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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would think that they would be far more accurate and have far deeper bass than their specs reveal. You never get to see them except for the surrounds because the all the front speakers are hidden behind the screen.

Anyway, I wasn't too impressed with these Movie Theater Speakers for instance.
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/kpt-435-n.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/kpt-884.aspx


Out of the last 5 theaters I've been to only, one had better sound than my cheap $800 sound system which only has a frequency response of 23-20,000 hz +/- 3db.

I guess many movie theater speakers give up on deep bass and accuracy in favor of the ability to play louder.
 

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Huh???


That speaker you referenced has a sensitivity of 104dB and power handling capability of 900W. That's an SPL of 134 dB at 1m. And the sub can put out 129dB continuous output, or 122dB if you want to equalize for a -3dB point at 18Hz. Can your $800 system put out anything close to those SPLs? I didn't think so.


There's a lot more to accuracy than some manufacturer's published -3dB points. Dynamic range, harmonic distortion (especially at higher SPLs), etc., etc. You can't tell how those Klipsch speakers sound from reading a cut sheet.


But I do agree that many theaters have mediocre to poor audio systems.
 

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It isn't easy to fill that big room full of sound.


And what $800 system do you have? I doubt it's really getting down to 23Hz like you claim.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Read the specs again, the -3db point is 27hz and the -10dp point is 18 hz.
http://www.klipsch.com/media/product...KPT-884-SW.pdf

Even my cheap Athena AS-P4000 has a -3db point of 23hz.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ephemere /forum/post/0


Huh???


That speaker you referenced has a sensitivity of 104dB and power handling capability of 900W. That's an SPL of 134 dB at 1m. And the sub can put out 129dB continuous output, or 122dB if you want to equalize for a -3dB point at 18Hz. Can your $800 system put out anything close to those SPLs? I didn't think so.


There's a lot more to accuracy than some manufacturer's published -3dB points. Dynamic range, harmonic distortion (especially at higher SPLs), etc., etc. You can't tell how those Klipsch speakers sound from reading a cut sheet.


But I do agree that many theaters have mediocre to poor audio systems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by emorphien /forum/post/0


It isn't easy to fill that big room full of sound.


And what $800 system do you have? I doubt it's really getting down to 23Hz like you claim.

I certainly am, I used an SPL meter and frequency test tons to see, and it seemed more like 0 [email protected] 23 hz in my room than -3db @ 23hz.

My system is in my photo gallery. Just click on my name for a drop down menu that can take you to my gallery.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack White /forum/post/0


Read the specs again, the -3db point is 27hz and the -10dp point is 18 hz.

Even my cheap Athena AS-P4000 has a -3db point of 23hz.

I read the specs correctly. It can produce 129dB, which means you can equalize the -10dB to -3dB at 18HZ and get 122dB output. Your cheap Athena probably produces no more than 100dB at 23Hz and has terrible harmonic distortion. You're not seeing the big picture.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack White /forum/post/0


I certainly am, I used an SPL meter and frequency test tons to see, and it seemed more like 0 [email protected] 23 hz in my room than -3db @ 23hz.

My system is in my photo gallery. Just click on my name for a drop down menu that can take you to my gallery.

Yet another mistake. You're measuring in-room response where you're getting bass reinforcement from the room. Manufacturer specs are typically of the anechoic response.
 

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are you here to cure the general public of bad audio equipment? first it was classrooms and now it is the movie theater. do you really need a good speaker setup for the classroom, i mean after all you are there to learn. and unless it is obstructive to learning then i dont see anything wrong with them. It costs about $9 a tix for a movie, another $10 bucks for popcorn and the audio system in there is good enough for 99% of the viewers. I dont see any motivation for the theaters to change what they have. If this is a crusade you are on then im sure there is a complaint box somewhere or are these just your astute observations?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If I'm paying $20 for a lousy movie, I'm expecting at least 16hz-20,000 +/-1.5db which isn't unreasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sn_85 /forum/post/0


are you here to cure the general public of bad audio equipment? first it was classrooms and now it is the movie theater. do you really need a good speaker setup for the classroom, i mean after all you are there to learn. and unless it is obstructive to learning then i dont see anything wrong with them. It costs about $9 a tix for a movie, another $10 bucks for popcorn and the audio system in there is good enough for 99% of the viewers. I dont see any motivation for the theaters to change what they have. If this is a crusade you are on then im sure there is a complaint box somewhere or are these just your astute observations?
 

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As a mobile DJ I know that some pro equipment is designed to move mass amounts of air. In a large theater the ultimate frequency response range may not be the paramount objective.


I'm not a big fan of the theater anymore, I would rather enjoy movies in the comfort of my own home. I agree with sn_85 there's not a lot of motivation for the theaters to change if people keep filling the seats.
 

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I was reading EAW's theater speaker spec's recently and I noticed they recommend a steep high-pass filter on the sub at 20hz. I checked JBL's and their suggestion is pretty similar so I don't think any theater is delivering anything below 20hz. Besides the fact that JBL's biggest (dual 18's) is -10 at 22hz, I assume they just don't see the benefit of the added cost to extend any lower for movies. I think there are a lot of great sounding theaters along with the crappy one's but judging from the top-end equipment, that is all that is required for great cinema sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dthree /forum/post/0


I was reading EAW's theater speaker spec's recently and I noticed they recommend a steep high-pass filter on the sub at 20hz. I checked JBL's and their suggestion is pretty similar so I don't think any theater is delivering anything below 20hz. Besides the fact that JBL's biggest (dual 18's) is -10 at 22hz, I assume they just don't see the benefit of the added cost to extend any lower for movies. I think there are a lot of great sounding theaters along with the crappy one's but judging from the top-end equipment, that is all that is required for great cinema sound.

I would expect theaters to use something along the line of dozens of Bag End Infrasub 18s to get usable bass down to around 8hz or so since their main weakness is low SPL.

I mean if you're going to shell out 20-100 bucks you should get something for it.
 

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LOL, you have very high standards! I would expect that ticket prices would be pretty high for such a theater.

Quote:
I mean if you're going to shell out 20-100 bucks you should get something for it.

Funny how one might view this statment in a very different way if they were young...or single.
 

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The Empire Strikes Back with 56KW of THX JBL sound power!




Front view of the Empire back in 1989 a THX JBL installation


Side view of the THX JBL installation JBL 8330 around x22 where fitted in the old THX JBL specification


Another view of the THX JBL installation, you can just see the JBL 8330 on the rear wall, underneath the projection booth area


The new Empire THX JBL screen array with an impressive sub bass array that extends 13 feet in width and 8 feet in height, yeah try that at home! The Sub bass array kicks out an unheard 20KW which is more than most!


The new THX JBL 8340 surround array is a staggering number of x42, where the original only consisted of around x22, I can only imagine this meeting my expectations now ten fold.


The new and improved ultimate rack system that we can only dream about modified Dolby CP-200 Dolby SR type dts, SDDS 8 for cracking films like U-571 which has to be herd in SDDS 8 via the JBL THX sound system! Crown amplification


5x DBX4800 24bit/96Khz Loudspeaker Management Systems with HiQNET Control. Digital Feed from CP650, Analogue Feed from CP200/SDDS.


5x JBL Custom Screen Array each fed by 1x Crown CTs2000 and 1x Crown CTs3000 Amplifiers


16x JBL 4645C Sub Bass fed by 8x Crown CTs 3000 Amplifiers


42x JBL 8340A Surround Loudspeakers individually driven and time-aligned from 6x Crown CTs8200 8-Channel Amplifiers


Total System Power 56kW
 

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You do realize that if you DO push crazy subs in a theatre and you're watching action flick #7 of the summer, the people in the theatre next to it watching the notebook 17, revenge of the emo will be a bit annoyed at feeling your movie while watching theirs. Perhaps they don't really want the floor shaking quite as much as you do at home, given the proximity of the next movie going crowd.


Just my thought on that.
 
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There is MUCH more to good sound than rattling and booming subwoofers. Such as clarity and presence in the midrange and the ability to do natural, lifelike vocal reproduction.


Not that you can convince the immature of it; the folks who won't watch Citizen Kane because it doesn't have car crashes or Orson Welles outrunning a fireball with 7 channels of bombastic surround sound.
 

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After all is said about theater sound, I have never been in a theater I thought sounded as good as my Rotel, Paradigm Monitor, M&K sub system does at home. I don't jack the bass to unrealistic levels or make sure the neighbors can hear me. Most people...my friends included think the average theater sounds great. I know what high quality audio is supposed to sound like, so while I do enjoy going to the theater, I can't wait to rent the latest DVD and watch it at home on my 55" HD-ILA JVC.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack White /forum/post/0


If I'm paying $20 for a lousy movie, I'm expecting at least 16hz-20,000 +/-1.5db which isn't unreasonable.

Jack


It is very unlikely that you are ever going to get your wish, unless you view a movie in one of the most specialized and acoustically isolated theaters out there.


Unless you live in an apartment and you are competing with the sound system of your neighbor, when you view a movie at your home, you only have to deal with the soundtrack of one movie feature in a very controlled environment. Most theater complexes have to accommodate various shows to maximize viewing and minimize interference with the sound from the film showing in the next theater. That means that rather than having to stagger their showings all over the place, they will greatly reduce both the sound level and dynamic level settings of movies with lots of sound effects so that they do not interfere with the sound in the adjacent theater. In these days, if you can listen to a movie at a theater that is at least at 65% of reference level without some little old lady complaining that it is way too loud, you are doing good. There are few and far between theaters out there where you can enjoy the sound of a movie the way that the directors intended it like you would at home from your DVD and HT system. For the most part, the sound system itself are pretty darn good. The 435N Klipsch behind the screen commercial speaker that you linked is intended for small to medium venues. Very nice part of a set, specially when you mate it to a couple of their theater subs.
 

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Interestingly most of my recent movie theater experiences in the last few years have been with deafening systems - I can't recall once wishing they would turn it up but usually I wish they would turn it down.
 
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