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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, if any of you have seen my posts on my quest for new speakers, you probably have an idea what I have been considering. Because I am not that versed on what all the stats mean, I thought I would ask you. After looking at these stats on towers, then center channels, and surrounds, which would you pick and why to go with my Denon AVR4800 & SVS powered cylinder sub?


Front Speaker Comparison

Specifications - TowerSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db27hz-20khz70hz-24khz45hz-24khz
Sensitivity86db98db92db
Recommended Amplification20-300 watts RMSup to 1200 watts RMS20-300 watts RMS
Impedance6 ohm4 ohm6 ohm
Dimensions41" H x 7.5" W x 16" D26.5"x12.25"x14:43.5" H x 8" W x 12" D
Weight74 lbs75lbs65lbs
ConnectorsNickel plated 5-wayBinding PostGold Plated Binding Post
Price$899$1,099$899

Center Channel Comparison

Specifications - CenterSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db50hz-20khz73hz-20khz80hz-20khz (half space)
Sensitivity87db87db95db
Recommended Amplification40-300 watts RMS200 wattsup to 600 watts RMS
Impedance6 ohm6 ohm8 ohm
Dimensions9" H x 24.75" W x 11" D7 5/8" H x 21.875" W x 8.25" D14"x9.75"x10" (HxWxD)
Weight39lbs23lbs25lbs
ConnectorsGold Plated Binding PostNickel plated 5-wayBinding Post
Price$699$450$799

Surround Speakers

Specifications - SurroundsSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db80hz-20khz (half space)59hz-20khz45hz-20khz
Sensitivity95db87db87db
Recommended Amplificationup to 600 watts RMS20-300 watts RMS200 watts
Impedance8 ohm6 ohm8 ohm
Dimensions12"x12"x12.25" (HxWxD)13" H x 7.5" W x 9" D13.75" H x 7.5" W x 10.375" D
Weight27lbs14lbs20lbs
ConnectorsBinding PostGold Plated Binding PostNickel plated 5-way
Price$799$299$375
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy
So, if any of you have seen my posts on my quest for new speakers, you probably have an idea what I have been considering. Because I am not that versed on what all the stats mean, I thought I would ask you. After looking at these stats on towers, then center channels, and surrounds, which would you pick and why to go with my Denon AVR4800 & SVS powered cylinder sub?


Front Speaker Comparison

Specifications - TowerSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db27hz-20khz70hz-24khz45hz-24khz
Sensitivity86db98db92db
Recommended Amplification20-300 watts RMSup to 1200 watts RMS20-300 watts RMS
Impedance6 ohm4 ohm6 ohm
Dimensions41" H x 7.5" W x 16" D26.5"x12.25"x14:43.5" H x 8" W x 12" D
Weight74 lbs75lbs65lbs
ConnectorsNickel plated 5-wayBinding PostGold Plated Binding Post
Price$899$1,099$899

Center Channel Comparison

Specifications - CenterSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db50hz-20khz73hz-20khz80hz-20khz (half space)
Sensitivity87db87db95db
Recommended Amplification40-300 watts RMS200 wattsup to 600 watts RMS
Impedance6 ohm6 ohm8 ohm
Dimensions9" H x 24.75" W x 11" D7 5/8" H x 21.875" W x 8.25" D14"x9.75"x10" (HxWxD)
Weight39lbs23lbs25lbs
ConnectorsGold Plated Binding PostNickel plated 5-wayBinding Post
Price$699$450$799

Surround Speakers

Specifications - SurroundsSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db80hz-20khz (half space)59hz-20khz45hz-20khz
Sensitivity95db87db87db
Recommended Amplificationup to 600 watts RMS20-300 watts RMS200 watts
Impedance8 ohm6 ohm8 ohm
Dimensions12"x12"x12.25" (HxWxD)13" H x 7.5" W x 9" D13.75" H x 7.5" W x 10.375" D
Weight27lbs14lbs20lbs
ConnectorsBinding PostGold Plated Binding PostNickel plated 5-way
Price$799$299$375
It's not that easy. First, how big is the room, are there room treatments, what are the other sources..
 

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1. What SPL levels do you want?

2. What Content do you listen too (movies, music, what kind of music)? Do you care about clean dynamics?

3. What listening distance?

4. Do looks matter?

5. Do you care about technical design behind any speaker to confirm its technical accuracy?

6. Do your subs run nicely to 100Hz? Are they located near the front speakers? 70Hz speakers need to be XOed around 100Hz if you care about smoothness XO slopes.



There are always going to be compromises in any speaker choices, its very important to understand all those compromises (IMO). Example, Its really easy for most to live with an imprefect XO between a 70Hz speaker and a sub XOed at 80Hz. Its pretty easy to live with the dynamic issues of 87dB speakers if your requirements are such that those dynamics are not the highest priority.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by neekos
It's not that easy. First, how big is the room, are there room treatments, what are the other sources..
What he said.


Also, you can't just pick any random set of speakers to use for your front main, front center, and your surrounds. The speakers should be timbre matched or else it'll sound "off." Just looking at those stats, I can tell which speakers you are looking at, but you need to give people more information on room size etc.

*With that said, I pick the JTR*
 

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Kathy,


Nobody with an ounce of knowledge about speakers(particulary speakers!) would choose a speaker based on specs. I'm going to save you some time on this thread and tell you that you will not get any useful answer from anyone that knows anything about speakers. Conversely, ignore any advice you get from anyone based solely on those specs you posted. EDIT: except, perhaps, from the guy who posted right above me that also knew one of them were JTR's)


If you want advice you have to give up the shell game
 

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I have been in all your threads and you are going around in circles.

Your ears and personality are most important - Time to work on a

30 day in home trial.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray
1. What SPL levels do you want? Do not know, sorry

2. What Content do you listen too (movies, music, what kind of music)? Do you care about clean dynamics? 50% TV, 40% Movies, 10% Music. I could see this changing if I became infatuated with the sound. Clean dynamics? If this means what I think, I loved listening to a pair of Sonus Faber speakers where you could not tell where the sound was coming from, it all blended together so well. I was also impressed with Paradigm Studio Reference 60s and 490 center speaker that I heard out in the middle of a big box store. Came home played the same song on my Klipsch Reference speakers, and it was so muffled and not crisp like the Paradigms.

3. What listening distance? 13'

4. Do looks matter? Yes, it's a living room, but I would consider ugly if they sounded great

5. Do you care about technical design behind any speaker to confirm its technical accuracy? not knowledgeable enough to answer

6. Do your subs run nicely to 100Hz? Are they located near the front speakers? 70Hz speakers need to be XOed around 100Hz if you care about smoothness XO slopes. Do not know, I have a SVS 20-39 powered cylinder sub, which is located in a corner 7' to the right and 4' behind the center of the TV & Speakers



There are always going to be compromises in any speaker choices, its very important to understand all those compromises (IMO). Example, Its really easy for most to live with an imprefect XO between a 70Hz speaker and a sub XOed at 80Hz. Its pretty easy to live with the dynamic issues of 87dB speakers if your requirements are such that those dynamics are not the highest priority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01
I have been in all your threads and you are going around in circles.

Your ears and personality are most important - Time to work on a

30 day in home trial.
I agree I need a 30 day in home trial, but I don't think a 30 day trial is available from JTR Speakers. I have now been to three different places listening to speakers, the same speakers sound totally different in different stores.


I have also restricted my choices by the center channel opening (25 3/4" x 9 5/8" x 17"), which I am living with because my new stand is coming from Standout Designs and I am very excited about having this very nice piece of furniture. Also, with this stand, I will be limiting my available space for speakers to 20" on each side and the farthest distance from the rear will be 12", so I am not sure what that means for speakers with rear ports or those with side firing subwoofers (NHT Classic 4).


I also think it's time to learn about room treatments since my room is so large and open to other rooms. Jeff was nice enough to provide me with some links to a couple vendors.


I know most people say get whatever sounds good to your ears, but so far the more $$$s you spend seems to be a better sounding speaker. The $13,000 Sonus Faber speakers have been the best I have heard so far, but way out of my budget. I really do not want to exceed $5,000.


I threw those specs out there to see if there was one or two specs that were important to pay attention to when looking for speakers. Obviously, I don't know what to look for, but being a number cruncher, I was hoping for a concrete measurement as an evaluating tool.
 

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Specs can be helpful, as well as graphs like these . You have to know what to look for. I would use them only to narrow down a list of potential candidates.


I've heard speakers with good specs which didn't sound that great to me. As mentioned, there's nothing like listening, preferably in the space where they'll be used.
 

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You say you do not know what SPL (sound pressure level) that you listen to. Well then let me ask you this. Do you auto calibrate you current system using your AVR? What is your current AVR? When you want to crank up the volume, what is the volume knob set to? Are you happy at that volume level or do you stop going louder because it starts to sound bad? With a good room with good speakers, reference level sounds good. It is loud, but the speakers still sound clean and not distorted.


What I am trying to find is the max SPL that you are looking for in a system. If you like it loud and clean at times, then you need to be looking at speakers with high SPL capability. If you listen at modest levels, never cranking it up, then you do not need a high SPL capable speaker.


You might go to the JTR thread and ask if anybody near you has JTR speakers that you can listen to for a demo. Same with your other choices. You will need to note the type and size of the room along with the treatments. Since it will be different from your room.


I will tell you this, An 86db speaker that can handle 300 watt peaks will max out around 95db at the listening position and it may still be straining at that point. I allowed only 3db for power compression and 3db for headroom. If you are fine with a speaker that can reach 10db below reference, then they can be considered. Personally I would never consider a speaker below 92db for HT use, but I like my movies loud and you lose dynamic capability with lower sensitivity speakers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy /forum/post/19605073


So, if any of you have seen my posts on my quest for new speakers, you probably have an idea what I have been considering. Because I am not that versed on what all the stats mean, I thought I would ask you. After looking at these stats on towers, then center channels, and surrounds, which would you pick and why to go with my Denon AVR4800 & SVS powered cylinder sub?


Front Speaker Comparison

Specifications - TowerSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db27hz-20khz70hz-24khz45hz-24khz
Sensitivity86db98db92db
Recommended Amplification20-300 watts RMSup to 1200 watts RMS20-300 watts RMS
Impedance6 ohm4 ohm6 ohm
Dimensions41" H x 7.5" W x 16" D26.5"x12.25"x14:43.5" H x 8" W x 12" D
Weight74 lbs75lbs65lbs
ConnectorsNickel plated 5-wayBinding PostGold Plated Binding Post
Price$899$1,099$899

Center Channel Comparison

Specifications - CenterSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db50hz-20khz73hz-20khz80hz-20khz (half space)
Sensitivity87db87db95db
Recommended Amplification40-300 watts RMS200 wattsup to 600 watts RMS
Impedance6 ohm6 ohm8 ohm
Dimensions9" H x 24.75" W x 11" D7 5/8" H x 21.875" W x 8.25" D14"x9.75"x10" (HxWxD)
Weight39lbs23lbs25lbs
ConnectorsGold Plated Binding PostNickel plated 5-wayBinding Post
Price$699$450$799

Surround Speakers

Specifications - SurroundsSpeaker #1Speaker #2Speaker #3
Frequency +/_3db80hz-20khz (half space)59hz-20khz45hz-20khz
Sensitivity95db87db87db
Recommended Amplificationup to 600 watts RMS20-300 watts RMS200 watts
Impedance8 ohm6 ohm8 ohm
Dimensions12"x12"x12.25" (HxWxD)13" H x 7.5" W x 9" D13.75" H x 7.5" W x 10.375" D
Weight27lbs14lbs20lbs
ConnectorsBinding PostGold Plated Binding PostNickel plated 5-way
Price$799$299$375

To quote Richard Vandersteen: "The ears are the bottom line, the final piece of test equipment.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc /forum/post/19605294


Kathy,


Nobody with an ounce of knowledge about speakers(particulary speakers!) would choose a speaker based on specs.

FWIW, I buy or build based on accurate specs and measurements. The key is actually getting accurate specs and measurements.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/19608109


FWIW, I buy or build based on accurate specs and measurements. The key is actually getting accurate specs and measurements.

Ok...so based on the specs she posted, what would you recommend to her? Assuming they're accurate.
 

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I haven't heard the JTR's but I would choose NHT over Paradigm's Studio/SE/Monitor series. I think it's important for you to figure out your desired max volume, a lot of people (NOT ME) think efficiency is very important, and it is if you want to play at very loud "reference level" volumes, but not everyone does. Your budget seems pretty high, Triad and Salk might be interesting for you.


Ron
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs /forum/post/19608662


.........


I think it's important for you to figure out your desired max volume, a lot of people (NOT ME) think efficiency is very important, and it is if you want to play at very loud "reference level" volumes, but not everyone does. ..........


Ron

Sensitivity rating being higher for one, of two potential speakers, the two being otherwise identical, is a beneficial in more reasons other than just ability to play loudly.


The higher sensitivity speaker has a distinct advantage even at moderate levels. It is more responsive and linear wrt frequency.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH /forum/post/19608768


Sensitivity rating being higher for one, of two potential speakers, the two being otherwise identical, is a beneficial in more reasons other than just ability to play loudly.


The higher sensitivity speaker has a distinct advantage even at moderate levels. It is more responsive and linear wrt frequency.

They are never "otherwise identical," there are always tradeoffs i.e. compromises.


P.S. Linear?


Ron
 

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Personally for HT I'd stay away from anything below 90db sensitivity. No matter how good it sounds at lower volumes it will sound really bad once you begin to push them and distortion kicks in which will happen way below reference with an 86-87 db speaker. From what I gather most hear listen at 10db below all the way up to reference. Personally I usually listen at -5db and it's loud but really not that loud...my whole family finds it a very comfortable level. Like MJG100 stated....I'd shoot for 92db or greater sensitivity wise.


Here's a little quick spl calculator to get you in the "ballpark" of what you need for your listening distance.
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html


Reference level is 105db by the way.


Having a little headroom is recommended. Select one speaker, away from wall. If your using an AVR and not a seperate amp be aware that most AVRs are way overrated. Many claim 100x7 and may only really put out 70x7 with all channels driven...some are worse.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy /forum/post/19607074


I have now been to three different places listening to speakers, the same speakers sound totally different in different stores.

There's part of your answer. Not only do they sound different in those stores, but they will be different in YOUR room, and that's the only one that matters.


Answering the questions posted by Penn will narrow your choices down to a half dozen or so of the popular options. At that point, your personal taste is absolutely the largest variable.
 
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