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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When are they ever going to stop changing the HDTV signal standards and making my receivers obsolete? Come on, it's been 10 years already, just pick one method and stick with it! I'm getting tired of buying new receivers every time some or all of the stations won't come in anymore! Since 1999 I've gone through 4 generations of Samsung receiver boxes and 3 generations of PC receiver boards. At first I was just buying TV receiver STB's but then I found that combination DirecTV and HDTV units were cheaper so I had settled on the SIR-TS360 since it heated up the least, didn't need a fan and had great reception along with outputs for any kind of TV or computer monitor. I have 6of them that had been working fine until the first of the year but then started dropping out channels. I used to be able to get all the Phoenix and Tucson stations but first Ch. 45 wouldn't come in, then I lost Ch. 5 and then Ch. 15 from Phoenix on 5 of the units. I have one unit that still works to get all the channels and I think it has had the most firmware updates, 4, which is more than the others. Besides the Samsungs I have a Hughes HTL-HD unit and a couple of DirecTV H10's but the H10's don't get any sound on 7-1 and 7-2 (KAZT DT) anymore so who knows how much longer they will last?

Are there any station engineers on here that can tell me why you keep changing things so your stations can't be received? Isn't it counter-productive to cause the viewers not to be able to receive your station anymore so why do you keep making it hard as possible to get it?
 

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Must be a local problem.
 

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Is this message from the future when we have MPEG-4/h.264/AVC signals? (if that ever happens)


All of the ATSC receivers I've ever had still work. Older generations are not as good at multi-path, but that's not due to signal changes, but better chips in the receivers.


I know that the UK is going through this with 2k vs. 8k modes, but that doesn't affect us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have a big stack of older receivers that are obsolete and won't get any stations now. At some point the broadcasters should be forced to stop making changes and stick with what they have or they should be required to release firmware updates to fix all the boxes that were killed by the change.

Last year I heard there was a movement to start providing firmware updates over the air but I haven't heard anything about it lately so I don't think it went anywere.
 

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Maybe your antenna isn't properly grounded, and your boxes are getting damaged.


If the boxes aren't damaged, maybe something has caused the condition of your antenna (or wiring or connections) to degrade, and only the newer boxes with their better tuners can get a lock.
 

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I'm running a tuner from 2001 without issue. I think you have equipment problems.


- Trip
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The only equipment problems are ones caused by the stations. As an example there are some new Spanish stations that came on the air in Phoenix last year. One on 38-1 is called IzPelic, 38-2 IzClass, 38-3 IzVideo and 38-4 IzHope but the data being transmitted on each stream to identify it doesn't actually match the streams so the only one that will come in is 38-4 but it's not really IzHope, it's actually IzVideo that should be on 44-3! I don't know what any of that means but IzVideo is music videos and it comes in on 38-4. I don't care about the Spanish stations or how screwed up they are, I want to get 5 and 15 because those are ABC and CBS.
 

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Considering that nobody else has these issues and you do, this points to your equipment.


- Trip
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA /forum/post/18258300


I'm running a tuner from 2001 without issue. I think you have equipment problems.

- Trip

I doubt any tuners that old will still work in the Phoenix area. My older ones won't get any stations at all now since they've changed the data streams so many times and the tuners are no longer compatable. The one SIR-TS360 that still works is the one that has the most firmware updates. Unfortunately I don't subscribe to DirecTV so I have no way to update the others and nobody seems to be making updates available anymore. For a while Samsung had 2 updates for the SIR-T150 but they stopped making updates available as soon as they quit selling that model so they quickly died after the next change in the data streams.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA /forum/post/18258442


Considering that nobody else has these issues and you do, this points to your equipment.

- Trip

Now you're just being silly. How could my equipment make Ch. 38 send the wrong data identifying their channels or Ch. 7 start using a non-standard audio stream?
 

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K38IZ-D is another story. You were talking about channels 5, 15, and 45. Those stations are airing fully ATSC-compliant streams. I know several people in the Phoenix area and none have complained of issues like yours, even those with older receivers.


- Trip
 

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Hey stevec50 are you here to get help or are you here to disagree with everyone when they don't tell you what you want to hear. The guys giving you advice know their stuff then you come back saying "No you're wrong" Well if you have all the fricking answers why are you posting asking questions? You're asking because you DO NOT know the answer. So STFU and quit arguing and listen for once.
 

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^^^ I agree. You asked for help on this issue, and everyone has told you that NOBODY else has had this problem.


If you are using an antenna, then the broadcast standards have only changed ONCE since 1999. That was last year, during the switch from NTSC to ATSC. Other than that, NOTHING has changed with OTA. I don't know why you are blaming the "broadcasters". I work for a tv station, and have only changed our "standards" once, last year. So again, if you are having problems, either your antenna is bad, or your equipment is failing. It's NOT because of "changing standards" like you say. If you are on cable or satellite, then it's that company that is changing the signals...

Quote:
Now you're just being silly. How could my equipment make Ch. 38 send the wrong data identifying their channels or Ch. 7 start using a non-standard audio stream?

It IS your equipment. Have you tried re-scanning your channels? That usually fixes it for me.
 

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I was gonna suggest you try the Phoenix, AZ thread in the local HD info section to see how many other people in your local broadcast area are having problems but it looks like you already found it....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=kazt


To back what these guys said, nothing has changed with the ATSC standard since it went live, the only thing that may have changed recently is the physical station your local stations broadcast on after the analog channels were shut down. A rescan may be required after that. As for the stand showing the wrong channel numbers, sounds like they are sending out bad PSIP data or you need to re-scan again.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec50 /forum/post/18258238


I have a big stack of older receivers that are obsolete and won't get any stations now. At some point the broadcasters should be forced to stop making changes and stick with what they have or they should be required to release firmware updates to fix all the boxes that were killed by the change.

Last year I heard there was a movement to start providing firmware updates over the air but I haven't heard anything about it lately so I don't think it went anywere.

I am a broadcast engineer and I can tell you the standards haven't changed. There have been refinements, but the basics that will allow ALL receivers manufactured no matter what refinements are added are still there and there are FCC rules that require that broadcasters send data so that ALL receivers work no matter what refinements are made. The transmission standards MUST be backwards compatible by law.


The real issue is NONE of the receiver manufacturers implement the full ATSC protocol and that causes all kinds of issues from receiver to receiver. That is where the "planned" obsolescence is. There are NO FCC rules governing receiver standards. Those manufacturers can pretty much build what they want and for the cheapest price. Broadcasters don't have that luxury. We have TONS of government oversight.
 

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I have to agree with foxeng on the last comment....we have two (co-owned) channels of Azteca in SLC that seem to have some sort of PSIP error in their signals. So, some boxes and receivers will work fine, while others will "find" the station, but cannot make video and audio from it. It's due to variables in the way the boxes are designed, not only from manufacturer to manufactures, but even in model to model.

Hopefully, some of us engineers will find the fix for them soon.


As for stevec50, some of the older boxes do not fully implement the ATSC standards. We found issues with audio "numbering" for instance, early on.

If you are using DirecTV-capable boxes, why not ask someone to connect them to their (HD) dishes for a day or so, and see if they get updates via satellite?


Otherwise, I would suggest contacting the stations engineers directly, and see what they say.
 
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