X1 and Native mode

Oh...

Ooops...

Well, technically, 4:3 for 576 horizontal lines would have to be 768 verticle lines, but I doubt your tv signal is 768x576. I know pal dvd's are 720x576.

I don't really think I'm understanding your question. If you hook a tv tuner (computer, vcr, cable box, etc...) to the x1 and run it in full screen, the x1 will scale to use as many pixels as possible.

I think what you're meaning is "if I am feeding a 640x480 source (computer) to the x1 and set the x1 for native instead of 4:3 or 16:9, will the display actually be only using those 640x480 mirrors and not the 800x600 mirrors, thus resulting in black borders around all four sides of the image". Is this correct?

JJ

I was wondering the same thing. I'm a projector noob (4 hours on lamp) but here are my findings.


I see from the FAQ that "Native Mode" for NTSC was changed in firmware 3.6 to be slightly cropped to fit in the same hight as an NTSC 16:9 picture.


So if you have a 16:9 screen you use "16:9" setting for widscreen signal and if use "Native Mode" for 4:3. This will display the 4:3 image in the middle of the 16:9 screen. (top and bottom of 800x600 never used)


It doesn't appear to be the same for PAL. The "Native Mode" is much taller than the 16:9. (at least on my IBM clone on firm 3.8) I assume this is 576ish and is not scaled, I haven't looked that closely.


It would be great if a firmware update would give PAL users the same feature as NTSC. This would require the PAL 4:3 to be scalled down to 450 high to fit in the 16:9 frame.


I realise that "native mode" is designed for a computer input but if there is a special case for NTSC resolution why not for PAL.


Cheers

What input connector are you using during this "4:3 on a 16:9 screen" mode switch? Also, have you actually tried it, yet? I would think that native mode would use all 800x600 for 4:3, given that's "native" to the projector. I could be wrong, you'd just have to try it to really tell. I use my computer for watching tv, so it upconverts the 525 horizontal lines for ntsc to 720 for my output.

I think I see what you're getting at, though. Since I have my htpc set for at 16:9 resolution, I have to use the 16:9 mode, or it's vertically stretched. On the other hand, when I run 800x453 (technut) I set the projector in 4:3 or native mode, even though it's a 16:9 feed the projector sees it as 800x600. I think the determining factor is going to be whether the projector interprets your feed as 16:9 or 4:3. I could be wrong, though. This is a little confusing.

JJ

AFAIK the "Native Mode" on my x1 clone behaves exactly as stated in the FAQ. (for NTSC)


If I input an NTSC signal (480i via svid) in 16:9 mode you get a height of 450 (the publicised cropping of 30 rows to avoid having to scale)


If "Native Mode" were truely native you would expect a height of 480 but since firm3.6 you you get the same cropping to 450. This cropping only appears to happen when I feed it NTSC480 (I dont have pscan so I can't check the 480p but FAQ says same applies)


When fed with a PAL signal this is displayed as 704x576 which is not 4:3 so looks odd.


so when watching 4:3 content


NTSC native mode GOOD (but not strictly native just smaller version of 4:3 mode)

PAL native mode BAD (stick to 4:3 mode)

HTPC native mode Exactly What It Says On The Tin (res

doubleJ, I think you are inadvertently adding to the confusion because you're using an HTPC, which is a completely different case.


The original question (in my interpretation) is:


"If I connect a PAL 4:3 (576i) source, what resolution will I get on the screen if I choose Native Mode on the X1?"


Hopefully someone that is using PAL can give an update, but the last information that I had on it (in the FAQ) was that:


"PAL has the same issue as NTSC (used to have) for "native" mode. The video decoder outputs 704x576, so the image will appear too tall."


So it sounds to me like Native Mode will display a 704x576 resolution image, which is out of proportion (too tall) when displayed natively with square pixels like the X1 would do in Native mode.


A later firmware version fixed this same kind of problem for NTSC by changing it to display 640x450 cropped Native aspect instead.


I have not heard of any fix being implemented for the PAL issue, so it may still be that 4:3 PAL will still appear too tall when displayed using Native Mode on the X1. As I said, hopefully a current PAL user can give you an update.


p.s. I see DrPoko posted his experiences while I was composing my post.. so it looks like there has not been any firmware change to fix 4:3 PAL in Native Mode.

My question was exactly what technut Canada explained:

Quote:
I don't know the answer and I cannot check right now. Maybe InFocus could explain exactly how the thing works...

Quote:
Right Ryan M, but I have a 16:9 screen so I had to zoom to fit in the same height of a 16:9 screen when in 4:3 mode (besides I wouldn't have the image exactly in the centre).

I know that in Native mode I'd have a resolution of about 75%, but it could be ok as I see 95% movie in 16:9 format and in 4:3 just some extras.


Bye

Rob

I don't know if this helps shed any light, but last night I actually "tried" using native mode and I was suprised at the results. Keep in mind that I was using a htpc for everything.

When doing the win2k installation (702x480 I think) the image was almost perfectly centered on my 16:9 screen.

When the windows loading screen appeared (480p) the image was almost perfectly centered on my 16:9 screen.

When I set the resolution at 800x600 the image filled the 800x600 area.

When I set the resolution at 1280x768 the image used virtual desktop, showing the 800x600 area.

JJ

Rob,


I am not sure how I should be checking this.


The information in my previous post was based on feeding Pal 4x3 from a video recorder into the video 2 port .


I have now fed in a pal 4x3 DVD via video 1 at 480i. In "4x3 mode" it measured 2070mm x 1400mm. In "native mode" it was 1670mmx 1180mm and fitted the height of my screen perfectly!!!


How is the AR in native now? I am not sure?


Also why does 4x3 from a DVD fit but not from a video?


Regards Bob