R9 290 x costs somewhere between $750-850. It would need to be a lot of improvement to justify the expense.
With madVR NNEDI3 OpenCL chroma upscaler and DirectCompute Error Diffusion you can forget about a cheap HTPC...
My 3770K @ 4.5Ghz CPU, ASUS Z77 Sabertooth motherboard, 8Gb of RAM (need more!), ASUS GeForce 770 GTX 2Gb, Samsung 830 256Gb and Crucial M4 128Gb SSDs, 750Gb 7200rpm HDD, and the latest Windows 8.1 (Escrow performance update) are barely keeping up with madVR's new NNEDI3 and Error Diffusion features. The results are absolutely stunning in regard to video image quality and fidelity, but my videocard GPU is always at about 80C, even without being overclocked, and with aggressive fan profile. I do have to overclock it to make things real smooth with SD NNEDI3 luma doubling at 32 neurons while preserving at least 32 neurons for NNEDI3 chroma upscaling. This wasn't meant to be an HTPC, but a medium-high end gaming PC. I only play at 1080p and don't care for some features like using 4x AA, so I can still run the latest patched BF4 (even with 4x AA) and still get acceptable framerate. I can't get past 64 neurons for chroma upscaling when watching 1080p HD content and not using any image doubling. I can't even make SVP work well at high settings without frame drops as I also use madVR 3DLUT processing and the de-banding feature.
This PC is truly a bare minimum, except 16Gb RAM is preferred if you plan on doing any type of encoding or trying to create a 256x256x256 3DLUT. Of course you also need way more HDD space if you want to have a real library of films and TV Shows. Windows 8.1 Escrow Update RTM really helped with overall PC performance, but it didn't improve media playback performance.
NNEDI3 uses OpenCL, while Error Diffusion uses DirectCompute in the latest madVR test builds. AMD cards outperform nVidia cards in OpenCL, and I think in Direct Compute too, but I am about to buy a G-Sync, which will be only nVidia compatible, so I am stuck with nVidia. I think an upgrade to GeForce GTX 780 Ti Super-clocked Black edition or GeForce Titan Ti Black Edition would be an improvement, but it would be easily out-performed by even AMD R9 290, and definitely by R9 290x!
My 3770K @ 4.5Ghz CPU, ASUS Z77 Sabertooth motherboard, 8Gb of RAM (need more!), ASUS GeForce 770 GTX 2Gb, Samsung 830 256Gb and Crucial M4 128Gb SSDs, 750Gb 7200rpm HDD, and the latest Windows 8.1 (Escrow performance update) are barely keeping up with madVR's new NNEDI3 and Error Diffusion features. The results are absolutely stunning in regard to video image quality and fidelity, but my videocard GPU is always at about 80C, even without being overclocked, and with aggressive fan profile. I do have to overclock it to make things real smooth with SD NNEDI3 luma doubling at 32 neurons while preserving at least 32 neurons for NNEDI3 chroma upscaling. This wasn't meant to be an HTPC, but a medium-high end gaming PC. I only play at 1080p and don't care for some features like using 4x AA, so I can still run the latest patched BF4 (even with 4x AA) and still get acceptable framerate. I can't get past 64 neurons for chroma upscaling when watching 1080p HD content and not using any image doubling. I can't even make SVP work well at high settings without frame drops as I also use madVR 3DLUT processing and the de-banding feature.
This PC is truly a bare minimum, except 16Gb RAM is preferred if you plan on doing any type of encoding or trying to create a 256x256x256 3DLUT. Of course you also need way more HDD space if you want to have a real library of films and TV Shows. Windows 8.1 Escrow Update RTM really helped with overall PC performance, but it didn't improve media playback performance.
NNEDI3 uses OpenCL, while Error Diffusion uses DirectCompute in the latest madVR test builds. AMD cards outperform nVidia cards in OpenCL, and I think in Direct Compute too, but I am about to buy a G-Sync, which will be only nVidia compatible, so I am stuck with nVidia. I think an upgrade to GeForce GTX 780 Ti Super-clocked Black edition or GeForce Titan Ti Black Edition would be an improvement, but it would be easily out-performed by even AMD R9 290, and definitely by R9 290x!
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
That's just short term market inflation from lite coin miners driving demand.
AMD just launched new cards (r250x, r265x based on 7850, r280x and r285)
The R9 290X will likely be $399 for a while but that's a pretty serious card and I wouldn't expect serious price drops until next the next generation launches on the 7990 based models.
The 265x is quite a nice improvement over a 7790 (35%) with msrp $149, driving down the r7260 to $99
I'd guess the sweet spot in gaming or serious MadVR would be double r9 270x cards or r280. Likely $199 each, and under $400 for two. No single card is going to touch that for only $400.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign /t/1518240/with-madvr-nnedi3-opencl...forget-about-a-cheap-htpc/0_100#post_24368110
R9 290 x costs somewhere between $750-850. It would need to be a lot of improvement to justify the expense.
That's just short term market inflation from lite coin miners driving demand.
AMD just launched new cards (r250x, r265x based on 7850, r280x and r285)
The R9 290X will likely be $399 for a while but that's a pretty serious card and I wouldn't expect serious price drops until next the next generation launches on the 7990 based models.
The 265x is quite a nice improvement over a 7790 (35%) with msrp $149, driving down the r7260 to $99
I'd guess the sweet spot in gaming or serious MadVR would be double r9 270x cards or r280. Likely $199 each, and under $400 for two. No single card is going to touch that for only $400.
For home theater people who do not play games, these alternatives in MadVR bring new questions about which graphics card will be enough. Renethx wrote a while back that Madshi's development of MadVR would require more capable graphics cards. In the past I simply depended on Renethx to tell me which graphics card to buy. MadVR is a work in progress. However, home theater folks who want to learn more about graphics cards might take a look at this article: The Myths about Graphics Card Performance Debunked: Part 1
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-myths,3694.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-myths,3694.html
Yeah I just read that a few days ago. Nice article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign /t/1518240/with-madvr-nnedi3-opencl...forget-about-a-cheap-htpc/0_100#post_24369163
For home theater people who do not play games, these alternatives in MadVR bring new questions about which graphics card will be enough. Renethx wrote a while back that Madshi's development of MadVR would require more capable graphics cards. In the past I simply depended on Renethx to tell me which graphics card to buy. MadVR is a work in progress. However, home theater folks who want to learn more about graphics cards might take a look at this article: The Myths about Graphics Card Performance Debunked: Part 1
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-card-myths,3694.html
Yeah I just read that a few days ago. Nice article.
I think it's important to say that these new features are nothing but "bonus" options for people who want to put their mighty GPUs to good use. Yes, image quality improves. But does it improve enough to justify the GPU price? That's not for me to answer, of course. Everybody should decide for themselves. In any case, it's perfectly fine to *not* use these new features. I've been told by several users now that they prefer madVR's Jinc3 AR upscaling algorithm to some highly regarded upscaling algorithms in the market (e.g. from Lumagen). So even if your GPU can't handle NNEDI3, but "just" Jinc3 AR, you're still getting top-of-the-line upscaling quality. And since GPU performance gets better every year, at some point in the future probably even budget/integrated GPUs are going to be able to do NNEDI3.
AMD cards do the same thing but target 95C and don't care about how loud the fan gets when they do it.
I use NNEDI scaling on SD content but not HD content. It looks great.
HD content doesn't seem to benefit as much from it anyway.
Nvidia high-end cards have a thermal target of 80C, adjusting their clock speeds higher or lower to give the maximum performance at that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by SCProCalibrator /t/1518240/with-madvr-nnedi3-opencl...forget-about-a-cheap-htpc/0_100#post_24367282
The results are absolutely stunning in regard to video image quality and fidelity, but my videocard GPU is always at about 80C, even without being overclocked, and with aggressive fan profile.
AMD cards do the same thing but target 95C and don't care about how loud the fan gets when they do it.
I use NNEDI scaling on SD content but not HD content. It looks great.
HD content doesn't seem to benefit as much from it anyway.
Thanks for weighing in madshi. I would not use the qualifier "just" with jinc3+AR. I am amazed by the improvement in image quality. As image quality is in the eyes of the beholder I would expect a range of opinions
But, I miss Renethx's hierarchy charts, demonstration images and graphic card recommendations to handle now NNED13.
But, I miss Renethx's hierarchy charts, demonstration images and graphic card recommendations to handle now NNED13.
Great point ^. It's only about $99 for a Radeon that will run great on Jinc 3 film, not out of reach for most people. I use Jinc3 and have been happy and I admit I haven't even tried NNEDI3 until I upgrade my GPU card yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi /t/1518240/with-madvr-nnedi3-opencl...forget-about-a-cheap-htpc/0_100#post_24371425
I think it's important to say that these new features are nothing but "bonus" options for people who want to put their mighty GPUs to good use. Yes, image quality improves. But does it improve enough to justify the GPU price? That's not for me to answer, of course. Everybody should decide for themselves. In any case, it's perfectly fine to *not* use these new features. I've been told by several users now that they prefer madVR's Jinc3 AR upscaling algorithm to some highly regarded upscaling algorithms in the market (e.g. from Lumagen). So even if your GPU can't handle NNEDI3, but "just" Jinc3 AR, you're still getting top-of-the-line upscaling quality. And since GPU performance gets better every year, at some point in the future probably even budget/integrated GPUs are going to be able to do NNEDI3.
Great point ^. It's only about $99 for a Radeon that will run great on Jinc 3 film, not out of reach for most people. I use Jinc3 and have been happy and I admit I haven't even tried NNEDI3 until I upgrade my GPU card yet.
+1 on missing ReneTHX input on this stuff. I wish I had his email.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign /t/1518240/with-madvr-nnedi3-opencl...forget-about-a-cheap-htpc/0_100#post_24372025
Thanks for weighing in madshi. I would not use the qualifier "just" with jinc3+AR. I am amazed by the improvement in image quality. As image quality is in the eyes of the beholder I would expect a range of opinions
But, I miss Renethx's hierarchy charts, demonstration images and graphic card recommendations to handle now NNED13.
+1 on missing ReneTHX input on this stuff. I wish I had his email.
I have been given a 290x graphics card, but only have a i5 2300 processor- can anyone tell me if I'm likely to be able to run nnedi3 and SVP on max settings with this setup or will I need to be getting a new processor? If not, how high am I likely to get the settings to go? I understand I can offload much of the SVP workload to the gpu- so was hoping this might be possible with such a monster graphics card?
Oh yes, one other thing, for a 1080p bluray rip, kept lossless, does madvr have any effect\ make any improvement at all?
Oh yes, one other thing, for a 1080p bluray rip, kept lossless, does madvr have any effect\ make any improvement at all?
Experiment with different methods of error diffusion or don't use error diffusion. Some methods of error diffusion use a lot of processing power and I have never found much benefit.I have been given a 290x graphics card, but only have a i5 2300 processor- can anyone tell me if I'm likely to be able to run nnedi3 and SVP on max settings with this setup or will I need to be getting a new processor? If not, how high am I likely to get the settings to go? I understand I can offload much of the SVP workload to the gpu- so was hoping this might be possible with such a monster graphics card?
Oh yes, one other thing, for a 1080p bluray rip, kept lossless, does madvr have any effect\ make any improvement at all?
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
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