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Does anyone have any experience with this new antenna? It was released in 12/03. Winegard claims a range of 50mi. UHF and 45mi. VHF, but they don't mention anything about how directional it is. Given its size, I could mount this outside and if it's omnidirectional enough, I'm hoping to be able to pull in stations from 2 cities (Balt. & DC are about 25-30 degrees apart). I have a CM 8-bay antenna in the attic (which I can't mount outside), but the size of this Winegard antenna would work fine outside. Warren Electronics supposedly has it for ~$99.


Here's a link:

Winegard Squareshooter
 

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I have seen this antenna in the real. It could easily mount to your exsisting dish (assuming you have one). No, it is not omni-directional though. It is supposed to be the best thing one the market right now though and i am interested to see how it works out.


PS. Your paying about $20 to much.
 

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I received an email from a former engeineer with our local ABC station. He was telling me that a tricky multipath problem in the downtown area was baffling even the CM4228. The Square Shooter was tried and worked. The spec sheet on the Winegard site shows the polar plots at various frequencies. The main thing I noticed was the lack of side lobes and small back lobe in the plots - meaning low sensitivity to signals coming from the side or back. So even with a 60 degree beamwidth it seems to perform well with multipath. But at $99???....
 

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I've had the SquareShooter for about a week now. Live in the city with buildings which are all higher than where the SS is mounted outside on a porch and have it aimed at a structure totally not in line-of-site with any of the broadcasting towers. I get all my digital stations with very good reception. My meter on my HD sat reciever shows the strength of all channels just below max. Tower distances ranges from about 35+ miles to about 10. It works as advertised and in no way fits under the category of the overpriced weak performing Terks as some have alluded to.


Bill
 

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I still have not do not have my square shooter mounted outside because of the weather. I am getting an ABC HD channel from Indianapolis IN that is 53 miles away with no preamp and the square shooter in a window. I am also getting a CBS HD channel that is 27 miles away in Lafayette IN which is not in the same direction as the ABC station.


I am very happy with the square shooter and think the price I paid is more than fair seeing that I did not have to buy mounting brackets and a pole to attach it to my house. The mounting equipment is included in the price.
 

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Where and at what price are people finding this antenna? Any reputable places selling it for under $99?


Thanks!


Dan
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Hitchman
Where and at what price are people finding this antenna? Any reputable places selling it for under $99?


Thanks!


Dan
Got mine from Warren Electronic. When I searched, they were the lowest at the price point you mentioned. They were prompt in filling the order, and I recieved it three days after ordering. No regrets here.



Bill
 

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I don't understand the logic behing the people who are complaining that the square shooter is too expensive??? Give me a break! People are dishing out $3k-$5k for nice HD RPTVs or more expensive plasmas, but gripe about a measley $100 antenna? There's something wrong with this logic! If you are going to spend thousands on a nice HDTV, I'm sure another $100 is not going to break the bank. Besides, as mentioned above, there are even more expensive antennas out there that can't even compete with the Square Shooter or come close to its performance. Buying overrated and overmarketed products from Terk is almost like the Monster cable dilemma. I have also purchased from Warren Electronics and received my square shooter the next day, even though I didn't pay overnight express price. I think it was because Warren is in IL and I live just across the border in Milwaukee, WI. Anyhow, got the antenna before the Super Bowl. Dish came out and installed my 811 system and so I had the guy put up my square shooter too. The Sqaure Shooter delivers as promised. It is that good. All my signal strengths are well above 90%. It also worked flawlessly inside my house propped up on my baby's highchair pointing out the window before the outdoor installation. The Super Bowl couldn't have looked any better on my new 50v500 with the help of the Square Shooter. Besides, this antenna has better curb appeal and WAF than something that is 6ft wide, 7ft tall and has a million fringes. You barely notice that it's on the side of your roof. That's my $.02 on this topic.
 

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Hi,


Has anyone tried the winegard in the San Jose/Sunnyvale area in the Bay Area? I'd really like to do with this solution but I'm but sure if the distance (40(?) miles) would be too big. I *can* pick everything up with a Silver Sensor indoors low down already however...


Jonathan
 

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Jotter - I'm using the Winegard SquareShooter in Mountain View. It's roof mounted on a two story townhouse. I also have a Winegard preamp, but i'm not really sure that its required. The real pain in the but is that they shut down the Sutro tower during the day, except Sundays, so the only good day to set it up is Sunday. I like it and highly recommend it for UHF. However, it is not a great solution for VHF. With the UHF well aimed and dialed in, I am getting 100% signals for all the UHF digital networks from Sutro, however, I don't get really any of the VHFs. The only pain in the but is NBC at 11-1 which broadcasts from Loma Prieta. There is a relay of it at 48-2 from Sutro, which is fine (although multicast), but unfortunately I don't get guide info for that channel.


Give it a shot.
 

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BTW, If you get everything with a Silver Sensor, then you'll get everything with the SquareShooter. If you mount it in the attic or outside, you won't get dropouts when people walk in front (like can happen with the indoor Silver Sensor - which I tried myself).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by tvxiong
I don't understand the logic behing the people who are complaining that the square shooter is too expensive??? Give me a break! People are dishing out $3k-$5k for nice HD RPTVs or more expensive plasmas, but gripe about a measley $100 antenna? There's something wrong with this logic! [...] Besides, this antenna has better curb appeal and WAF than something that is 6ft wide, 7ft tall and has a million fringes. You barely notice that it's on the side of your roof.
For gain (db) per dollar spent, this antenna is a joke. As has been pointed out elsewhere, you can buy a $0.99 loop that will get you about 2db of gain. This $100 (at discount) antenna gets you double that (just under, actually since it takes a whole 3 db to equal a true doubling of gain) which means that joining two $0.99 loops with a $2.99 combiner should get you similar results. Of course, nobody wants to spend $5 for an antenna that would look that ugly, so we add a nice $95 to the pricetag to put a durable plastic cover on it. PLEASE!


It is true that a high-gain UHF/VHF antenna will typically be large. Mine happens to be 18' long and the reflective dipole on the back is 12' across. But let's be realistic and compare sizes of a UHF/VHF antenna with similar gain. There is no magic here. The Squareshooter doesn't have some space-age technology that makes it work better. Compare it to a UHF/VHF combo that is about 18" square.


If you put that 6ft wide, 7ft long antenna up where you put the SquareShooter, you'd get much better reception over a wider range of frequencies, without the Squareshooter's odd VHF pattern that is skewed 45 degrees off-axis. And the odds are that you'd spend less for it. Would it look as pretty? No.


From what people are reporting here, the Winegard Squareshooter is a better performer than the Terk models. This comes as a (pleasant) shock to many of us. That doesn't change the fact that you will never find many of these in my neighborhood. It takes seriously large hardware to get the "local" stations, some of which are 55+ miles away. Can many people inside of 30 miles get away with a Squareshooter? Yes. But they could spend far less and buy a Channel Master 3021 and stick it in their attic and still get more gain.


Nobody is saying that spending $100 on an antenna is too much. I spent $950 on mine (including the 54' tower under it.) But for the money, there are better antennas out there.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by sregener
For gain (db) per dollar spent, this antenna is a joke.
I think your missing the whole point behind this antenna. Anyone in a suburban environment would be wise to spend less because there is plenty of other choices that would easily accomplish the job. This antenna is geared towards those in urban/metropolitan areas where multi path interference is common and also those that are located in environments where direct line of path to transmitting towers is impossible.


Please do tell me what other antenna is out there that accomodates the reception and modulation of reflected signals?? As far as I recollect, this is the only antenna I know of that was specifically designed to allow pointing of the antenna at another building to zero-in on the desired reflected signal, reject all other multi-path signals and still be able to modulate DTV/HDTV.



What say you??



Bill
 

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If you compare the polar plots for the Winegard SS and other antennas you will see why it works. It has very little sensitivity to anything other than signals arriving within +/- 30 degrees of the front axis. A plain loop has nearly equal sensitivity in all directions with slight reduction on the sides. So two of them together won't get you squat with any multipath. As far as gain goes, not all antennas have to have 15+ db gain for those 60+ mile stations. You choose the antenna to match the situation not vice versa. The SS is designed for a close-in multipath-ridden location. For under 30 miles 4db is plenty for decent receivers.


Look at the plots on the Winegard site and at:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html


There is actually some engineering going on in that little plastic box. I do agree it is overpriced, but that may change.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Biggles
Please do tell me what other antenna is out there that accomodates the reception and modulation of reflected signals?? As far as I recollect, this is the only antenna I know of that was specifically designed to allow pointing of the antenna at another building to zero-in on the desired reflected signal, reject all other multi-path signals and still be able to modulate DTV/HDTV.
I don't know what hype you bought in to, but this antenna is really nothing special. Beamwidth on channel 14 is nearly 70 degrees. That means that if you've got a ghost that is 45 degrees off from the main signal, you'll still get that ghost. Even if it's 60 degrees off. That's just not that great.


Granted, the front-to-back ratio on this guy is good. Probably the result of a solid screening material behind the elements.


If you point any directional antenna at a building, it will pick the reflected signal up.


However, antennas only become more directional when gain is increased, meaning that a 10-15db yagi will do a better job locking onto the reflected signal and rejecting the primary one. The Channel Master 4228 is said to be so directionally sensitive that a change of 3 degrees can be the difference between a solid signal and no lock at all. I suspect you could twist the SquareShooter 30-40 degrees before you'd see any change in signal strength at all.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by quarque
A plain loop has nearly equal sensitivity in all directions with slight reduction on the sides. So two of them together won't get you squat with any multipath. [...] For under 30 miles 4db is plenty for decent receivers.


There is actually some engineering going on in that little plastic box. I do agree it is overpriced, but that may change.
I agree that the $0.99 loop isn't very directional. Perhaps I should have substituted the $2.99 bowtie which is much more directional. Two of them together with an alumninum foil backing is probably pretty close to the SquareShooter's design.


I agree that 4db is plenty of gain in good-great signal areas. The question isn't "is the SquareShooter going to work for some people?" Of course it will. Bowties work for some people. Loops work for some people. Time and again, I hear "can I get away with using [Antenna X]?" Often, the answer is yes. But why, oh, why would you spend $100 to get an antenna that performs about the same as the Radio Shack Double-Bowtie for $15 or the Zenith Silver Sensor for $30? Why spend $100 to get a plastic housing over a weak-performing antenna? The answer, of course, is the WAF.


What's funny is that the people who love this thing don't really love it because it performs so great. They love it because it doesn't look like an antenna.
 

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I think the reason that people have a hard time paying a 100 dollars for an antenna when they just spent 3 grand on a tv is that the tv is new tech, but a tv antenna is a half centure old. That is plenty of time to perfect designs and lower costs.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by quarque
If you compare the polar plots for the Winegard SS and other antennas you will see why it works... There is actually some engineering going on in that little plastic box. I do agree it is overpriced, but that may change.
If you compare the plots, you'll see why it doesn't work. As I explain HERE , in the similar thread in the Hardware Forum, Winegard uses different graph paper for its polar charts than HDTVprimer does. The UHF plots for the Square Shooter just aren't any better than what you get from a 4-bay bowtie with a reflector screen. You might find an off-axis angle here and there where the Square Shooter rejects better, but then there would be other oblique angles at which the multi-bay bowtie rejects better.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I think the reason that people have a hard time paying a 100 dollars for an antenna when they just spent 3 grand on a tv is that the tv is new tech, but a tv antenna is a half centure old. That is plenty of time to perfect designs and lower costs.
There is this myth, and it's fairly common. It goes something like this: Things generally make progress and anything that is old is not as good as something that is new. We can all think of exceptions to this rule, but it still creeps into our thinking more than we'd care to admit.


The fact is that those engineers 50 years ago knew a thing or two about radio frequencies, broadcasting, and reception. Remember that RF technology was hardly new in 1950. The first radio broadcasts were over 30 years in the past then.


The biggest refinement in antenna technology has been the preamplifier. These truly are a marvel. I grew up in a house with adequate reception. My parents put on a preamplifier a few years ago (and didn't replace the 20 year old antenna) and get pictures far superior to anything I remember growing up.


Physics, in spite of progress, refuses to change and we're dealing with radio waves and radio propogation which haven't changed an iota since 1950 (really, since 1950BC, we just weren't using them then.)
 
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