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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm really struggling to see what the difference is between x.264 vs h.264 in terms of HD (720P or even 1080P) mkv movies and/or films? What is the preferred format in terms of video/audio quality?


Also does this sounds about right for rips which do NOT show any obivous quality loss (based upon my research so far):


6.00GB mkv @720P = 2hr @ 9.5mbit average video bitrate. 6mbit average video bitrate is sufficient.

13.5GB mkv @1080P = 2hr @ 14.5mbit average video bitrate. 8-12mbit average video bitrate is sufficient.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Perfect explanation
. Any reason why Newzbin (Usenet), has seperate searches for either x.264 or h.264?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Also, does this mean that x.264 is the answer to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD compression that divx is to DVD?


Or is the above quite incorrect and x.264 (being one of the three BD codecs) is also used when ripping a Blu-Ray onto a HDD, except the resolution of bitrate is lowered to fit within a .mkv container?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EViS /forum/post/13822252


Also, does this mean that x.264 is the answer to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD compression that divx is to DVD?

Did you look at the wiki table iootnega linked to?


x264 is an open source implementation of H.264 (AVC). Period.

x264 can be used to create BD compliant encodes.


DVD is MPEG-2 and DivX/XviD is MPEG-4 part 2.


MKV's on torrent sites are x264 re-encodes of ~30GB+ movies into SL/DL DVDs (~4-7 times smaller).


Diogen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry, I (carelessly) wrote that prior to doing some more research/thinking. The way I understand it now is as follows;


- h.264 is the codec.

- x264 is the open source program (library) used to encode Bluray or any other video format into the h.264 format, ready for packaging into the desired container (eg. mkv).


Have I now understood it all correctly? Or is the Bluray encoded into a x264 format (by the x264 library) which is based on h.264? So the actual PC codec is x264 and not h.264?


I'm so embarrased by the immense confusion
!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EViS /forum/post/13822874


Sorry, I (carelessly) wrote that prior to doing some more research/thinking. The way I understand it now is as follows;


- h.264 is the codec.

Yes, it's a codec specification, like MPEG-2.

Quote:
- x264 is the open source program (library) used to encode Bluray or any other video format into the h.264 format, ready for packaging into the desired container (eg. mkv).

Yes, x264 is an open source encoder implementation of the h.264 codec/standard. Much like Nero or TSMpgEnc are encoder implementations of MPEG-2.

Quote:
Have I now understood it all correctly? Or is the Bluray encoded into a x264 format (by the x264 library) which is based on h.264?

The actual encoder used on Blu-ray is probably from Panasonic, or maybe Sonic (not 100% sure) it's absolutely not x264.

Quote:
So the actual PC codec is x264 and not h.264?

x264 is an h.264 encoder. If you're playing them back, you're using an H.264 decoder, Cyberlink, Nero, ffdshow, CoreAVC, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Finally, I've got my head around it
! Thank you all very much!


In case anyone else every struggles with this (and looking back now, I'm not sure where I got so confused), here are the facts:


a) x264 is an encoder only & encodes video into the h.264 standard.

b) h.264 is a standard the same way MPEG-2/3/4 is.

c) x264 encoded video can then be watched using a h.264 decoder such as CoreAVC.
 

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Came across this thread while googling - I thought I understood the relation between x.264 and H.264 as that has been discussed here. However, this (p)review seems to indicate that x.264 might be a different standard and not the software library implementation of h.264? Or am i missing something?


Would appreciate any clarification.


-Topper
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by topperdude /forum/post/15985469


Came across this thread while googling - I thought I understood the relation between x.264 and H.264 as that has been discussed here. However, this (p)review ...

That article says

Quote:
Example: enormously popular these days for example is x.264 (not to confuse with h.264 itself). It is also known under Matroska MKV and this is the kind of movie playback where you'd run intro restrictions as they are not supported (accelerated) over the graphics processor. It's really no different for high bitrate high-definition XVID and DIVX content either. Atom would not be able to handle it in 1080P or often even 720P, so immediately you'd run into restrictions if the media-file is not DXVA or bit-stream GPU accelerated. On an Atom platform this is your biggest problem.

topperdude you should only be concerned if you are NOT confused by the muddled mess at guru3d!!!



If you really seek clarification, you need to contact the author, though I think I wouldn't bother!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EViS /forum/post/13823210


Finally, I've got my head around it
! Thank you all very much!


In case anyone else every struggles with this (and looking back now, I'm not sure where I got so confused), here are the facts:


a) x264 is an encoder only & encodes video into the h.264 standard.

Yep - though AIUI the x264 encoder may be able to encode h.264 video in non-standard "profiles"?

Quote:
b) h.264 is a standard the same way MPEG-2/3/4 is.

h.264 is an extension of MPEG-4 - it is also known as AVC or MPEG4 part 10 I believe. MPEG-4 isn't a single codec - it is a family of codecs and a container standard.


MPEG-2 is a slightly ambiguous description as MPEG-2 can describe an MPEG-2 programme stream - which is effectively video compressed using the MPEG-2 codec. However MPEG-2 can also describe an MPEG-2 transport stream - which could contain video encoded in H264. (This is common on satellite TV broadcasts - and I believe the m2ts standard used for Blu-ray is effectively an MPEG-2 transport stream that can contain MPEG2, H264 or VC-1 video streams?)


BTW - MPEG-3 doesn't exist. Originally MPEG2 was the improved SD codec and MPEG3 was going to be the HD codec. However it became clear that a single family could do both, so MPEG2 covered the areas that were originally planned for MPEG2 and MPEG3 AIUI?


It is all a bit confusing - because some standards - like MPEG2 and MPEG4 - can include both codecs AND containers - whilst others (like mkv) are standards for containers only.

Quote:
c) x264 encoded video can then be watched using a h.264 decoder such as CoreAVC.

Yes - though x264 encodes can use non-standard profiles (or standard compliant but inappropriate profiles), and these may not replay correctly on all h.264 decoders (which may only be compatible with some profiles). This is why some x264 encodes don't replay properly on some hardware h.264-compatible players.
 

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great thread, and I also have a question:


I'm looking to buy the Western Digital WD TV HD Media Player , and under files supported it states: AVI (MPEG4, Xvid, AVC), H.264, MKV, MOV (MPEG4, H.264)


does this mean it will also play X.264?


from the gathered reading from you guys, it should right? because x.264 is basically an extension of h.264?




just want to know before I buy this item. Thanks guys.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneals2000 /forum/post/15986050


Yes - though x264 encodes can use non-standard profiles (or standard compliant but inappropriate profiles), and these may not replay correctly on all h.264 decoders (which may only be compatible with some profiles). This is why some x264 encodes don't replay properly on some hardware h.264-compatible players.

...just saw this response..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackinhedz /forum/post/16293709


from the gathered reading from you guys, it should right? because x.264 is basically an extension of h.264?

Just to be completely clear, x264 is not an "extension" of H.264, x264 is an implementation of an H.264 encoder, it implements a very wide range of H.264 encoding options.


Additionally, H.264 has almost unlimited encoding possibilities, but most H.264 decoders, especially those implemented in hardware, only implement certain subsets, or "profiles" and "levels" of H.264 options.


So yes, anything that will play H.264 will be able to play video encoded by the x264 encoder, but they will probably only be able to decode a subset of what x264 could create. Thus if you make sure not to go beyond the supported profiles when you encode things with x264 you'll be fine.
 

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RE: Samsung Plasma PN60E6500



Great thread guys!



I have just purchased a MAGNIFICENT Samsung 2012 Plasma- LOVE it!


So far (one month owning the rig) I've tested numerous MKV formatted movie files of various bitrates, FPS - all 1080p though. By and far, every movie I've attempted to play on the Samsung TV (PN60E6500 btw) has played flawlessly. All but 2 files.


I've researched and thus far am unable to explain my video playback issues with these 2 files. Both of these "problem" files are as follows:


14GB (1st movie), 15GB file size (2nd movie)

Video Bitrates: 12.8Mbps (1st movie), 14Mbps (2nd movie)

1080p for both

Audio codec: 1.5Mbps DTS Core (1st movie), 1.5Mbps DTS ES (2nd movie)

FPS: can't remember exactly.. prob between 24-30fps (both)


My question is as follows:


The above two files are the only ones I've had any sort of video playback issues with. In movie #1, this movie did not even begin playback. I copied this file onto a USB thumb drive, inserted directly into my TV's USB port for playback. Upon loading this movie, the "loading" indicator came on-screen for a long while (relative to the rest of the files I've tested... almost 10 seconds I would say). After the "loading" message, the TV never began playback, but, rather, turned itself off, then the Tv powered itself back on again - all on its own!


Tried to launch this movie twice, same exact result


Movie #2:

This movie, again, played off a USB thumb drive plugged into the USB port, DID begin video and audio playback. The problem with this file is that the STOP button my tv's remote was frozen! Meaning completely unresponsive - I could not choose to STOP playback when I wanted to. Ironically, the FF, RW and Pause buttons all worked! Furthermore, I let this movie play through to the end with success. After the movie finished and the end credits done rolling, I was expecting my plasma tv to simply stop playback and return me to the USB drive's sub folder menu whereby I can launch another movie. This did NOT happen. When the movie finished playback, the "Loading" indicator came onscreen (this time for only about 5 seconds)... then the TV shut itself off and powered back on again as per the movie file #1 in question.



I have been actively trying to find out the reason for these playback errors when I have come to the conclusion that it's probably a Video specification/compatilibity issue. I inquired into the Audio codec side of things and I've gathered that both DTS and DTS ES are playable with just a standard DTS Core processing ability. So audio is ruled out.


On the video end, every OTHER movie I've tried to play on my TV has played perfectly (and many of these videos that succeeded were in the same bitrate/FPS/resolution vicinity as the two problem files. All these movies were ~8Mbps-15Mbps video bitrate, all 1.5Mbps audio in DTS, all 8GB-15GB in file size and all 1080p, and believe these movies have FPS in the same general region.


So what is REALLY the issue? Upon looking up these two files, curiously, I found that only these two files that crashed my TV had Video encoding specifications denoted as:


x264, CBR, L4.1


Seems the other files that were OK did not have such detailed specs listed. They only listed more general specs - video / audio bitrate, resolution and FPS. They didn't specifically list the 3 above encoding specs.



I looked under my User's Guide and it lists clearly, different compatible video container formats with its maximum bitrate allowed, etc. From memory, I think the user's guide said this tv supports up to H.264 L4.1. Is this any indication?


Are there certain coding specs that differ from file to file even though they're all very similar in file size, bitrate, etc. that would have caused my tv to crash in the aforementioned examples?


What else could be the issue?
 

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This should be posted in the display forums but I do have one question..


Does the TV decode dts? This may be more of the problem then decoding h.264.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2  /t/1027256/x-264-vs-h-264-so-whats-the-difference#post_23108000


This should be posted in the display forums but I do have one question..


Does the TV decode dts? This may be more of the problem then decoding h.264.

Sammy,


Thanks for getting back to me.


Yes, the TV is DTS core certified (not sure if it supports other DTS extensions natively - don't remember other DTS designations). The Surround Sound (Pioneer) I use with it also decodes DTS core (older system around 2004).


Would the TV itself decode the DTS standard or would the Pioneer surround? Again, a USB stick with the movie is inserted in the TV's USB.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2  /t/1027256/x-264-vs-h-264-so-whats-the-difference#post_23108000


This should be posted in the display forums but I do have one question..


Does the TV decode dts? This may be more of the problem then decoding h.264.

Update - my PN60E6500 supports:


Audio


Dolby® Digital Plus / Dolby® Pulse

SRS TheaterSound HD™

Dts 2.0 + Digital Out available

10 W x 2 Sound Output (RMS)

Down Firing + Full Range

Auto Volume Leveler available
 

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Download MediaInfo.

Insert the USB stick into your PC.

Navigate to the file in question.

Right click on the file and select MediaInfo.

Report back the codecs of the file.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2  /t/1027256/x-264-vs-h-264-so-whats-the-difference#post_23108512


Download MediaInfo.

Insert the USB stick into your PC.

Navigate to the file in question.

Right click on the file and select MediaInfo.

Report back the codecs of the file.

Will do tonite.. back w report tomorrow. Thanks for the help so far!
 
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