[R Harkness]

For us purists who love and respect original aspect ratios, and who have always been mortified by pan 'n scan and "full screen" (4:3) transfers...one heartening element of the creeping Blu Ray adoption is that (as far as I'm aware) all Blu Rays are coming out in the original AR.


Obviously that widescreen TVs are becoming the norm helps this issue.


Finally, it seems we have a film delivery system that is set to deliver the original AR for all consumers - scope movies stay scope - without being butchered to fit the shape of the consumer's TV!


Anyway, to me it's one more reason to cheer Blu Ray on!


Bye Bye and good riddance to "fool-screen" DVD....


Let us hope it's ghost doesn't rise in some form in the Blu Ray era.


(The closest I've seen in these terms is that many folks will use the "zoom" functions of their TV to fill the screen. I was at a neighbor's house and it's amazing just how BAD he'd made a Blu Ray look by doing this. But even though people still do this, it strikes me as somehow less fundamentally insidious than the studios themselves actually stooping to distort the product from the get-go).

 

[ToeNipples]

I love OAR content as much as the next avs-er but have you actually had a problem finding movies on dvd released (as in the dvd was released, not the movie) in the past 7 years? I can't think of a single film that is ONLY available in pan and scan on dvd from this century... can you?

 

[Deviation]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ToeNipples /forum/post/15410494


I love OAR content as much as the next avs-er but have you actually had a problem finding movies on dvd released (as in the dvd was released, not the movie) in the past 7 years? I can't think of a single film that is ONLY available in pan and scan on dvd from this century... can you?

There are still a few out there. Grumpy Old Men comes to mind.


What really sucks is that there are still quite a few releases that are widescreen but non-anamorphic. The first seasons of both House and Metalocalypse come to mind.

 

[Dex Robinson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ToeNipples /forum/post/15410494


I I can't think of a single film that is ONLY available in pan and scan on dvd from this century... can you?

The entire collection of GIDGET movies from Sony...in glorius 4:3.


I was infuriated...and I remain so.


Sony even had the gall to proclaim on the packaging that GIDGET was done from a "New High Definition Transfer".

 

[Mark-P]

As lucky as we have been so far with blu maintaining OAR, when it becomes more popular you will start seeing 2.35:1 cropped to 16X9 as well as pre-1953 movies cropped to 16X9 widescreen dimensions. The first casualty will be the Koch Vision blu-ray release of 1939s "Gulliver's Travels" coming in March - yes it has been confirmed to be widescreen!

 

[Mark-P]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ToeNipples /forum/post/15410494


I love OAR content as much as the next avs-er but have you actually had a problem finding movies on dvd released (as in the dvd was released, not the movie) in the past 7 years? I can't think of a single film that is ONLY available in pan and scan on dvd from this century... can you?

Allow me to enlighten you

Walt Disney home video released a whole slew of their catalog titles for the first time on DVD well within the last 7 years that were full-frame only:

To name a few...


Follow Me, Boys

The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band

That Darn Cat! (1965)

In Search of the Castaways

Son of Flubber

The Gnome-Mobile

 

[Neo_Reloaded]

Some foreign Blu-ray releases have been the "new" fullscreen (i.e., reformatted 16x9 instead of original 2.35:1). The UK release of Equilibrium by Momentum Pictures is one I accidentally purchased before I knew better...

 

[CRT Dude]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P /forum/post/15410901


As lucky as we have been so far with blu maintaining OAR, when it becomes more popular you will start seeing 2.35:1 cropped to 16X9 as well as pre-1953 movies cropped to 16X9 widescreen dimensions. The first casualty will be the Koch Vision blu-ray release of 1939s "Gulliver's Travels" coming in March - yes it has been confirmed to be widescreen!

I wouldn't mind if Super35 2.35 movies were opened up to 1.78 and have player add mattes for those that want OAR.

 

[kucharsk]

The only edition of The Trouble With Angels on DVD is glorious pan-and-scan from Columbia Home Video, where TCM has been running a letterboxed version since long before the DVD release; there's no excuse for that.

White Christmas is a slightly weird case on DVD; though VistaVision was designed to be displayed at a variety of aspect ratios, it's on DVD at 1.78:1 but the LaserDisc presented the full negative frame at 1.6:1.

 

[SirDrexl]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P /forum/post/15410901


As lucky as we have been so far with blu maintaining OAR, when it becomes more popular you will start seeing 2.35:1 cropped to 16X9 as well as pre-1953 movies cropped to 16X9 widescreen dimensions. The first casualty will be the Koch Vision blu-ray release of 1939s "Gulliver's Travels" coming in March - yes it has been confirmed to be widescreen!

It may be the first pre-1950s movie to be cropped, but it isn't the first casualty. The Roy Orbison: Black and White Night concert and the Dragon's Lair game were cropped to 16x9. Digital Leisure apparently realized their mistake and offered both versions on their subsequent release, Space Ace. I hear that the Thunderbirds TV show is being released overseas cropped as well. Seinfeld is being aired in HD on TBS cropped to 16x9, so there's a threat that its eventual release could be cropped as well (though I trust Sony to release it OAR).


There may be others I don't know about. The IMAX titles are technically cropped, but I've accepted the explanation about how IMAX doesn't really have an aspect ratio.


For some reason, there seems to be an acceptance of cropping to get rid of side bars, yet letterbox bars are fine. I don't know why that is.


There's also the case of South Park, which, if the HD DVD episode is any indication, will probably be 16x9 when the BD comes out. However, that's a gray area, because the creators of the show are recomposing it for 16x9, similar to how Pixar did for some of their titles on DVD. It isn't really pan and scan, but rather moving the subjects around in the computer to accommodate the wider frame. The purist in me would prefer OAR, but in that case I'd say it's acceptable.

 

[lgans316]

We may get to to see Full Screen editions once the BD production cost reaches DVD levels. It may still be possible for Studios to offer FS editions provided they stop including Digital Copy which I feel is a total waste of time, effort and money.

 

[Matt_Stevens]

The cropping will continue, but in different ways and eventually, say ten years from now, Wal-mart will begin the push for 2.35:1 films to be cropped to 1.78:1. It WILL happen.


You see, the fight will never end because the uneducated masses will always be the folks businesses will cater to.

 

[Pincho]

I think that Tv's should just scale the borders up/down electronically. I'd buy one of those.

 

[seggers]

A UK station called ITV released an old UK show called Thunderbirds, which was only ever filmed in 4:3, as a 16:9 BD release.


Those muppets cut off so much stuff, it wasn't even funny.


Needless to say, after reading some reviews, I avoided like the plauge and bought the SD DVD box set

for a much cheaper price.


I may well buy the BD set, if they ever acquire a brain and release it in its OAR.


Seggers

 

[homerx]

I think if blu-ray becomes mainstream enough to start replacing DVDs then their will be 1.78:1 Blu-rays along side the OAR ones. I just hope that if it does come to this I will alaways be able to get the OAR version. many times when buying older catalog DVDs I've found many big box stores such as wal*mart will only carry the full screen versions. this countinues to this day. I asked why. they said its based on the sales of each version what ever sells more that's what they carry down the line. this ended up being full screen in most cases.


I also hope we don't get both versions on the same disc. either via a fliper or in a worst case the choise at the begining were each version of the film will ocuppy 25gbs of the 50GBs.


I think it has to do with both uneducated and those who dislike the bars. I've talked to those aware of OAR vs. fullscreen and some have said they know their losing possible picture but they rather use their entire screen then stare at black bars. so I think it can be a prefrence to some...


I do hope they always mantain OAR with blu-ray..

 

[soul embrace]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P /forum/post/15410978


Allow me to enlighten you

Walt Disney home video released a whole slew of their catalog titles for the first time on DVD well within the last 7 years that were full-frame only:

To name a few...


Follow Me, Boys

The One and Only, Genuine, Original Family Band

That Darn Cat! (1965)

In Search of the Castaways

Son of Flubber

The Gnome-Mobile

you can add snow dogs to that list also, there still no widescreen version of it. i want the movie but i'm not going to buy the full screen version.

 

[Powerincarnate]

Well, like someone else mentioned. People will simply Zoom or Stretch the image. In fact, just yesterday, I go to my older sisters house. They just got a cheap 32 inch widescreen TV (with tons of backlight bleeding at the edges) and lo and behold, it was Stretched. They didn't have a ton of HD channels so the majority of Standard channels made it so that they felt compelled to fill it up. Afterall, they are trying to get as "Big" as possibly, 32 was all they could afford, so when a large percentage of the screen isn't even used, it is as if they are being cheated.


I think some of you people underestimate the feeling. At work, 3 weeks ago, when the Dark Knight came out. Afterwards we went to target. I got the blu ray version. I had to almost forcefully make the secretary get the Widescreen DVD version. But I wasn't there when another aide went in and bought it. Lo and Behold he got the full screen version. His reasoning is he hates the Widescreen version because you look too much of the screen. I remember when I was in high school, in the early days of DVD. I got a 15 inch Sony Trinitron monitor and had DVD player on my computer. I remember stretching the screen literally with the controls, to try to fill up a larger portion of that tiny 15 inch screen that was giving up a large percentage of it's real estate. Later, I gained the appreciation for the widescreen format, but don't underestimate other people.


Better, I think Most content now should be switched to the Widescreen format because we all know, most TVs will now be bought in that format. But, people will still have problem with 2.40:1 ratio. It is horrendous on a 4:3 TV, but it is still giving up a large chunk of space in a widescreen format for MOST people. I think it is time for a MORE universal aspect ratio be established. OR atleast Used more often in movies. I don't see what is wrong with 1.85:1 or 1.78:1. For example, in the Dark Knight, I much rather the IMAX picture of 1.78:1 as it was A. Much Clearer and cleaner, and B. it fully filled the screen, so it made the impact even more glorious and obvious. In fact, from my perspective, the digital imax format, should be used more of a defacto standard now, since it makes for a much better looking picture, and now with Blu-Ray, we can much better take advantage of the great 4K picture it provides via 1080P. Just a suggestion, but I'm fine with aspect rations personally, But don't be surprised when people will begin to moan when they get a widescreen TV, only to STILL be plagued with Large Black bars on the top and bottom of their TV when the film is displayed in a 2.40:1 or 2.35:1 ratio. I think a lot of the general public, thinks that getting a Widescreen TV will completely eliminate these issues.


P.S. even at Work, when our HD TV is on, I see people asking why the hell are there black bars on the left and right side of the picture with most channels. Go figure right???

 

[jasnmb]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P /forum/post/15410901


As lucky as we have been so far with blu maintaining OAR, when it becomes more popular you will start seeing 2.35:1 cropped to 16X9...

This will no doubt happen to cater to people like my dad...he recently got his first HDTV and was asking why he was still seeing black bars on his blu-rays. I think he was zooming in to get rid of the bars too.

he expected that he would never see black bars again now that he had a widescreen tv.


there needs to be better education on aspect ratios for the masses. Maybe a series of commercials or something. (hopefully they would be more clear than the Feb. 2009 digital tv transition ones I've seen; but that's for another thread)

 

[richiek]

I think that so far studios have been good at keeping 2.40:1 films in their OAR. However, I'm worried that if more 4:3 material comes out on BD, they'll cave in to the masses and crop for 16:9.

 

[jayrader]

I think if you are dumb enough to still get fullscreen DVDs you deserve to have the crap product you just bought.