVIA has a second "inductive output tube" which helps improve transmission. Until WNEP upgrades, I'm probably out of luck. This might explain to those in the Lehigh Valley why they can't get WNEP.


It's been a tough week for me to receive WPVI-DT, so I'm longing for the day when I can get my ABC fix from Scranton. In the meantime, I'll have to continue living with WNEP's analog signal, which comes in beautifully here in the hills of Northwestern Jersey.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Stu,

I am disappointed with Circuit City's use of local HDTV content. I am trying to get them to use more of it on more TV's. Slowly, I think I am winning.


If I am not working next Tuesday, I guess I will have to stop at work for a couple minutes and look at the picture quality. I hope it's the TV or tuner causing the noise. I love the idea of having 3 channels in one.


Yes I was talking about the Penguins games. Can't wait to see them broadcast.


I'll keep my fingers crossed about the other local affiliates. I have a feeling that they might not be as receptive to HDTV as you have been.


I haven't had a chance to hear any of the Dolby Digital on the channel yet. I have all the equipment for it, except the HDTV and tuner. Like I said, at Christmas time, I will be able to answer that one. At Circuit City, we don't have any surround sound systems hooked up to the HDTV tuner. I should push for that too.


Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff,

I assumed you had a HDTV tuner at home. What is a good day to run the test? I work 5am to about 3pm M-F. If you work day side I could easily turn the transmitter on at anytime. If you work evenings then I'll run it the entire night with the HD channel only.


If it is determined that the extra compression is causing the problem, I should be able clean it up.


- Stu -
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by PaulM9999
Thanks to Jeff and Mark Sowers for your high level of communication on the evolution of WNEP-DT. Your participation in this forum and the frequent updates over the summer on your web page have been greatly appreciated.


I've e-mailed the station wondering why I get such 100% signal strength on WVIA-DT, and 0-10% on WNEP-DT. According to Mark, WVIA has a second "inductive output tube" which helps improve transmission. Until WNEP upgrades, I'm probably out of luck. This might explain to those in the Lehigh Valley why they can't get WNEP.


It's been a tough week for me to receive WPVI-DT, so I'm longing for the day when I can get my ABC fix from Scranton. In the meantime, I'll have to continue living with WNEP's analog signal, which comes in beautifully here in the hills of Northwestern Jersey.

Paul,

WVIA is running twice the power we are and operating a completely different type antenna. The design pattern of our antenna is such that it should very closely resemble our analog signal in WNEP's market.


And in case you are wondering, the 100kw power level limit was assigned to us by the FCC. We are more than likely going to apply for a power increase and we can do that without adding a cabinet to the transmitter. Right now the transmitter outputs 7.5kw to make 100kw at the antenna. The current system can support 17.5kw. So running the transmitter at 15kw effectively doubles the power. So don't give up hope yet!!!


Like I said in a previous post, when I get back to work next week I'll look at the pattern from the antenna manufacturer and see if you are supposed to get a signal where you are.


- Stu -
 

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Paul,

Thank you for the compliment, if I am indeed the Jeff you are referring too. Either way, I believe that it is Mark and now Stu that deserve the thanking. They both have provided more information than I could have ever imagined.


Stu,

Monday or Thursday would be good. Monday may not be good for you though, since that is your first day back from your week off. You let me know. Also, the more I looked at the picture tonight, the more I think it had to do with the transfer of the material to HDTV. Tonight was a good night for comparing it since there were 3 separate HD programs back to back. It seemed better tonight than when I noticed it before. I think the problem may be my overly picky eyes. If you still would like to experiment, I'm up for it.


Thanks,

Jeff
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by swilson



Hi Dave,

I must admit I was surprised the first time I heard someone in Reading was receiving us. We've since had reports of others in your area picking us up.

How are the Philly stations received there?


- Stu -

Stu,


I would have been surprised, too, except that I receive WVIA-DT very well. What was surprising was receiving you so strongly when you were still on test power.


Philly stations...



KYW is pretty good. Solid 80-85% all of the time.

WPVI is sorta/kinda. 60-65%, some dropouts, inconsistent.

WCAU, WHYY, WTXF: Nothing, not a peep. Same for Harrisburg/Lancaster/Lebanon/York/Hershey.


Good to have ABC from you guys! Keep it up.


Thanks very much for joining us on the Forum. It's always good to have industry representatives here.


Need a First Phone with 30+ years experience?



Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Paul,

Thank you for the compliment, if I am indeed the Jeff you are referring too. Either way, I believe that it is Mark and now Stu that deserve the thanking. They both have provided more information than I could have ever imagined.


Stu,

Monday or Thursday would be good. Monday may not be good for you though, since that is your first day back from your week off. You let me know. Also, the more I looked at the picture tonight, the more I think it had to do with the transfer of the material to HDTV. Tonight was a good night for comparing it since there were 3 separate HD programs back to back. It seemed better tonight than when I noticed it before. I think the problem may be my overly picky eyes. If you still would like to experiment, I'm up for it.


Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff,

What time frame on Thursday?

- Stu -
 
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