[jszei]

It took them 3 days but see my email conversation with WinDVD support below. In addition I would like to add that I have had a great experience playing SD .vob's from my HTPC. The color has been very good out of the box and video motion smooth without any jitter. I comparison tested it with TMT 3, PowerDVD 9 and ffdshow on some DVDs I have had the most compatibility problems with. Here's the email...


Subject

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WinDVD 9 Plus Blu ray bitstream



Discussion Thread

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Response (Robby) - 07/28/2009 02:34 PM

Dear Mr Zei,


Thank you very much for your e-mail.


WinDVD directly supports Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TruHD, DTS, or DTS-HD so audio signals are directly sent to the audio device "as is" or in your term, bitstreamed.


I'd also like to note that PCM is also directly supported in WinDVD 9.


Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further questions.


Kind regards,

Robby

Corel Customer Support


Customer (John Zei) - 07/25/2009 08:12 AM

Can you please tell me if WinDVD 9 Plus Blu ray will bitstream a Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio signal or if it is only capable of processing those formats and passing them as PCM?


Thanks,

John

 

[Tulli]

You should´ve asked on which sound card (s). HD audio bitstreaming is right now a player/sound card combo PAP solution, i.e. TMT3/Asus HDAV1.3 or PDVD/Auzentech Home Theater HD. WinDVD9 Plus BD certainly does not bitstream on my HDAV1.3.

 

[m0tion]

John:


The problem I think is not that the software does not support PAP (protected audio path), but that the current video graphics chipsets don't support it because they are not completely HDMI 1.3a compliant. So, even though WinDVD will bitstream DTS-HD, your graphics card won't. Again, this is just my understanding.

 

[Tulli]



Quote:
Originally Posted by m0tion /forum/post/16901745


John:


The problem I think is not that the software does not support PAP (protected audio path), but that the current video graphics chipsets don't support it because they are not completely HDMI 1.3a compliant. So, even though WinDVD will bitstream DTS-HD, your graphics card won't. Again, this is just my understanding.

Nope, PAP is required for HD audio bitstreaming, and it´s a software/HW proprietary enforced solution right now.


NO HD audio bitstreaming with WinDVD 9 Plus BD whatsoever.

 

[jszei]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli /forum/post/16901799


Nope, PAP is required for HD audio bitstreaming, and it´s a software/HW proprietary enforced solution right now.


NO HD audio bitstreaming with WinDVD 9 Plus BD whatsoever.

I understand that the hardware has to be compatible as well, but if you had the chipset/hardware which was able to pass the audio bitstreamed wouldn't WinDVD be able to do that? If not then why would they claim to in their reply to my inquiry?


Edit: I would like to reply to their response. I will specifically ask if WinDVD downsamples the audio stream before passing it. Does anyone have specifics I should ask?


I did a little research on PAP in the mean time and found a great article.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3411&p=2


Thanks

 

[genro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jszei /forum/post/16902302


I understand that the hardware has to be compatible as well, but if you had the chipset/hardware which was able to pass the audio bitstreamed wouldn't WinDVD be able to do that? If not then why would they claim to in their reply to my inquiry?

Because Customer Service/Marketing is clueless

 

[Tulli]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jszei /forum/post/16902302


I understand that the hardware has to be compatible as well, but if you had the chipset/hardware which was able to pass the audio bitstreamed wouldn't WinDVD be able to do that? If not then why would they claim to in their reply to my inquiry?


Edit: I would like to reply to their response. I will specifically ask if WinDVD downsamples the audio stream before passing it. Does anyone have specifics I should ask?

Thanks

It's not a matter of compatibility but of Corel developing a specifc WinDVD solution capable of bitstreaming on specific HW, which they haven's so far AFAIK.


As for downsampling, only TMT on the ASUS HDAV1.3 does not downsample. Even PDVD9 is said to downsample for analogue on the upcoming Auzentech HD card.

 

[jszei]

I made another inquiry to WinDVD support. We know one thing for sure from this and that is WinDVD does not downsample. As we are limited by the PAP and hardware we can only wait until manufacturers get on the boat in that regard. Make what you will of the response.



Customer (John Zei) - 07/29/2009 03:14 AM

Thank you Robby. Can you tell me which soundcards and/or chipsets WinDVD 9 Plus Blu ray will bitstream audio with?


Also, can you tell me if WinDVD 9 Plus Blu ray downsamples the audio before passing it?



Subject

---------------------------------------------------------------

WinDVD 9 Plus Blu ray bitstream



Discussion Thread

---------------------------------------------------------------

Response (Robby) - 07/31/2009 09:53 AM

Dear Mr Zei,


Thank you very much for your e-mail.


Unfortunately we do not have a list of sound cards, however, WinDVD 9's Dolby audio technology should work, regardless of the brand or chipset as long as the hardware supports it.


As with the audio sampling, WinDVD does not down-sample the audio. If you have 96KHz/24 bit high-end audio output and your hardware supports it, then WnDVD should be able output the audio as 96KHz/24 bit.


During the installation, WinDVD checks if 96K/24 bit decoding is supported by the system sound card. If so, Enable 96KHz/24 bit decoding is automatically selected under Advanced Audio Control in the Audio/Video Setup tab of the Setup dialog box.


To set this manually, select or clear the checkbox. If unchecked, content produced in this format is converted and played back in the 48 KHz/16 bit sampling rate.


In addition, with any audio effect enabled, the 96KHz/24-bit playback will be switched to 48KHz/16-bit playback.


Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further questions.

 

[vladd]

You are wasting your time asking him questions. He has apparently been misinformed on the product. If you want, you can ask him how to set up "HDMI Passthrough" for the Xonar HDAV 1.3 which supports bitstreaming. He won't be able to tell you because it cannot be done with WinDVD.

 

[bjmarchini]

This may be a dumb question.... but what device exactly are you using and what OS? From what I have read it does, but you need the right combination.


One of the big upgrades of WinDVD 9 was the ability to bitstream the higher codecs.

 

[vladd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmarchini /forum/post/16918133


This may be a dumb question.... but what device exactly are you using and what OS? From what I have read it does, but you need the right combination.


One of the big upgrades of WinDVD 9 was the ability to bitstream the higher codecs.

Where did you read that? The only hardware that is known to bitstream is the Xonar HDAV. The 4xxx's can't and the Auzentech is non existent as of this posting.

 

[jszei]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd /forum/post/16918175


Where did you read that? The only hardware that is known to bitstream is the Xonar HDAV. The 4xxx's can't and the Auzentech is non existent as of this posting.

Vladd and Tulli have you both used the purchased version of WinDVD9 Plus Blu ray? The trial version does not support Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD playback. If you haven't used the full version then you would have no way of knowing if it will work. How do you know it will not bitstream with the Xonar HDAV?

 

[hirent]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jszei /forum/post/16919789


Vladd and Tulli have you both used the purchased version of WinDVD9 Plus Blu ray? The trial version does not support Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD playback. If you haven't used the full version then you would have no way of knowing if it will work. How do you know it will not bitstream with the Xonar HDAV?

Simply put, if they had it, they would be touting it all over the place.

Like they mention 96KHz/24bit playback and uncompressed (I guess they mean non-downsampled) DTS-HD/Dolby TrueHD.

 

[jszei]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hirent /forum/post/16919843


Simply put, if they had it, they would be touting it all over the place.

Like they mention 96KHz/24bit playback and uncompressed (I guess they mean non-downsampled) DTS-HD/Dolby TrueHD.

You are right in that TMT 3 states it plainly on their site and WinDVD does not, but I would like to get some proof from someone who's tried the paid version.

 

[vladd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jszei /forum/post/16919789


Vladd and Tulli have you both used the purchased version of WinDVD9 Plus Blu ray? The trial version does not support Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD playback. If you haven't used the full version then you would have no way of knowing if it will work. How do you know it will not bitstream with the Xonar HDAV?

Yes, I do have a purchased copy of WinDVD 9 and a Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe. I also have an ATI 4650. TMT 2 Asus edition and TMT 3 retail are the only softwares that will bitstream and they will only do it with the Xonar HDAV 1.3, Xonar HDAV 1.3 Deluxe and Xonar HDAV Slim.

 

[bjmarchini]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jszei /forum/post/16919789


Vladd and Tulli have you both used the purchased version of WinDVD9 Plus Blu ray? The trial version does not support Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD playback. If you haven't used the full version then you would have no way of knowing if it will work. How do you know it will not bitstream with the Xonar HDAV?

+1


The full purchased version gives you options that don't even show up on the trial. And we mean the full retail purchased version of WinDVD 9 plus bluray. There are four versions. windvd 9 oem, windvd 9 standard(39), windvd 9 plus (59), and windvd 9 plus bluray (79).

Quote:
96 kHz/24-bit Audio Decoding

Take your movie experience to the next level with more realistic sounds and more accurate response that is capable of delivering both the subtle detail and even greater dynamic punch.

found this on wikipedia

Quote:
Even with an HDMI output, a computer may not support HDCP, Microsoft's Protected Video Path, or Microsoft's Protected Audio Path.[140][149] In the case of HDCP, there were several early graphic cards that were labelled as "HDCP-enabled" but did not actually have the necessary hardware for HDCP.[150] This included certain graphic cards based on the ATI X1600 chipset and certain models of the NVIDIA Geforce 7900 series.[150] The Protected Video Path was enabled in graphic cards that supported HDCP, since it was required for output of Blu-ray Disc video.[140] In comparison, the Protected Audio Path was only required if a lossless audio bitstream (such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA) was output.[140] Uncompressed LPCM audio, however, does not require a Protected Audio Path, and software programs such as PowerDVD and WinDVD can decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA and output it as LPCM.[140][147][148] A limitation is that if the computer does not support a Protected Audio Path, the audio must be downsampled to 16-bit 48 kHz but can still output at up to 8 channels.[140] No graphic cards were released in 2008 that supported the Protected Audio Path.[140]


In June 2008, Asus announced Xonar HDAV1.3, which in December 2008 received a software update and became the first HDMI sound card that supported the Protected Audio Path and can both bitstream and decode lossless audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA), although bitstreaming is only available if using the ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre software.[151][152] The Xonar HDAV1.3 has an HDMI 1.3 input/output, and Asus says that it can work with most video cards on the market.[151][152][153]


At WinHEC 2008, Microsoft announced that color depths of 30-bit and 48-bit would be supported in Windows 7 along with the wide color gamut scRGB (which can be converted and output as xvYCC).[154][155]

you may be right here. seems like it is not an option until a gpu card is released that supports it. sounds like it is a hardware limitation and not a software limitation.

 

[Tulli]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jszei /forum/post/16919789


Vladd and Tulli have you both used the purchased version of WinDVD9 Plus Blu ray? The trial version does not support Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD playback. If you haven't used the full version then you would have no way of knowing if it will work. How do you know it will not bitstream with the Xonar HDAV?

Yes, like Vladd I too can confirm that I have a purchased copy of WinDVD 9 Plus BD and also a Deluxe and Standard HDAV1.3.

 

[bjmarchini]

So what exactly is holding nvidia and ati back from makeing their cards PAP compliant anyway?


Seems to me all you would need is a newer driver.

 

[Tulli]

Right now PAP is being implemented proprietarily in a driver + video player solution. The audio protected path is not being done through the Windows OS so, at least for now, there's not much to expect from ATI or Nvidia alone.


EDIT: ... but, I forgot ... there's Slyplayer coming sometime ... hope soon!

 

[mekka4]



Quote:
Originally Posted by genro /forum/post/16902354


Because Customer Service/Marketing is clueless

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[/QUOTE]


very good word for it, clueless [IMG]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/biggrin.gif