Will I be blacked out for this game? CBS-HD

948 Views 22 Replies 7 Participants Last post by DrDon, Oct 20, 2004

RxMan1

Discussion Starter · Oct 17, 2004

I receive the Steelers v. Cowboys game from my local cable company. I know the game will be blacked out on NFL Sunday Ticket. The game is also on CBS-HD which I receive.. Will I get blacked out on this one too?

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1 - 20 of 23 Posts

DrDon

· #2 · Oct 17, 2004

You don't list where you live in your profile, so I'll have to assume you're in an O&O market in the east or central timezones. If the game on WCBS-DT is the same as the one carried by your local CBS affiliate, WCBS-DT will not be blacked out to you.

If you receive WCBS-DT via individual waiver, it will not be blacked out to you..

So, probably not.

Ken H

· #3 · Oct 17, 2004

We'll all know in 10 minutes.....

RxMan1

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 17, 2004

I am getting the game.

Not O&O. I am DNS.

DrDon

· #5 · Oct 17, 2004

RxMan..

With DNS, you shouldn't be blacked out of any of the football games IIRC.

Arkie

· #6 · Oct 17, 2004

I am DNS and never get blacked out on 80 or 81....

I do however get blacked out on the Sunday Ticket Channels is my so called local is carrying the game. This is not how things should be if you have DNS.

DrDon

· #7 · Oct 17, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Arkie
II do however get blacked out on the Sunday Ticket Channels is my so called local is carrying the game. This is not how things should be if you have DNS.

It's the NFL that makes that call. DNS Waivers have nothing to do with it.

AMorrison

· #8 · Oct 18, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by DrDon
If the game on WCBS-DT is the same as the one carried by your local CBS affiliate, WCBS-DT will not be blacked out to you.

In my case this certainly appears to be the case. For the last two weeks I've had WCBS-HD without blackout because they have the same game as KTVT. What I don't understand, therefore, is why they still black out the ST feeds for folks in the O&O markets. CBS obviously doesn't care whether I watch the NY commercials or the DFW commercials, so why not just leave the ST feed available too?

DrDon

· #9 · Oct 18, 2004

A Morrison

Because CBS has nothing to do with Sunday Ticket. Sunday Ticket is owned and controlled by the NFL. You can have all the waivers you like. As long as you're in a zip code that the NFL has determined to be in a certain station's reach, they'll black you out of that game on Sunday Ticket.

Also note that a station's reach has nothing to do with its coverage area. This is NOT an FCC issue. The NFL may decide that Station X's reach extends beyond its signal range since cable systems in outlying areas carry that station. They seem to feel that if you can get a local station BY SOME MEANS (OTA, DirecTV's local channels, a cable system or a translator) that you're within that station's "reach" and, therefore, the ST broadcast of the game that station is carrying MAY be unavailable to you via ST.

As I said, before, waivers mean nothing w/r/t Sunday Ticket since it neither falls under SHIVA rules nor is controlled by DirecTV.

AMorrison

· #10 · Oct 18, 2004

I understand exactly what waivers are. You are missing the real point. The NFL only requires the blackout because that's the deal they struck with the networks. I assume that they were able to extract more money from the networks in exchange for not allowing reception of a game via ST when it was being carried OTA locally. However, in this case, it's obvious that the network affiliates don't care since they're O&O. All I'm pointing out is that the NFL is protecting the O&O affiliate from revenue loss that the stations don't worry about when they make the choice themselves. And as usual it's the viewer that's inconvenienced.

DrDon

· #11 · Oct 18, 2004

I see what you're getting at. First, the NFL didn't get a better deal from the networks in return for local broadcaster protection. If anything, they just addressed an affiliate concern (real or imagined ).

Second, you're a special case. By and large, the vast majority of Sunday Ticket subscribers in your city aren't HD-equipped. KTVT still depends on those local breaks for revenue and promotion of its local programming, just as an affiliate in a non-O&O market does. While it doesn't seem like much, CBS would still rather you view commercials and promos its local stations derive revenue from than commercials the NFL sold and promos for DirecTV programming. And since most ST viewing is still SD, it doesn't make economic sense to lift the policy for the whole city just for a few HD viewers.

Now, in the case of an HD viewer, CBS would prefer you watch the local game via KTVT-DT. Their second choice would be to have you view the game on WCBS-DT since the company still derives revenue from ads sold in the local breaks (You may have noticed that the ads in the local breaks on WCBS-DT aren't always for NYC-only businesses).

It's still in CBS's best interest to have you view commercials IT gets revenue for than commercials the NFL or DirecTV get revenue for. And they'd rather you see promos for local programming on WCBS (you're still watching a company-owned station) than for promos for DirecTV programming (you would be watching something other than CBS).

And while it seems kind of petty to you and me, to the guys in the suits, it makes perfect sense. Having been a "suit," I can give you an example: You're an ad exec for KTVT and one of your clients spends 6 figures on football every season. One Sunday, that client drops into a bar with Sunday Ticket. He and about a hundred others are watching the game he purchased ad time on, yet he never sees his ad. What's he going to do? Call you and complain. Probably demand an adjustment. And 6% of that adjustment is coming right out of your pocket.

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cdharris

· #12 · Oct 18, 2004

I have all DNS locals and live in a "white" area. Even though I cannot get any stations OTA, I am still in the market areas (DMAs) for the nearest stations and am blacked out on ST for the games being shown on those local stations. However, I am not blacked out on the DNS feeds and have been able to watch the games on CBS HD even when that same game was on my "local" station and blacked out on ST.

The only blackouts I have ever had on the DNS channels was when the Yankees played on the NY CBS station, WCBS. Then, it was blacked out on the CBS HD channel (80) but not on the SD Channel (380). Apparently D* thought it was okay to let me watch it in SD but not HD. This happened each time the Yankees were on channel 80.

DrDon

· #13 · Oct 18, 2004

The Yankees games weren't in HD. From D's standpoint, it was easier to just black out the whole channel, knowing DNS viewers could still watch on 380.

AnthonyB

· #14 · Oct 18, 2004

The funniest thing I get is that I can watch a game until halftime on SNFLT and then halftime comes and they shut down ONLY the HD feed and not the 700's feed. makes perfect sense doesn't it?

DrDon

· #15 · Oct 18, 2004

They're still working out the bugs. Steelers were blocked for me on ST-HD from the beginning (Bengals ran long) but viewable in the 700s until the end of the first quarter (where the first local spot break is). I didn't miss a play and, to me, that's still more important than the resolution.

AMorrison

· #16 · Oct 19, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by DrDon
I can give you an example: You're an ad exec for KTVT and one of your clients spends 6 figures on football every season. One Sunday, that client drops into a bar with Sunday Ticket. He and about a hundred others are watching the game he purchased ad time on, yet he never sees his ad. What's he going to do? Call you and complain. Probably demand an adjustment. And 6% of that adjustment is coming right out of your pocket.

I don't intend to continue debating this but I'll finish with one last point. If I were the client in your example, and my ad wasn't seen because they weren't showing KTVT in the bar, I wouldn't care whether the feed was WCBS or a ST network feed. I'd still expect an adjustment. There really isn't any qualitative difference to anyone but a "suit".

DrDon

· #17 · Oct 19, 2004

AMorrison...

The odds of locating a sports bar tuned to WCBS-DT on the few Sundays the game is the same as KTVT-DT's is probably next to nil. Plus, any bar showing HD games is going to be rigged to catch them off-air anyway. What's the point of having HD in a sports bar if you can't show MNF? And if you're showing HD, you can't depend on WCBS-DT for the same game that's being carried locally every week. In other words, that's a call you'll never get. (Heck, I've yet to find a sports bar that shows ANY ST in HD. They have one round dish daisy-chained to 11 receivers. Can't do that with a triple-LNB)

Oh, and don't worry about carrying on the discussion. Maybe seeing it from all sides helps some understand "suit think." I've been on the suit side of things way more than any person SHOULD be.

AMorrison

· #18 · Oct 19, 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by DrDon
What's he going to do? Call you and complain. Probably demand an adjustment. And 6% of that adjustment is coming right out of your pocket.

Quote:

Originally posted by DrDon
In other words, that's a call you'll never get. (Heck, I've yet to find a sports bar that shows ANY ST in HD. They have one round dish daisy-chained to 11 receivers. Can't do that with a triple-LNB)

Quote:

Originally posted by DrDon
Maybe seeing it from all sides helps some understand "suit think." I've been on the suit side of things way more than any person SHOULD be.

DrDon

· #19 · Oct 19, 2004

Yeah, and? If you're trying to say I'm contradicting myself, then you didn't read very carefully.

If you're trying to say that all those years around Viacom suits has me sounding like one, then I'm afraid I'm guilty as charged.

AMorrison

· #20 · Oct 19, 2004

I read it very carefully. All I needed to show to make my point was that it could happen, however remote the possibility. The only way to conclude for certain that the call wouldn't occur is for there to be absolutely no possibility of its occurrence. This is clearly not the case. As soon as you allow any legitimate reception of duplicative out of market broadcasts the door is open. And once the door is open I see no reason why we shouldn't ask why it can't be opened a little further.

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