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Discussion Starter #1
Well, after rereading James Johnston's PPT - http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/ppt/room_correction.ppt


I kinda owe him an apology. There is some beef in there, I just accidentally skipped too far ahead and passed some of it (I was in the middle of plastering walls when I was trying to scan it for details).
For those interested in looking at it, if you understand the basics of psychoacoustics, early reflections, etc, just skip ahead about 35 pages or else you'll get frustrated like I did. For JJ, I would simply recommend shortening that whole intro to something like "Since we know that......." and move right onto the meat and spend more time there.


I can only assume that Microsoft is considering delivering a room correction system to the masses via consumer electronics a la Audyssey, but don't know if this is a real working system, a software prototype or completely conceptual. But one of Audyssey's issues is that it has a hard time in any kind of noisy environment even doing the most basic things such as phase identification (and that always worries me). So I'm interested in what other people think of Microsoft's approach.


Other aspects I like has to do with how it treats treble much differently than lower frequencies, that it generates separate correction curves for different parts of the spectrum, that they appear to get the idea that you may not want to correct every speaker in the system, that it has a narrow band measurement for speaker setup.


A few questions/ideas I have are -


Does it make sense to correlate some data from matched pairs of speakers as they would be essentially identical except for the room?


Does it make sense to, alternately to going for a theoretical FR, allow the system to match center/surrounds to the main's FR.


Does it make sense to have a 'dial back' method to scale down the correction to, say, 70% if your ears say it goes too far in the right direction?


Does it make sense to tie the threshold for reflections somewhat directly to the frequency being measured, so that the correction window tapers off slowly into the midrange (or perhaps it does this)?


And, of course, how does the system deal with a speaker that is less than the direct/reflected threshold from wall?


And shouldn't there be a user selectable switch or threshold adjustment to tell the system if the speaker is in the gray zone or an inwall speaker?
 

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Quote:
For JJ, I would simply recommend shortening that whole intro to something like "Since we know that......." and move right onto the meat and spend more time there.

Presumably JJ and his co-author tailored the content of the talk to a particular target audience. That you in particular may not need the intro material suggests that you don't fit the prototypical audience member. When I give academic talks I would love to sweep away the intro material, too, but I do not have that luxury.
 

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The system is out already --- it's in Vista, which is admittedly not exactly turn-key consumer electronics.


--Andre
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So that's the reason that a low end copy of Vista costs 200 F'ing dollars. Good to know that $29 computer speakers won't suffer so much ill effect from bad sounding rooms
Maybe they should actually focus some serious research into how to make reasonably priced software (as I type this from the superior Apple product........)


Oh well, so much for a potentially interesting thread!
 

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Who's limiting PC's to $29 stereo computer speakers? Certainly nobody on this forum , or this thread in particular. And heck, you're the one posted this on a high-end forum, but I'll bet that room correction capability will come in handy on this high-end HTPC or oodles of cheaper DIY jobs.
Quote:
Oh well, so much for a potentially interesting thread!

Now who's fault is that?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
if you limit the correction to the PC, then you're limiting your source to computer and would largely obviate the use of other correction systems on board the audio gear. Of course, maybe they'll offer this up to others like HDCD, but it just seems weird to me to put advanced room correction into a computer rather than audio gear.


Keep in mind that the audio business just makes me a pessimist for some reason.
 

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My high end gaming PC is hooked into my HT speaker system. No $29 dollar speakers here. Of course, I won't be running Vista in my HT until service pack 2 most likely. It is still way too unstable, plus the drivers don't work so well for audio and video still. The experimetal setup I ran had lots of audio stuttering issues, despite driver updates. I'm not really interested in running all of my source material through the PC either, but I would certainly turn on the room correction for computer gaming and Adobe Audition editing.



Sorry for any typos, I'm using the iPhone and I'm too lazy to correct everything...
 

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That Alienware link looks like a promising HT server. When those start getting really good and cheap, plus have additional TBs of storage space, I may be interested in buying one. Unfortunately, it can't replace my gaming PC, so perhaps I'll just build my next gaming PC with a HT server in mind, which shouldn't be too far down the road, since these things are obsolete ten minutes after you build them.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, here's a more exciting development anyway -

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327205,00.html


Gotta love railguns!


Only downside?


"Mr Scott, get the railguns back on line!"


"I canna capn, we've lost the main power!'


"How long?!?"


"I'm workin' as fast as I can but it'll take me 10 minutes"


"You've got 5!!"
 

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I'm glad MS is interested in this stuff enough to hire really good people to implement room correction, but it also struck me as odd that a computer should be doing room correction. HTPCs are more a source component than some kind of switching device like a receiver or prepro, so not all devices in a system can take advantage of the room correction.


For silent HTPCs, I like this system for turn-key:

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/...iet_core2.html


But for the next one I'll build, I'd copy this one:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums...ic.php?t=41300


My current DIY HTPC is pretty quiet, but it doesn't do much computing as it's just a 4-channel PVR, and the MPEG encoding is done in hardware, so most of its cooling is done by 1 big case fan running slowly.


--Andre
 

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i think it is pretty cool. since most of what i would want to watch/listen to is on a pc... why not have it do its thing then go to a 5/7 channel amp?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall /forum/post/12995197


if you limit the correction to the PC, then you're limiting your source to computer and would largely obviate the use of other correction systems on board the audio gear. Of course, maybe they'll offer this up to others like HDCD, but it just seems weird to me to put advanced room correction into a computer rather than audio gear.

That may just be the Microsoft's game plan. The htpc taking over all source and prepro functions completely. htpc -> amps -> multichannel surround system (and htpc -> video display).


We've already seen input cards and external source switching (limited to 480i due to pci bandwidth) for the pc. High quality sound cards are already here. And there's Cablecard, internal hardware deinterlacing and software based deinterlacing. Growing processor speeds, multicore cpus, improved bandwidth due to pci-e, HD DVD and Bluray drives, and dropping hard drive prices coupled with increasing capacity all point to a future where the htpc might very well be an "almost in one" box. Think of Microsoft's history, of being successful integrating features into their OS, through innovation and acquistions. Could the future of audio/video be similar?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
"Honey, we've got a blue screen of death on the projector, could you restart the computer again?"


Seriously though, it just seems like a waste of time and energy to develop room correction for a computer. People are increasingly going to laptops, they want computers for work/research, and actual dedicated machines for audio/video. Look at Sonos. In theory, no one needs that, you can do most of what it does with a PC, but it's a better appliance that happens to use computer technology, but isn't a computer and has a much better interface that people *enjoy*. There's nothing about HTPCs I find enjoyable to use.


Besides, computers couldn't possibly be more low-fi, from input to output. Unless you could keep the signal in the digital domain, I'm not seeing it for high-end use.
 

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here is the thing, most (J6P) people want what is easy. that is a DVR, BD/HD DVD, and then extras. so being able to access movies on your PC, music on your PC is all gravy. If the MCE (or whatever) can do all this, it is extremely powerful to people.


WHile i will be buying my wife a laptop in the near future. i will be buying a PC for the living room.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Computers aren't even close to being as easy as separate gear. There will be no takeover by HTPCs any time in the next several decades. it's just kind of a cool thing. Apple is growing precisely because they understand that, while computers have lots of power, you need an appliance to make it easy and fun to use.


Heck, even Microsoft gets the appliance thing with X-Box.
 

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For the computer oriented it will be nice , but I have to agree most people aren't computer literate enough to want to go through any of the tedious setup or troubleshooting issues involved in setting up a HTPC. That Alienware dedicated machine looks promising though. The people I know in my area only know how to use computersn for simple things, so almost complete automation of tasks is a must if you want large market infiltration.
 

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How vista works today has no bearing on how things like my ATT UVERSE box integrate it internally.


And there are plenty of folks out there working to mak ethe PC a solid part of a living room. And personally i am all for it. does MCE have a long way to go??? YES. will microsoft ever come up with a UI that will be as easy to use as my old MOXI box??? NO. will somebody come up with a good skin app that will allow us to customize MCE or just select a great UI??? YES, of course.


Having this sort of functionality inside vista is a great idea. within ten years, the PC in some fashion WILL BE the centerpiece of most home entertainment. please note i said PC and not MCE. Sure there will be plenty of reasons to have a different DAC, or processor for many folks, but for most, it will be far more than they ever need. and the placement of XBOXes is merely the seeding of the network.
 

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Discussion Starter #19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman /forum/post/13000750


within ten years, the PC in some fashion WILL BE the centerpiece of most home entertainment. please note i said PC and not MCE.

"the centerpiece"? I accept your bet!


Good to know that today's technology will be useful in 10 years or so
 

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It also depends on how you define PC. Is it a PC as we know it today, or a PC hidden in something else, like the Apple TV? I really doubt the former becoming popular, but the latter is definitely very possible.


--Andre
 
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