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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Infocus X1/4800 (Unofficial X1's FAQs)


In Native mode, having FW higher than 3.6, I'll have a correct 4:3 aspect ratio and a resolution of 640x480. Is it right?


If so, what resolution will I have with a PAL 4:3 (576i) source?


Thanks for your help


Rob
 

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Native is 800x600. The number of mirrors doesn't change based upon where you live. Are your computer monitors any different? The difference between ntsc and pal is in broadcast and dvd encoding. Ntsc has a lower resolution, but more frames per second. Pal has a higher resolution, but less frames per second. They both end up being the same number, though, so it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference.

JJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm talking about "Native mode" and not "Native resolution"... that is obviously always 800x600.

With NTSC source, X1 uses 640x450 (not 480, sorry!) of its 800x600 mirrors. I'm wondering if with PAL sources the result is the same.


Rob
 

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Oh...

Ooops...

Well, technically, 4:3 for 576 horizontal lines would have to be 768 verticle lines, but I doubt your tv signal is 768x576. I know pal dvd's are 720x576.

I don't really think I'm understanding your question. If you hook a tv tuner (computer, vcr, cable box, etc...) to the x1 and run it in full screen, the x1 will scale to use as many pixels as possible.

I think what you're meaning is "if I am feeding a 640x480 source (computer) to the x1 and set the x1 for native instead of 4:3 or 16:9, will the display actually be only using those 640x480 mirrors and not the 800x600 mirrors, thus resulting in black borders around all four sides of the image". Is this correct?

JJ
 

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I was wondering the same thing. I'm a projector noob (4 hours on lamp) but here are my findings.


I see from the FAQ that "Native Mode" for NTSC was changed in firmware 3.6 to be slightly cropped to fit in the same hight as an NTSC 16:9 picture.


So if you have a 16:9 screen you use "16:9" setting for widscreen signal and if use "Native Mode" for 4:3. This will display the 4:3 image in the middle of the 16:9 screen. (top and bottom of 800x600 never used)


It doesn't appear to be the same for PAL. The "Native Mode" is much taller than the 16:9. (at least on my IBM clone on firm 3.8) I assume this is 576ish and is not scaled, I haven't looked that closely.


It would be great if a firmware update would give PAL users the same feature as NTSC. This would require the PAL 4:3 to be scalled down to 450 high to fit in the 16:9 frame.


I realise that "native mode" is designed for a computer input but if there is a special case for NTSC resolution why not for PAL.


Cheers
 

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What input connector are you using during this "4:3 on a 16:9 screen" mode switch? Also, have you actually tried it, yet? I would think that native mode would use all 800x600 for 4:3, given that's "native" to the projector. I could be wrong, you'd just have to try it to really tell. I use my computer for watching tv, so it upconverts the 525 horizontal lines for ntsc to 720 for my output.

I think I see what you're getting at, though. Since I have my htpc set for at 16:9 resolution, I have to use the 16:9 mode, or it's vertically stretched. On the other hand, when I run 800x453 (technut) I set the projector in 4:3 or native mode, even though it's a 16:9 feed the projector sees it as 800x600. I think the determining factor is going to be whether the projector interprets your feed as 16:9 or 4:3. I could be wrong, though. This is a little confusing.

JJ
 

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"Native Mode" displays whatever signal you are giving it without modifing it. I have a 16x9 screen so I use it for watching cable tv (480i). If I'm feeding the projector an 1080i (hdtv) signal and I put it on "native" it shows just the top left part of the image really blown up and takes up the image area as if I had it in 4x3 mode (unless I'm remembering wrong). This is why if you plan on hooking a PC up to the X1 (for general pc use, not just as htpc) you need to have a 4x3 screen or else you'd have to have your PC resolution set really low to fit on the 16x9 screen in "native mode".

It doesn't matter what input you are using either.


AFAIK the above is true.
 

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AFAIK the "Native Mode" on my x1 clone behaves exactly as stated in the FAQ. (for NTSC)


If I input an NTSC signal (480i via svid) in 16:9 mode you get a height of 450 (the publicised cropping of 30 rows to avoid having to scale)


If "Native Mode" were truely native you would expect a height of 480 but since firm3.6 you you get the same cropping to 450. This cropping only appears to happen when I feed it NTSC480 (I dont have pscan so I can't check the 480p but FAQ says same applies)


When fed with a PAL signal this is displayed as 704x576 which is not 4:3 so looks odd.


so when watching 4:3 content


NTSC native mode GOOD (but not strictly native just smaller version of 4:3 mode)

PAL native mode BAD (stick to 4:3 mode)

HTPC native mode Exactly What It Says On The Tin (res
 

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doubleJ, I think you are inadvertently adding to the confusion because you're using an HTPC, which is a completely different case.


The original question (in my interpretation) is:


"If I connect a PAL 4:3 (576i) source, what resolution will I get on the screen if I choose Native Mode on the X1?"


Hopefully someone that is using PAL can give an update, but the last information that I had on it (in the FAQ) was that:


"PAL has the same issue as NTSC (used to have) for "native" mode. The video decoder outputs 704x576, so the image will appear too tall."


So it sounds to me like Native Mode will display a 704x576 resolution image, which is out of proportion (too tall) when displayed natively with square pixels like the X1 would do in Native mode.


A later firmware version fixed this same kind of problem for NTSC by changing it to display 640x450 cropped Native aspect instead.


I have not heard of any fix being implemented for the PAL issue, so it may still be that 4:3 PAL will still appear too tall when displayed using Native Mode on the X1. As I said, hopefully a current PAL user can give you an update.


p.s. I see DrPoko posted his experiences while I was composing my post.. so it looks like there has not been any firmware change to fix 4:3 PAL in Native Mode.
 

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I'm only on firm 3.8 so there may be a chance that firm 4.1 (or 4.2) may be different.


Not sure I'm ready to change the firmware as I have a warranty with IBM who may take issue with a "non-ibm" firmware being on the unit if it had to be repaired. (I've had the unit less than a week)


If anyone else has 4.1 (or 4.2) I'd like to know if the PAL native mode has changed as this may sway me into biting the bullet and upgrading.
 

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I appologize if I was causing more complication. Given that the x1 doesn't have a tuner, I wasn't sure how to get an actual ntsc feed into the projector, natively. That's why I mentioned that it could work differently dependant upon input.

If I used coax to vcr and svideo from vcr to x1, used the vcr for the tv channels, and set the x1 to native, it would crop the picture to 640x450? Why wouldn't it display the full 640x480 in the center of the 800x600 pixels?

I'm sorry if I'm further confounding things, but now that I've been asked I realized a deficiency in the knowledge-base.

JJ
 

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JJ, It appears that's just the way they made it work for 480i signals in native mode. I'm glad they did cause it allows me to have a 16x9 screen and not have the image off the screen. If you have a 4x3 screen, why not just use "4x3 mode" when you are watching 4x3 material? It does not matter what input you use, it's just the signal you are feeding it.
 

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Well...

I'm choosing to give up on this and just keep using the htpc for everything. I've gotten lost beyond comprehension.

Hehehe...

JJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
My question was exactly what technut Canada explained:

Quote:
"If I connect a PAL 4:3 (576i) source, what resolution will I get on the screen if I choose Native Mode on the X1?"
I don't know the answer and I cannot check right now. Maybe InFocus could explain exactly how the thing works...

Quote:
If you have a 4x3 screen, why not just use "4x3 mode" when you are watching 4x3 material? It does not matter what input you use, it's just the signal you are feeding it.
Right Ryan M, but I have a 16:9 screen so I had to zoom to fit in the same height of a 16:9 screen when in 4:3 mode (besides I wouldn't have the image exactly in the centre).

I know that in Native mode I'd have a resolution of about 75%, but it could be ok as I see 95% movie in 16:9 format and in 4:3 just some extras.


Bye

Rob
 

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I don't know if this helps shed any light, but last night I actually "tried" using native mode and I was suprised at the results. Keep in mind that I was using a htpc for everything.

When doing the win2k installation (702x480 I think) the image was almost perfectly centered on my 16:9 screen.

When the windows loading screen appeared (480p) the image was almost perfectly centered on my 16:9 screen.

When I set the resolution at 800x600 the image filled the 800x600 area.

When I set the resolution at 1280x768 the image used virtual desktop, showing the 800x600 area.

JJ
 

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Ok, I have a 16x9 screen and with 4x3 pal material in "native mode" I lose maybe 25% less top and bottom than than I do with the X1 in 4x3 mode.


It would be great if "native mode" made 4x3 pal fit the 16x9 screen height.


Edit: I am using Firmware 4.0

Edit2: In "native mode" 4x3 pal material is smaller than in "4x3 mode" and the AR seems OK.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
rmn,

I just checked and aspect ratio is not ok (Native mode - PAL - firmware ver. 4.2). I get an image of 169 x 137,5 cm (more or less) that is 0,81 (the correct AR should be 0.75). I double checked with a test disc and the circle wasn't ok. Maybe InFocus could fix...


Rob
 

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Rob,


I am not sure how I should be checking this.


The information in my previous post was based on feeding Pal 4x3 from a video recorder into the video 2 port .


I have now fed in a pal 4x3 DVD via video 1 at 480i. In "4x3 mode" it measured 2070mm x 1400mm. In "native mode" it was 1670mmx 1180mm and fitted the height of my screen perfectly!!!


How is the AR in native now? I am not sure?


Also why does 4x3 from a DVD fit but not from a video?


Regards Bob
 
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