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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've had my X1 for about 1 month now and just love it. However, when watching football with Dishnet standard def. with S-video connection the wide shots of the field and teams during actual play appear "fuzzy" and seem to lack contrast. When they cut to player close-ups, sideline shots, the commentators, cheerleaders etc. the image is beautiful.


I was wondering if anybody else experienced this effect and had any advice on fixing it. I have tried different calibration settings, lighting levels etc. It seems as though when most of the picture just the green grass and relatively small players it almost "de-focuses" . Unfortunately, every play starts out with this type of camera shot.


Hopefully a HDTV singal with eliminate this , but thats not in the budget until next season.


BTW the X1 is ceiling mounted with a Dalite Video Spectra 1.5 60 x 80 screen. Complete light control. Also, I have a 50ft s-video cable from the A/v receiver to the X1. although all other SDTV looks pretty good with the same cable , I will be switching to a 35 foot cable. soon.
 

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There's nothing you can do about it; the problem is due to excessive compression from DISH. I have noticed that the Sunday night ESPN game is noticeably sharper than other games, BTW. I suspect that it's because it's the only game on at that time, so DISH can devote more bandwidth to it without signal competition from other NFL telecasts.


Keep in mind that the signal DISH sends out has a specific bandwidth, which is dynamically allocated across all the channels. If there are a bunch of sporting events going on at the same time (which generally require a lot of bandwidth), they're fighting for a limited resource, so the picture on all of them will suffer. If there's only one game going on with a bunch of low-action stuff on most of the other channels, DISH can allocate more bandwidth to the game.
 

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PJB is right, I have the same setup as fishhead65 and the same problem. Dish launched "EchoStar IX" a new satellite on August 7, 2003. According to a buddy of mine in the industry, he said that this sat would help by increasing the bandwidth available for channels. I haven't notice any difference yet though. When I signed up for sat service I believed it was going to be vastly superior to cable, and while the digital sound is, the picture isn't. It looks OK on a 43" TV but is awful on a 100" pj screen.


Mark
 

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Of course, very few games are in HD. Monday Night Football (MNF) is HD as is at least one Sunday game. I tune in Over The Air (OTA) and the picture is absolutely stunning!

Check the HD Programming forum for HD football discussions.
 

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I have comcast and the X1 with the same identical problem...i am just as frustrated, would love to hear a solution other than HDTV....
 

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Same problem here with directtv, and like you guys, the sunday night espn game was much cleaner.

That being said, I dont think the problem is with the compression. If that was the case, then why are close-ups crystal clear, but overhead shots fuzzy? If it was a compression problem, all the shots would look bad.

If anyone has any other ideas, would love to hear them. Thanks
 

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Just finished my X1 demo. I have DirecTV and also have the same problem. Football seems to be worse than most other shows. Baseball didn't look bad at all. Hi Def OTA Monday Night Football was awesome. Football is the reason for Hi-Def!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dtviewer
Same problem here with directtv, and like you guys, the sunday night espn game was much cleaner.

That being said, I dont think the problem is with the compression. If that was the case, then why are close-ups crystal clear, but overhead shots fuzzy? If it was a compression problem, all the shots would look bad.

If anyone has any other ideas, would love to hear them. Thanks
Closeups are usually much easier to compress because there is not much action and big sections of the screen are similar in color, etc. Overhead shots, especially if the camera is panning, have much more action and detail which is much harder to compress.


Monday Night Football OTA HDTV broadcasts look amazing with my X1. So this thread isn't really about the "X1 and football," it is about lousy compression by your cable or satellite company.
 

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I say it's the line doubler. A head to head vs my interlaced tv and my tv wins every time for sharpness and clarity for sports. Even when I shrunk the X1 to the almost the same screen size as the tv set, the same problem was evident. Makes we wonder what a bad line doubler would look like for sports!

Movies, tv shows, etc, all look decent still as detail is lower and less movement.
 

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Mo-Tiger, does your Comcast have HD channels in your area?


I have Comcast with HD and the pics (including football games) are amazing on my X1. I found myself going to the X1 more and more for HD channels. If Comcast have HD in your area, I strongly recommended that you give it a try.


In the Phila/Southern NJ area Comcast has 8 free and 2 pay HD channels; Free: Comcast Sportnet, ESPN-HD, INHD1 & 2, ABC-HD, NBC-HD, PBS-HD and Fox-WS(Not HD but close enough); Pay: HBO and Showtime-HD. I'm in HD heaven.


I was close to do the OTA route until Comcast come up with all these HD channels in a relatively short period of time. Lower $$$ up front cost was also a plus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So it sounds like the only solution right now is to go HDTV. Unfortunately with Dish the receiver is $500+, need to install a new Super Dish $299?, and then pay the additional monthly fee. Time Warner cable offers HDTV here in the NYC burbs, might have to switch to cable. Haven't thought too much about OTA HDTV, but living 65 miles NW of NYC not sure what kind of antenna I would need. Definately don't want some monster up there or if I can even get anything at 65 miles.


I will contact Dish to see if the new sat Echostar IX is "on-line" and if could posibly help. Thanks for the replys
 

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It's not the X1....it's the compression and the size of the picture. The bigger the picture, the more you see the compression artifacts and the fuzziness. In fact, the X1, with DCDi processor, does a better job than many pjs of showing standard def material from Dish or Direct. Highly compressed action material (like football) looks bad the minute you start trying to blow it up in size. So standard def football from dish or direct looks bad on most projectors--including my X1 and my Z1 (looks better on the X1). Even my 61" Sony RPTV looks fuzzy and crappy with standard def football from satelllite. However, as stated before, HD football looks gorgeous on the X1 and the Z1.


mike
 

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I'm still a little confused here. So different compression is used on different shots during the same game? Pans from above the field look like crap, but close ups are clean. Why is this? Would a better deinterlacer than the one built into my proj. help somewhat? Thanks By the way, Im using a 10ht and a z1.
 

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Flooper, So you have both, and the X1 looks better for SD football. How about HD football? DVDs? HD Movies? Do you use an anamorphic lens for the X1? I know, a little off subject, but it is just so good to be able to query someone who has both about the different environments. Since I'll have to stick to only having 1 PJ, it would be good to know which PJ you like better in each environment.

Thanks, Greg
 

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Miketc, did Comcast force you to go to digital cable to get the box and HD channels, or can you add HD on to standard cable service? I have no use at all for the digital cable stuff, but I would really like the HD channels.


Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
DishNet's EchoStar IX: Looks like it may not be on-line yet. Also, broadband internet may be a major part of it.


By Roger Fillion, Rocky Mountain News

August 9, 2003


EchoStar Communications is betting its latest satellite to soar into space will allow the company to break into the high-speed Internet communications business.


The Littleton satellite-TV company also is banking on the satellite to allow it to better compete with cable-TV operators, which already have been busy dishing out video and broadband Internet communications.






The satellite was carried aloft Thursday night from a floating launch pad in the Pacific Ocean, near the equator. It's the ninth in EchoStar's fleet.


Cable companies have been aggressively rolling out broadband Internet access, on top of providing dozens of TV channels to subscribers.


For its part, EchoStar has been beaming digital satellite TV to 8.5 million Dish Network customers. But it hasn't had the capability to deliver speedy Internet access.


"They've had no ability to do the double play," said analyst Bruce Leichtman of Leichtman Research Group in Durham, N.H. "It's like a shortstop without a second baseman."


The EchoStar IX satellite is meant to change that.


The spacecraft is equipped to be the first to operate over the United States in the high-speed Ka-band frequency, from where it can provide broadband communications.


The satellite, which will orbit at 22,300 miles, also will be able to beam hundreds of digital TV channels, just like EchoStar's existing eight spacecraft.


The new satellite is expected to become operational within about 45 days, although it won't necessarily begin commercial service just then.


EchoStar spokesman Steve Caulk couldn't say when exactly the satellite could begin delivering broadband communications on a commercial basis. "We should have more information in about 45 days," he said.


EchoStar has a ways to go in order to catch rivals in the high- speed Internet business.


According to Leichtman, top cable operators served 13.2 million broadband customers at the end of the second quarter. The top telephone companies that provide high-speed DSL service accounted for 7.4 million subscribers.


To expand its reach, EchoStar has been striking alliances with phone companies that peddle DSL. Last month, for example, Denver-based Qwest Communications said it would market EchoStar satellite-TV services in Colorado and Nebraska beginning early this month, with more markets likely to follow.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dtviewer
I'm still a little confused here. So different compression is used on different shots during the same game? Pans from above the field look like crap, but close ups are clean. Why is this?
The same compression algorythms are applied it's the different individual frames/scenes that compress differently. Like simmike was saying closeup's tend to have large percentages of the screen with much of the same colour grouped in the same general area of the screen. From frame to frame pixels don't change as often. Overhead shots/panning shots in a sporting event will have many different colours and many of the pixels change from frame to frame.


Similar to compressing data files with zip or whatever. Take two files, identical in size, the first filled with a bunch of the same character the other filled with many different random characters. The first file will compress much better.


Tom
 

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Samurai Jack,


I didn't look into getting HD without digital package because I like the digital channels Comcast is offering with their basic package. I think their basic digital package is a great deal. For $10, I got about 80 digital channels (10 of them second run movie channels, Sundance, Stars etc.), numerous free On-Demand shows/news and 40 music channels. The $10 does not include the STB rental which you would need for Comcast HD anyway. $15 extra a month to receive HD and digital is far less than OTA or Sat's up front equipment cost.


I have also heard that InHD 1 & 2 are not available without digital package which to me is an add on bonus.
 

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Football looks great in HDTV. I think some games which are broadcast in HDTV look better even on SDTV is the cameras they use. The wide angle lenses they use for HDTV are better, so even though you may view them in SDTV, they will look a bit better.

I'm sure the compression doesn't help, but programs recorded in HDTV generally look better than those not, even when viewed in SDTV.
 
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