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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry, yet another X1 post... But alot of people check here before buying, and this might help...


To help those still on the fence about getting an X1, I am posting a poll to see if those with X1's have had problems with guests being bothered by rainbows. Many people are worried that even if they don't mind the rainbows, that their friends will complain instead of being wowed. I think those unitiated to the concept of rainbows are less likely to complain (or maybe they are just polite.)
 

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I've only had one guy so far notice a rainbow, and he's an engineer interested in optics who does a lot of photography. We'd watched a lot scenes, stuff ranging form Monsters, Inc to Lord of the Rings, and he then asked if I had and black and white material so he could see the contrast ratio clearly. All I had was the DVD of "Pi" which is intentionally shot in such a way that it's almost bi-chromatic...crushed whites and crushed blacks with almost not greyscale detail in between...also very grainy...and kind of a lousy DVD (great movie though). The exact kind of material you'd expect to be rainbow-city.


Anyway, after a minute of scrutinizing the picture and us talking about the PJ technology (he'd never seen anybody using a digital PJ for HT before), he said something like "hmm, what's that I'm seeing?" When I described the rainbow effect he said "yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking it must be." And then we went on to watch various scenes, etc. He never mentioned it again, so neither did I. When we were finished, he was impressed. Like myself, he acknowledged that there were of course a few limitations, but labeled the setup "entirely workable." Which in his language means he thought it was super-freaking-cool.


When I went back to his house, he told his wife about it as soon as he hit the front porch.


No other guest has even noticed them. I inadvertently told my girlfriend about them one night during a movie and her reaction was basically "Why did you tell me? Now I can see them." I felt lousy after that, but we went on watching the movie, and she found they didn't bother her, and by the end of the movie she had literally forgotten that we'd even talked about it (it's all just HT-geek-talk to her...blah blah pixels blah blah screendoor blah aspect ratio blah gain yadda yadda contrast rato...blah blah vesa-to-component adapter...she doesn't care, she just wants to watch a movie).


Anyway, as someone who was really worried about the guest factor before I demo'ed and finally bought one of these, I can say at least in my environment it is so a non-issue. Those few who see them just don't care. And almost nobody sees them to begin with. I voted "no one sees them" because the one person I told doesn't count, and the one guy who saw them himself was watching crappy B&W transfer, actively looking for faults, and knows a lot about optics, electronics, etc. The other dozen or so people never saw a thing.
 

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I never told my wife about rainbows and this will stay a secret. One of those secrets married couples never share unless they're on Jerry Springer. ;)


I really have to try to see the rainbows, though. They don't jump at me, I have to look for them in order to see them and it doesn't work all the time. I have to track my eyes across the screen back and forth to see them.


I should count my blessing and never tell my wife the truth. I rarely do anyway... ;)
 

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Should be another answer....


Saw rainbows, but they went away within a few weeks.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Samurai Jack
I've only had one guy so far notice a rainbow, and he's an engineer interested in optics who does a lot of photography. We'd watched a lot scenes, stuff ranging form Monsters, Inc to Lord of the Rings, and he then asked if I had and black and white material so he could see the contrast ratio clearly. All I had was the DVD of "Pi"
SNIP... uhh yeah, that would do it! I've said many times here that I generally don't see rainbows on the X1 unless I try, but Pi gave ME a headache. Though I think it would've on any screen that size. All that bright white and then the effects when the main character gets his headaches :rolleyes: And the high contrast black and white, there probably isn't an easier film to see rainbows on. It's the absolute worst case scenario DVD you can find. It should be present at all shootouts just to freak people out.
 

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I sent the following email to Projector Central on 5/30/03. It was regarding an informal rainbows test. (Two weeks after this test, rainbows began to bother me. So I returned it. However, you can see by the reviews below that many/most people would find rainbows to be a non-issue).


Note to PJCentral:

====================================================

I brought my X1 to work today and demonstrated it for 10 people. Our company is looking for a new projector for work. They are replacing an old, old, OLD, 100 lumen projector. HA, HA, HA. Our company also has a couple of Epson 51c units that are 2 years old.


Everyone, was impressed by the performance of the X1. I demo'd (DVD) video and PC. We also compared the X1 directly to our older LCD Epsons and the difference was (as you can guess), night and day. Because of the demo, we will be purchasing an X1 for the office.


The most interesting thing was my mini-test of rainbow effects. Once I explained to everyone what they were and how to see them, 8 of the 10 "reviewers" could see them! This far exceeds your projections. On the other hand, everyone that could see them, felt they would be of minimal distraction and didn't see them as an issue. Those of us who can see them only noticed them occasionally. And, essentially, we came to the conclusion that rainbow effects are like pixelation. They are there and you can see them -- if you WANT to -- but they do not deter from the presentation to the degree that we consider them detrimental.


Because of this, I would propose that most people actually can see rainbow effects -- if they know what they are looking for. But, to most people, they are not distracting enough to enter conscious perception. We also felt (as a group), that most -- if not all of us -- would never have been aware of the rainbow artifacts if we'd never been educated to look for them! And, we wonder if the people who find rainbow effects unbearable are also the same people who would be annoyed by pixelation or other defects in a picture.
 

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Quote:
uhh yeah, that would do it! I've said many times here that I generally don't see rainbows on the X1 unless I try, but Pi gave ME a headache.
LOL. Yeah, I'm fairly certain it would not be difficult to get a headache watching Pi on any sort of display. Like I said, that soooo doesn't count.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Samurai Jack
LOL. Yeah, I'm fairly certain it would not be difficult to get a headache watching Pi on any sort of display. Like I said, that soooo doesn't count.
Another one that is a rainbow magnet is The Man Who Wasn't There. This is a high contrast black and white movie that just isn't made for projectors like this. This is the type of movie I'll watch on my regular TV and not the projector.


BTW, I think the eye fatigue/headache isssue is totally bogus. The people that are claiming to have these problems are the same people who would get a headache looking at a blank wall. I am pretty sensitive to low refresh rates on computers, so I consider myself fairly discerning when it comes to visual stuff, and I have never even had the hint of eye strain or headaches in the hours with my X1. In fact, I can't even believe other people say this. It is kind of a reverse placebo effect for some people.
 

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To begin with, I do see rainbows on my X1. However, it's not a show-stopper for me. I find that I only see them when I'm tired or when the movie is really prone to it, such as PI or Dark City. In those cases, I always forget about them as the movie goes on.


Not guest has ever made note of it. I have constantly dropped hints to see if I could get them to be more attentive.....nothing. I will say things like "This movie is difficult for projectors to handle (Dark City)" or "Sometimes people see things in the image"....without naming the actual phenomena...and not one has actually identified the issue, even when I actually ask them if they saw anything "weird" about the picture.


I think that I agree with Gregg that anyone can see rainbows if they know what to look for. It's all a matter if you are one of those that REALLY notice them and cannot tolerate them.


Great Poll tkx1
 

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After about eight months, I have had no complaints. I don't tell anyone about them, though, except a few people who are interested.

I really didn't notice them at first, or rather, maybe I did but attributed them to something else. I see them often enough since I use my x1 with an htpc, dvd, sacd, and comcast cable, as well as internet browsing, so I'm constantly looking around, switching things, etc, which is usually when I see them. I also use glasses although I have no idea if this is a factor.

Personally, I kind of like rainbows. They don't even really bother me in Pi, since they almost feel like part of the movie, in a way. Sort of like eno doing video enhancements.

I very rarely see rainbows during (color) movies or other uses when I sit back and just look at the screen, but if I did, I'm sure I would like them less.
 

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I've only had the X1 one night so far :) hehe.


I do notice them now and then but mainly when im turning my head or moving my eyes onto or away from the screen. brining up the mouse cursour and moving that i notice them then a little.


Watched 2 hours of stargate DTV 16:9 last night, i noticed the odd one but wasn't too worried. My eyes seem to get a bit tired but im guessing given its the first time ive actually watched it that im not use to such a big screen (given ive come from 76CM WS CRT)


D
 

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Totally agree with you Spoonfed. Had my X1 only a few days too. I notice them but only in those circumstances you mention, but they do not bother me.


I cannot believe that some people do not see them at all. Most obvious rainbow I've seen is when you run the 4:3 and 16:9 test with the circle pattern on the THX Optimizer DVD.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I can't say if the X1 is better or worse than another projector that you are considering, but make sure you try it before comitting, but if you are one of the many that love their X1 relax and enjoy...

Based on the two X1 polls this week, I would strongly suggest people trial an X1 with a clear return policy first.


Only slightly more than 1/2 the people who tried them from B.B. eneded up keeping their X1's.


On the bright side, if you like your X1 keep it and enjoy, and don't worry about your guests being bothered. The vast majority of respondants say that guests never complain about the picture. See the polls for the most recent results. (this is a XPOST)
 

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Oh no! Another X1 rainbow thread!


Over 50 people have seen my X1 in action (actually watched an entire movie) , not one complained about eye fatigue or rainbows.


One's setup can cause a higher susceptibility of rainbows to be more prevelant. There are many posts on here regarding that.


I can see the rainbow effect on my RPTV in the same instances as the X1. Never knew what it was before, but it is only noticeable on end credits. Maybe I should send it back - its only 2 1/2 years old. :)



Of COURSE you should try before you're locked in to keeping something. Only a careless consumer would do otherwise. I made several trips and spent quite some time viewing my RPTV in action before I took it home - the same went for the X1. I could return it if I wasn't happy at no cost to myself.


Now, if anyone knows where they accept wife returns please notify me ASAP!!!! I want my FULL refund!!! Now where did I put those warranty papers. hehee
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by tkx1
Only slightly more than 1/2 the people who tried them from B.B. eneded up keeping their X1's.(this is a XPOST)
That poll about people returning their projector to BB is bogus. In fact the poll in this thread is also bogus. None of these polls are precise any in way shape or form. It would only take a few minutes from malicious people to sway the poll one way or the other.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by GreggPenn
We also felt (as a group), that most -- if not all of us -- would never have been aware of the rainbow artifacts if we'd never been educated to look for them! And, we wonder if the people who find rainbow effects unbearable are also the same people who would be annoyed by pixelation or other defects in a picture.
I never knew what a rainbow was before, but after watching a DLP projector and seeing them I came online and searched to see if other people saw the same thing I did. Only then did I find out about rainbows.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
In response to these "bogus" polls (no offense taken), I hope they are helpful to people who, like myself, are new to FP, and get very confused by the extreme opinions people have to there projectors. Projectorcentral and AVSForums is full of reviews by people buying phj's sight unseen online and either loving or hating them.


It is hard to get your hands on an entry level pj without risking paying shipping or restocking (I hope this thread has affirmed that B.B. should except returns w/o restocking fees, thanks GreggPenn.) Assuming people aren't malitiously skewing results, and judging from all those buying "used" X1's from BB, there are many people who buy X1's and change their minds, for whatever reason. I hope this doesn't discourage B.B. and others from free trial periods. It also strongly suggests that an X1 should not be bought sight unseen.


RE rainbows: I, for one, was worried that even though I am not bothered, come MNF my friends would have a problem. Who wants a pj that 20% of people can't enjoy. However, I hope the "guests and rainbows" poll helps reassure people that this WILL NOT be a problem. Many have previously suggested that rainbows are mainly a problem for the everyday user/initiated, and this poll reaffirms this notion (illogical or not.)


Maybe this will help sort out what to make of all of the strong X1 opinions. It is a great value PJ, and if you can tolerate its flaws as an everyday user your friends will love it- bring on the football.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by simmike
Another one that is a rainbow magnet is The Man Who Wasn't There. This is a high contrast black and white movie that just isn't made for projectors like this. This is the type of movie I'll watch on my regular TV and not the projector.
Just to pound in the point of how bad Pi is in this regard, I didn't have much of a problem with The Man Who Wasn't There. And just for the record, I've never had a guest say anything negative with an 8 foot wide picture on a white wall from 12 feet away.


Reactions seemed about 50/50 at darinp's Seattle shootout, which was the first time it was ever used. There were maybe 30 forum members there. More complaints on the small high gain screen than the large one.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by simmike
That poll about people returning their projector to BB is bogus. In fact the poll in this thread is also bogus. None of these polls are precise any in way shape or form. It would only take a few minutes from malicious people to sway the poll one way or the other.
simmike ... how about you start a new trend ...

You stop posting pro-X1 malicious posts ... and the anti-X1'ers will stop maliciously skewing polls.

(assuming you are pro-X1 ... but it can go either way)

We are mostly all adults ... I am sure many of us can answer a poll question as such.


In any case. ... I believe the general consensus is that many "guests" stand a better chance of not being bothered if they do not know what to look for.

That is why my new doormat states:

"Welcome to the Breslin's"

"There will be no talk of rainbows allowed"
 
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