Of course lower prices in hardware and software would help BR. Alot of people out there that can't justify the price of either in comparison to DVD.
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Would Inexpensive BR Player help Sony?
Currently, I have an HD DVD player, but have not been purchasing any new HD DVDs with the WB announcement. I was format neutral and said "The First technology to hit $150 will win me over". HD DVD did just that. I actually purchased mine for $90 from Circuit City during the big Walmart Sell. It was a no brainer to me. If HD DVD failed, I'd have an Upconverting Player that I needed for the theater anyway.
So, I'm back to square one. I won't purchase a BR player until the prices fall well below $200. More like $150 to be honest. I don't see this happening anytime soon giving the prices of the players today.
Would a decision from Sony to sell one a BR player for sub $200 be the nail in the coffin for HD DVD? Many still believe HD DVD has a chance, but I do not, even though I own one and love it. I'm thinking with the announcement of WB going BR exclusive, an inexpensive BR player is all SONY would need to drive this one home.
What do you think? (For those that will say cost isn't an issue on a better technology, etc. etc. Remember, there are enthusiasts like me who have other priorities and cannot justify $400-$500 for a new BR player. There are more people out there in this boat than those that believe cost isn't an issue)
So, I'm back to square one. I won't purchase a BR player until the prices fall well below $200. More like $150 to be honest. I don't see this happening anytime soon giving the prices of the players today.
Would a decision from Sony to sell one a BR player for sub $200 be the nail in the coffin for HD DVD? Many still believe HD DVD has a chance, but I do not, even though I own one and love it. I'm thinking with the announcement of WB going BR exclusive, an inexpensive BR player is all SONY would need to drive this one home.
What do you think? (For those that will say cost isn't an issue on a better technology, etc. etc. Remember, there are enthusiasts like me who have other priorities and cannot justify $400-$500 for a new BR player. There are more people out there in this boat than those that believe cost isn't an issue)
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
You are correct about that. Most 'normal' people (given we aren't normal) can't tell the difference. I was just thinking that for the BR market, lowering the prices for one of the players may be all that SONY would need to bury HD DVD for good and move on. I am not buying any more HD DVD titles, but cannot purchase a BR player until they are between $150 and $200, and I think a lot of folks feel that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Flowerday /forum/post/12846886
Of course lower prices in hardware and software would help BR. Alot of people out there that can't justify the price of either in comparison to DVD.
You are correct about that. Most 'normal' people (given we aren't normal) can't tell the difference. I was just thinking that for the BR market, lowering the prices for one of the players may be all that SONY would need to bury HD DVD for good and move on. I am not buying any more HD DVD titles, but cannot purchase a BR player until they are between $150 and $200, and I think a lot of folks feel that way.
I am like you, got cheap refurbed A1 for $150 last August. Only have about 10 hd dvd movies and love them but basically I don't want to purchase more hd dvd movies because of the warner decision. Small investment small loss if hd dvd throws in the towel. Dual format players was my first thought but honestly they are too high and don't seem to work very well currently looking at that forum. Honestly I want a 2.0 blu player but those will be probably $500+ even later on this year and there is no use in buying one of the older models when they will not be fully compatible with the newer discs coming out. Like all I know blu has won but the technology will not reach main stream consumers for a long time with high prices and compatibility issues.
I would surely expec some really off name something to come out at some point.
It will be interesting to see how the player offerings start to pan out over the next year or so.
It will be interesting to see how the player offerings start to pan out over the next year or so.
If Sony, or another manufacturer can build a BR player and sell it at a lower cost, then I think we'd see many more people jumping on board. Most average consumers I've talked to really don't know the difference between HD DVD and BR. Because of the commercials and advertising, they think they have to purchase BR to get HD movies. But, they don't want to because of the cost, and don't really know HD DVD is/was an option. I can't tell you how many people at work told me the HD DVD player was just for upconversion.
Should be an interesting year.
Should be an interesting year.
If quality is to be compromised I would say no to a $150 player. I own an A2 and the build quality is not there. The picture quality is good though. Also the $150 hd player is not a correct price comparison. There are currently no plans for any CE to develop a 1080i blu player. Most current blu players offer analog, 24fps and all are 1080P. Yes useless to some folks but they are there and it adds cost. Right now you can find players between $330-399. So the 299 priced HD player is closer price comparison. And before somebody brings it up yes these are not 1.1 and 2.0 this is a reality. However right now Fry's is offering the 1.1 Panny 30 for 369 on sale of course but the price on players should be going down. Funai will be coming into play later this year and we will see how quickly they can start driving the price down. I agree with your point that yes it would take that card away from hd dvd if there would be a 150 blu player.
By the way change your Title to say BDA instead of Sony. Hopefully it will keep the arguments down...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybradley /forum/post/12846858
Currently, I have an HD DVD player, but have not been purchasing any new HD DVDs with the WB announcement. I was format neutral and said "The First technology to hit $150 will win me over". HD DVD did just that. I actually purchased mine for $90 from Circuit City during the big Walmart Sell. It was a no brainer to me. If HD DVD failed, I'd have an Upconverting Player that I needed for the theater anyway.
So, I'm back to square one. I won't purchase a BR player until the prices fall well below $200. More like $150 to be honest. I don't see this happening anytime soon giving the prices of the players today.
Would a decision from Sony to sell one a BR player for sub $200 be the nail in the coffin for HD DVD? Many still believe HD DVD has a chance, but I do not, even though I own one and love it. I'm thinking with the announcement of WB going BR exclusive, an inexpensive BR player is all SONY would need to drive this one home.
What do you think? (For those that will say cost isn't an issue on a better technology, etc. etc. Remember, there are enthusiasts like me who have other priorities and cannot justify $400-$500 for a new BR player. There are more people out there in this boat than those that believe cost isn't an issue)
If quality is to be compromised I would say no to a $150 player. I own an A2 and the build quality is not there. The picture quality is good though. Also the $150 hd player is not a correct price comparison. There are currently no plans for any CE to develop a 1080i blu player. Most current blu players offer analog, 24fps and all are 1080P. Yes useless to some folks but they are there and it adds cost. Right now you can find players between $330-399. So the 299 priced HD player is closer price comparison. And before somebody brings it up yes these are not 1.1 and 2.0 this is a reality. However right now Fry's is offering the 1.1 Panny 30 for 369 on sale of course but the price on players should be going down. Funai will be coming into play later this year and we will see how quickly they can start driving the price down. I agree with your point that yes it would take that card away from hd dvd if there would be a 150 blu player.
By the way change your Title to say BDA instead of Sony. Hopefully it will keep the arguments down...
There are way to many CE companies that support Blu-ray and Sony isn't going to piss them off just to subsidize a stand alone player. Granted hardware subsidization would help in terms of sales but there is no need for Sony to do something that drastic since given time Blu-ray will win this format war as is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybradley /forum/post/12846858
What do you think?
There are way to many CE companies that support Blu-ray and Sony isn't going to piss them off just to subsidize a stand alone player. Granted hardware subsidization would help in terms of sales but there is no need for Sony to do something that drastic since given time Blu-ray will win this format war as is.
I got my player for $150. Of course it's the gimped Samsung BD-P1200 and it was used, but at least it got me into the format. I can now start building up my collection instead of waiting a year or two.
Not if it's an even bigger mess than their existing players (which it would almost have to be to be 1/2-1/3 the price).
What the masses need is a player up to the quality standards of the Sharp and Panasonic players (perhaps with fewer whiz-bang features) in the low-price segment. Simply dropping the price of the S300 or introducing a stripped-down version of that model (if such a thing is even possible) won't get the job done, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybradley /forum/post/12846858
Would a decision from Sony to sell one a BR player for sub $200 be the nail in the coffin for HD DVD? Many still believe HD DVD has a chance, but I do not, even though I own one and love it. I'm thinking with the announcement of WB going BR exclusive, an inexpensive BR player is all SONY would need to drive this one home.
Not if it's an even bigger mess than their existing players (which it would almost have to be to be 1/2-1/3 the price).
What the masses need is a player up to the quality standards of the Sharp and Panasonic players (perhaps with fewer whiz-bang features) in the low-price segment. Simply dropping the price of the S300 or introducing a stripped-down version of that model (if such a thing is even possible) won't get the job done, IMO.
If making a 1080i player would allow for a cheaper entry level blu-ray player I am all for it. My TV can only do 1080i anyway so 1080p is wasted on me. MANY other people are in the same boat and got into HD because it's no longer cost prohibitive. The average consumer did not start buying HDTVs until they started to get cheap. It doesn't make sense to spend almost as much on a player as people have on their TV.
Also I don't understand how they can put a second video processor and internet access in a sub $200 HD-A2 but even the most expensive blu-ray players still cannot do both of these things. We have only just started to get profile 1.1 players. My guess is either extremely high licensing costs or price fixing. I hope this changes soon. I would really like HDM to take off so that we get more content.
Also, I don't know what you are talking about poor build quality. My HD-A2 has been perfect. Haven't had trouble playing a single disc. Combo or otherwise. Maybe I've just been lucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRMOTA /forum/post/12847389
If quality is to be compromised I would say no to a $150 player. I own an A2 and the build quality is not there. The picture quality is good though. Also the $150 hd player is not a correct price comparison. There are currently no plans for any CE to develop a 1080i blu player. Most current blu players offer analog, 24fps and all are 1080P. Yes useless to some folks but they are there and it adds cost. [cut]...
If making a 1080i player would allow for a cheaper entry level blu-ray player I am all for it. My TV can only do 1080i anyway so 1080p is wasted on me. MANY other people are in the same boat and got into HD because it's no longer cost prohibitive. The average consumer did not start buying HDTVs until they started to get cheap. It doesn't make sense to spend almost as much on a player as people have on their TV.
Also I don't understand how they can put a second video processor and internet access in a sub $200 HD-A2 but even the most expensive blu-ray players still cannot do both of these things. We have only just started to get profile 1.1 players. My guess is either extremely high licensing costs or price fixing. I hope this changes soon. I would really like HDM to take off so that we get more content.
Also, I don't know what you are talking about poor build quality. My HD-A2 has been perfect. Haven't had trouble playing a single disc. Combo or otherwise. Maybe I've just been lucky.
It won't be long until we see a BD player down to $150. That's my prediction.
But what Sony can do, and should be doing is making sure NetFix and BB online have enough disks!
But what Sony can do, and should be doing is making sure NetFix and BB online have enough disks!
I pointed all the things out you replied on in my original response. Like I said I don't believe they'll be anybody doing a 1080i player. I never said I had problems with my A2. I stand by that the picture quality as good. However the machine feels like a cheap 30 dollar walmart player. I haven't had the displeasure of using a combo and never will. I import the non combo versions since hd dvd affords everyone that luxury. I myself bought an open box slow as molasses S1 and I am happy as a clam with it. Like 1080i is wasted on you.. profiles 1.1 and 2.0 are a waste for me. Hell if they could come out with a cheap player that gives me all the hd audio formats, no analogs, load fast, play 1.1 and 2.0 disks without actually using those features I would be happy. Even better would be if they start releasing stripped down hdm versions and bell and whistle hdm versions. My guess is that stripped down versions would probably have less compatibility issues on older players.
If somebody can get a solid combo player going then that is where I am eventually heading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnmos /forum/post/12851888
If making a 1080i player would allow for a cheaper entry level blu-ray player I am all for it. My TV can only do 1080i anyway so 1080p is wasted on me. MANY other people are in the same boat and got into HD because it's no longer cost prohibitive. The average consumer did not start buying HDTVs until they started to get cheap. It doesn't make sense to spend almost as much on a player as people have on their TV.
Also I don't understand how they can put a second video processor and inter net access in a sub $200 HD-A2 but even the most expensive blu-ray players still cannot do both of these things. We have only just started to get profile 1.1 players. My guess is either extremely high licensing costs or price fixing. I hope this changes soon. I would really like HDM to take off so that we get more content.
Also, I don't know what you are talking about poor build quality. My HD-A2 has been perfect. Haven't had trouble playing a single disc. Combo or otherwise. Maybe I've just been lucky.
I pointed all the things out you replied on in my original response. Like I said I don't believe they'll be anybody doing a 1080i player. I never said I had problems with my A2. I stand by that the picture quality as good. However the machine feels like a cheap 30 dollar walmart player. I haven't had the displeasure of using a combo and never will. I import the non combo versions since hd dvd affords everyone that luxury. I myself bought an open box slow as molasses S1 and I am happy as a clam with it. Like 1080i is wasted on you.. profiles 1.1 and 2.0 are a waste for me. Hell if they could come out with a cheap player that gives me all the hd audio formats, no analogs, load fast, play 1.1 and 2.0 disks without actually using those features I would be happy. Even better would be if they start releasing stripped down hdm versions and bell and whistle hdm versions. My guess is that stripped down versions would probably have less compatibility issues on older players.
If somebody can get a solid combo player going then that is where I am eventually heading.
As long as Sony and the others keep their prices where they are, BR will be a niche market. Look at how many HD DVD players sold when Walmart had the massive sell. Had WB went HD DVD exclusive, and due to the number of units they sold, BR would be basically dead. Many of my friends, like me, are into this hobby, but refused to pay $400 for a player. Once the sell hit, we all bought one. Not only that, but family members who aren't even into this stuff bought one for Christmas.
My prediction is that until Sony and the others produce a quality, $150 player, BR will be a niche market and it will never go mainstreem. I understand they can't just drop the price for the sake of dropping the price due to losing money. I'm just saying until they do, we won't see average joe's purchasing them. I have nothing against SONY. I always said "whichever player hits the $150 mark first is the one I'll go with". I honestly thought that player would win the format war as well because consumers are more concerned with Bang for the Buck.
My prediction is that until Sony and the others produce a quality, $150 player, BR will be a niche market and it will never go mainstreem. I understand they can't just drop the price for the sake of dropping the price due to losing money. I'm just saying until they do, we won't see average joe's purchasing them. I have nothing against SONY. I always said "whichever player hits the $150 mark first is the one I'll go with". I honestly thought that player would win the format war as well because consumers are more concerned with Bang for the Buck.
I posted this originally in another thread, but I think it is appropriate here. It was in response to a statement along the lines of, well if hd-dvd is truly dead, we should see explosive growth in BD player sales now. The whole point of the BDA's strategy, which they have been very disciplined in following so far, and I doubt that they will abandon when they are on the brink of winning, is to let player prices adjust organically to the market.:
You really miss the point of the whole "growing the market" concept. It's not that once there is only one format, everyone is going to jump in. More of the early adopters who were waiting out the format war will jump in. That will increase player sales, which will in turn lower cost of production. That lowering of cost will bring an even greater number in and cost will fall yet again. It keeps going like that until momentum builds and a product becomes mainstream. Those of you looking for the sub $200.00 profile 2.0 BD player are going to have to wait a while. But it will get here. Just not as soon as you wish. It will get here when the market dictates.
You really miss the point of the whole "growing the market" concept. It's not that once there is only one format, everyone is going to jump in. More of the early adopters who were waiting out the format war will jump in. That will increase player sales, which will in turn lower cost of production. That lowering of cost will bring an even greater number in and cost will fall yet again. It keeps going like that until momentum builds and a product becomes mainstream. Those of you looking for the sub $200.00 profile 2.0 BD player are going to have to wait a while. But it will get here. Just not as soon as you wish. It will get here when the market dictates.
You don't have to be so arrogant by stating I miss the concept. I asked a simple question of what people thought. If I really understood the Market Concept, maybe I wouldn't have asked the question. I respect your opinion as it's what I wanted to hear. Just don't treat me like I'm an idiot. I have a Masters Degree from Johns Hopkins University. I may not be as well verse as you with "Market Concepts", which is why I asked the question.
Thanks for the response though, as it really DOES MAKE SENSE. You just ticked me off with how you did it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran O'Hern /forum/post/12855713
I posted this originally in another thread, but I think it is appropriate here. It was in response to a statement along the lines of, well if hd-dvd is truly dead, we should see explosive growth in BD player sales now. The whole point of the BDA's strategy, which they have been very disciplined in following so far, and I doubt that they will abandon when they are on the brink of winning, is to let player prices adjust organically to the market.:
You really miss the point of the whole "growing the market" concept. It's not that once there is only one format, everyone is going to jump in. More of the early adopters who were waiting out the format war will jump in. That will increase player sales, which will in turn lower cost of production. That lowering of cost will bring an even greater number in and cost will fall yet again. It keeps going like that until momentum builds and a product becomes mainstream. Those of you looking for the sub $200.00 profile 2.0 BD player are going to have to wait a while. But it will get here. Just not as soon as you wish. It will get here when the market dictates.
You don't have to be so arrogant by stating I miss the concept. I asked a simple question of what people thought. If I really understood the Market Concept, maybe I wouldn't have asked the question. I respect your opinion as it's what I wanted to hear. Just don't treat me like I'm an idiot. I have a Masters Degree from Johns Hopkins University. I may not be as well verse as you with "Market Concepts", which is why I asked the question.
Thanks for the response though, as it really DOES MAKE SENSE. You just ticked me off with how you did it.
Sorry. As I stated in my intro, that was just a repost from another thread. That part wasn't meant for you.
Geez, how much cheaper do BD players need to be?
The mass adoption of DVD players started when they were $300; I would never buy a $100 player of any format - DVD, BD, etc. Why pay $100 for a piece of junk, which any player in that price range would have to be just to be cost reduced to that point?
Hint: "Quality $150 BD player" Sorry, that's a dichotomy.
If you want to know what will really continue to hold BD back, it's having to update the firmware every six weeks. I know lots of people who would enjoy a BD player but I would never subject friends and family to having to do that.
The mass adoption of DVD players started when they were $300; I would never buy a $100 player of any format - DVD, BD, etc. Why pay $100 for a piece of junk, which any player in that price range would have to be just to be cost reduced to that point?
Hint: "Quality $150 BD player" Sorry, that's a dichotomy.
If you want to know what will really continue to hold BD back, it's having to update the firmware every six weeks. I know lots of people who would enjoy a BD player but I would never subject friends and family to having to do that.
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