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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After considerable reading here, I'm not sure I need anything more than something like an Onkyo TX-SR606. I have a PS3, Comcast high definition, and a 61" Samsung DLP set. Image quality and ease of setup are a priority, but of course need good sound and not be outdated by next month. I need to buy soon, and would value any thoughts.


Thanks.


- Phil
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM3 /forum/post/15444430


After considerable reading here, I'm not sure I need anything more than something like an Onkyo TX-SR606. I have a PS3, Comcast high definition, and a 61" Samsung DLP set. Image quality and ease of setup are a priority, but of course need good sound and not be outdated by next month. I need to buy soon, and would value any thoughts.


Thanks.


- Phil

You can't go wrong with that choice in that price range. (inexpensive)
 

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After many years of faithful service I retired my Yamaha DSP-3090 for the much less pricey 606 and have had no regrets.


The fact is that modern receivers, unlike those of not many years ago, are just a series of pre-designed and made black boxes. Thus we can have 7 channels of 90 watts RMS and all sorts of fancy decoders and audio/video manipulators for less than the cost of a 40 watt stereo amp from an earlier period.


The key thing to look for then is matching the receiver's features and capabilities to your own system.


To meet its price point the 606 makes some well chosen compromises that allow it to integrate well into many systems. There are, for instance, only a limited number of each type of input, but, since these are assignable most folks find the number adequate. And since the 606 is future oriented it does not skimp on the number of HDMI inputs (4) nor on having the latest lossless decoding for blu ray.


Set up carefully with well chosen and matched speakers (still the most important considerationt for good sound) the 606 sounds awesome.


My own system includes a Memorex Blu Ray players, A Toshiba HD-DVD, a Denon DVD, a Pioneer Elite HD71 monitor, 8 CSW Newton speakers and 2 1000 watt Carver subwoofers .


Since my monitor is pre-hdmi I am using toslink and coax for the audio inputs and component for the video.


I bought my 606 during a 'black friday' sale at Amazon for $319. I could not be more pleased.



-don
 

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Personally, I would go for a receiver that has MultEQ as a minimum...not 2EQ, as I believe the 606 has. From an audio perspective, I would go for the Onkyo 706 or Denon 1609, each company's least expensive MultEQ receiver.


Receivers are the home audio equivalent to powered headunits in cars, where the amplification is built into to the same box as the processing.


Being outdated will happen faster and faster as technology (hardware and software) and as competition increases. It's a good thing for consumers if software can be updated. But as hardware technology moves forward there's no real way to get future proofed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

The key thing to look for then is matching the receiver's features and capabilities to your own system.
Agreed, and it has been a challenge, since I struggle trying to learn the new technology. I know for instance the PS3 can output audio in a way which does not require some kind of decoding at the receiver. I suppose this means that having that decoding feature in the receiver is moot? I am also puzzled on upscaling or upconverting, since from what I can determine, the PS3, the receiver, and even my TV, can do this. If some other component can do this well, then selecting a receiver for this capability seems hardly worthwhile. Armed with more knowledge, I can make an intelligent choice, and obviously, I need to do more reading!

Quote:
Set up carefully with well chosen and matched speakers (still the most important consideration for good sound) the 606 sounds awesome.

This could be the next big spend. The speakers are from an Onkyo HTIB, and are a family called HTS-200 6.1 speaker system. Largish in size, they sound fine to me with the original Onkyo HT-R510 receiver, that came with them. But, this may be an upgrade.


One other thing. How do I Multi Quote, to parts of your message? Obviously, I did not get this right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by biomed_eng_2000 /forum/post/15447199


Personally, I would go for a receiver that has MultiQ as a minimum...not 2EQ, as I believe the 606 has. From an audio perspective, I would go for the Onkyo 706 or Denon 1609, each company's least expensive MultiQ receiver.

The Onkyo TX-SR606 and TX-SR706 have been at the top of my list, but was not sure the TX-SR706 brought anything to the table, for my use, that is of any value. Regarding sound, maybe I don't know what I am missing, but the old Onkyo HTIB HT-S760 6.1 setup I had from years ago sounded fine, but I am no audiophile. But if the 706 can deliver noticeable improvement over the 606, I will opt for it. To an untrained ear, for movies only, can the 706 deliver a measurable improvement?


- Phil
 

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you should review the "best sub-$400 receiver" thread, as much of this is discussed. with a simple setup (only 3-5 devices) and a PS3 as your blu ray player, even the 606 may be overkill. all you need is a receiver that does multichannel PCM audio over HDMI, and it certainly doesn't look like you need 4 HDMI inputs.


A Marantz 5002 refurb ($299 from accessories4less.com) or a Denon 1908 ($239 from ecost) may be all you need. The Denon gives up 2 HDMI inputs to the Onkyo, but has superior Audyssey MultEQ auto-setup.
 

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Just be fore warned you get what you pay in sound quality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig /forum/post/15448277


you should review the "best sub-$400 receiver" thread, as much of this is discussed. with a simple setup (only 3-5 devices) and a PS3 as your blu ray player, even the 606 may be overkill. all you need is a receiver that does multichannel PCM audio over HDMI, and it certainly doesn't look like you need 4 HDMI inputs.


A Marantz 5002 refurb ($299 from accessories4less.com) or a Denon 1908 ($239 from ecost) may be all you need. The Denon gives up 2 HDMI inputs to the Onkyo, but has superior Audyssey MultEQ auto-setup.

Thanks. Knowing my requirements puts me in a particular price range certainly helps, and will read the thread you referenced. I don't know what other devices I may want to connect using HDMI. There may be some thing out there I want to get that uses it, and would like to have the receiver be able to handle it. But, at this time, not sure what other devices are using HDMI that would be used in a home theater environment. - Phil
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjohn /forum/post/15448312


Just be fore warned you get what you pay in sound quality.

Understood. I know some have very discerning ears, with high standards. I don't think I am one of them. This receiver will be used for movies and TV only, in a 14' x 14' room. The question is, for a non-audiophile, is the sound quality difference between an Onkyo TX-SR606 and 707, when playing a movie, something that is plainly evident, or something less.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM3 /forum/post/15448400


Understood. I know some have very discerning ears, with high standards. I don't think I am one of them. This receiver will be used for movies and TV only, in a 14' x 14' room. The question is, for a non-audiophile, is the sound quality difference between an Onkyo TX-SR606 and 707, when playing a movie, something that is plainly evident, or something less.

My last receiver was 2 grand. My current one lists for $600 (which I picked up for 4 and change). Both use outboard amps via preamp outs to drive a 7.1 Magneplanar system using 3 series up front and MMGs for surrounds. Not exactly a mid fi system. Fact is, the newer one is better.


Better because the audio path is purer in the new, far cheaper one? No. Better because of more sophisticated room correction, and multichannel bass management via HDMI.


Getting "what you pay for" in the current crop of digital receivers is far from what it once was. If the SR606 offers you the features you want and is a good match to your speakers in your room, at the listening levels you will choose, you'll be hard pressed to notice a distinct improvement from units costing significantly more.


Today's middle offerings form the likes of Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, etc., will give you 80% of what's possible for 20% of the cost. Seeking that last 20% is what will cost you many more hundreds (or even thousands), and if you plan to spend that much more, the rest of your system (and your room) had better be up to it or much will just be money down the drain.


None of these are future proof so spend for the feature set you will be happy with for the foreseeable future.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.bradford /forum/post/15448637



Today's middle offerings form the likes of Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, etc., will give you 80% of what's possible for 20% of the cost. Seeking that last 20% is what will cost you many more hundreds (or even thousands), and if you plan to spend that much more, the rest of your system (and your room) had better be up to it or much will just be money down the drain.

This is true in most fields, be it automobiles, audio equipment or, for that matter, cookware. I'm a Ducati motorcycle enthusiast and my writings on that subject have a large following, but in truth, for the average Joe, a far less expensive Honda or Suzuki will do 'the job' just as well.


So too with audio/video gear. There are people with "golden ears" - and a far larger number who say they have 'em
- and they'll wax lyrical about this or that make or feature (just as I do about Ducatis). But in truth most of us can be satisfied with carefully chosen products that cost far less.


In AVRs a basic amp of adequate power and number of channels is key. Auto set-up modes like Audyssey are a pleasure but one can have a great sounding system without 'em. And buzz word lettering like THX certified can add more to the price than one's budget allows.


In the case of the Onkyo 606 vs. the 706 the 706 has several advantages, but when looking at street price the difference in cost grows greatly because the 606 is often highly discounted while the 706 typically is not. Suffice it to say that for the average home theater enthusiast on a budget the 606 more than does the job and if extra bucks are available that money would usually be more effectively spent by getting better speakers.


-don


PS - When I want to multiquote from a single original comment I copy the quote with it's opening and closing coding and then paste it for the number of quotes I am going to use. Then I edit each one to contain just the section I wish to comment on and add my comments in between.


There may be an easier way however. There is a button called "Multi quote" but I've never tried to use it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM3 /forum/post/15448400


Understood. I know some have very discerning ears, with high standards. I don't think I am one of them. This receiver will be used for movies and TV only, in a 14' x 14' room. The question is, for a non-audiophile, is the sound quality difference between an Onkyo TX-SR606 and 707, when playing a movie, something that is plainly evident, or something less.

This is turning out to be an excellent and informative thread. However, your question is rather difficult to answer, but yet an extremely typical one. Its like asking, "I know some have very discerning eyes, with high standards. I don't think I am one of them. The question is, for a non-videophile, is the video quality difference between a Panasonic 800u and 850u, when playing a movie, something that is plainly evident, or something less".


As always, YMMV. Depends who you ask. Also, the room obviously plays a factor in both video and audio. Unfortunately for you, a square room is the worst. The only way your room could be worse for acoustics is if the ceiling was also 14ft high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.bradford /forum/post/15448637


My last receiver was 2 grand. My current one lists for $600 (which I picked up for 4 and change). Both use outboard amps via preamp outs to drive a 7.1 Magneplanar system using 3 series up front and MMGs for surrounds. Not exactly a mid fi system. Fact is, the newer one is better.


Better because the audio path is purer in the new, far cheaper one? No. Better because of more sophisticated room correction, and multichannel bass management via HDMI.


Getting "what you pay for" in the current crop of digital receivers is far from what it once was. If the SR606 offers you the features you want and is a good match to your speakers in your room, at the listening levels you will choose, you'll be hard pressed to notice a distinct improvement from units costing significantly more.


Today's middle offerings form the likes of Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, etc., will give you 80% of what's possible for 20% of the cost. Seeking that last 20% is what will cost you many more hundreds (or even thousands), and if you plan to spend that much more, the rest of your system (and your room) had better be up to it or much will just be money down the drain.


None of these are future proof so spend for the feature set you will be happy with for the foreseeable future.

Good post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCeditor /forum/post/15448912


In AVRs a basic amp of adequate power and number of channels is key. Auto set-up modes like Audyssey are a pleasure but one can have a great sounding system without 'em. And buzz word lettering like THX certified can add more to the price than one's budget allows.

Its not an auto setup mode as much as it is EQ in the time domain; room correction with the application of hundreds of filters that does not just simply improve a single LP, but for a larger area as well. IMO, this is the most value laden feature available (above and beyond having the bare-bones prepro+amp) in a midlevel receiver, BAR NONE. Let's see, SVS will release a new BM system that features MultEQXT and its most likely going to cost more than the OP's receiver purchase. I looked briefly to add it to my 2ch system after being so impressed with its effect on my HT, but unfortunately the economies of scale don't really allow it in the 2ch world. If I want a stand alone Audyssey processor, that's $2,000.


IOW, I can choose xovers, distances, levels w/o the need for this level of RC. Its the correction of ringing tones, with high resolution that is something I'd have no clue how to do. It would take a tremendous learning curve, time, expenses to even come close, and there are those who HAVE, yet still find Audyssey to be superior to their own results.

Quote:
In the case of the Onkyo 606 vs. the 706 the 706 has several advantages, but when looking at street price the difference in cost grows greatly because the 606 is often highly discounted while the 706 typically is not. Suffice it to say that for the average home theater enthusiast on a budget the 606 more than does the job and if extra bucks are available that money would usually be more effectively spent by getting better speakers.


-don

However, I have to say you are right. When the budget is rather small for the entire kit 'n kaboodle, I typically recommend a used $50 SPDIF receiver from the classifieds. Outside of this newfangled room correction that I dig, and simply having adequate amplification, there are so other many ways to effectively improve SQ per dollar. Of course, the cheapest ways to do so are free: careful listener placement, speaker placement, sub placement...
 

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There is a HUGE difference between 2EQ in the 606 and MultEQ in the 706. I believe the street price for the Denon 1609 with MultEQ is LESS than the Onkyo 606 with 2EQ. You can see here at the bottom of the page 2EQ vs MultEQ, see the chart: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/multEQ_products.html


The processing in the 706 is 2x resolution for the satellites and 128x for the sub. While the 606 is only 1x for the satellites and NONE for the sub.


You will notice a measurable but more imporatantly an AUDIBLE improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM3 /forum/post/15448222


The Onkyo TX-SR606 and TX-SR706 have been at the top of my list, but was not sure the TX-SR706 brought anything to the table, for my use, that is of any value. Regarding sound, maybe I don't know what I am missing, but the old Onkyo HTIB HT-S760 6.1 setup I had from years ago sounded fine, but I am no audiophile. But if the 706 can deliver noticeable improvement over the 606, I will opt for it. To an untrained ear, for movies only, can the 706 deliver a measurable improvement?


- Phil
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by biomed_eng_2000 /forum/post/15450249


The processing in the 706 is 2x resolution for the satellites and 128x for the sub.

2x? 128x? Can you explain exactly what that means?


In my own experience as a long-time "audiophile" with considerable experience in the recording studio, the Audyssey system is a very effective approach to controlling sound. But most discerning listeners none-the-less find it desirable to 'tweak' the system with their own ears.


And I have to say that the talk about there not being one sweet spot but a wide range of them strikes me as little more than advertising copy. The most such a system can do in this regard is to make compromises to give better sound at all places instead of trying to approach perfection at one. Standing waves will still exist. Both high frequency beaming and reflections will still exist. Time differences created by unequal distances from speakers at seating positions off center will still exist.


That said having filtration available for the sub will,as you suggest, make placement much simpler. Few people are willing or able to move their subs for the best sound; fewer yet understand the effects of standing waves and the way they are augmented by room size and shape.


But again, to the point of this thread, many home theater enthusiasts - including discerning and experienced ones - find that their needs are well satisfied by today's mid-cost AVRs. My own "serious" music listening system is made up of relatively high-end (albeit, older) separates, but my home theater is being well served by that 'little' 606.



-don
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCeditor /forum/post/15448912


I'm a Ducati motorcycle enthusiast and my writings on that subject have a large following, but in truth, for the average Joe, a far less expensive Honda or Suzuki will do 'the job' just as well.

I know well what you say. I ride an Aprilia Tuono (my 2nd one), and while the Japanese bikes perform well (owned many), the Aprilia is special. That said, the Onkyo 606 may be all my relatively untrained ears and relatively low demands need. - Phil
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCeditor /forum/post/15451064


And I have to say that the talk about there not being one sweet spot but a wide range of them strikes me as little more than advertising copy. The most such a system can do in this regard is to make compromises to give better sound at all places instead of trying to approach perfection at one. Standing waves will still exist. Both high frequency beaming and reflections will still exist. Time differences created by unequal distances from speakers at seating positions off center will still exist.

I see your point, but the effects are still positive, and the fact is that it does help out with a large area. Its not the end all, be all, and cannot replace treating of first reflections, good listener positioning, speakers positioning, etc. Its a useful tool that can be used in combination with other things to really help out those who don't know how to design a recording studio.


By being able to tame any particular ringing tone, the effects are still positive for both the singular sweet spot, and the "larger sweet spot". To the best of my understanding.


A previous musician I worked with did try to reduce standing wave effects in his own studio, but I've never had such a studio, and wouldn't know how to begin. RC devices like Audyssey are a godsend IMO, for very affordable pricing, and I say that after significantly treating both my HT and stereo with hundreds of pounds of treatments, already having considered good speaker placement, as well as listener placement. The Audyssey STILL made a large and immediately detectable improvement after all the above, IMO.
 

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Harman Audio is selling the AVR 247 and 347 on ebay. They are refurbished so some come with a few scratches and nicks. They sell for between $200-300.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat /forum/post/15460712


...after significantly treating both my HT and stereo with hundreds of pounds of treatments, already having considered good speaker placement, as well as listener placement. The Audyssey STILL made a large and immediately detectable improvement after all the above, IMO.

I believe you. Years ago we'd try to do the same thing with equalizers but they never had enough channels or resolution nor, quite frankly, did we have the 'ears' to hear exactly which frequency was peaked or dipped. The Audyssey system does. That such sophisticated electronics can be available in a $400 receiver is nothing short of astounding!


But - and those with golden ears should cover them or at least stop reading - the 606's feature that did the most improve my system's sound for movie presentation was the Cinema Filter. Onkyo's engineers really got this right. And this amazed me because I had for years been using various generations of relatively high-end Yamaha components with similarly purposed filters none of which proved useful.


So, getting back to the theme of this thread, yes, with today's componants many users - including "serious" ones - can find happiness with a mid-priced AVR. I did. And in my case that AVR was the Onkyo TX-SR606.


-don
 
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