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x264 Encoding Options for Hardware Compatibility & DXVA

306501 Views 268 Replies 76 Participants Last post by  billqs
This thread is a spin-off of some posts regarding how to get MKV files encoded with x264 to work with hardware acceleration (a/k/a DirectX Video Acceleration, or DXVA) on ATI HD2000, HD3000, HD4000 and NVIDIA 8000 and 9000 video cards.


The following settings will ensure hardware compatibility with players like the PS3, and also allow smooth DXVA playback on ATI and NVIDIA graphics cards when using the Cyberlink H.264 decoder included with PowerDVD , or the free MPC Video Decoder ( 32-bit , 64-bit ), available as a standalone DirectShow filter, or as part of Media Player Classic HomeCinema . While the settings detailed below ensure compatibility with either the Cyberlink or the MPC decoder, it is really the Cyberlink decoder that demands the stream both comply with L4.1 and declare L4.1 in the stream.


The settings have been tested to work with PowerDVD, ZoomPlayer, Media Player Classic HomeCinema, using the Haali Splitter or the Nero Digital Parser, and using the Overlay Mixer, VMR7, and VMR9 Windowless/Renderless video renderers.


The Bottom Line
Everybody should be encoding HD content (1080p, 720p) to Profile High @ Level 4.1. For smooth playback, "--level 4.1" should be used to mark the file as compatible when encoding. The best MeGUI profile for x264 is the DXVA-HD-HQ profile.


Edit: Avoid B-pyramids --- they still have an outstanding fix required.
Note: Older Nvidia driver versions exhibited decoding errors with B-pyramid enabled. This is no longer an issue since Forceware 169.21.


The MeGUI DXVA-HD-HQ profile options:


--level 4.1 --ref 4 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --filter -1:-1 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --vbv-bufsize 50000 --vbv-maxrate 50000 --me umh


Everybody should be encoding SD content (576p, 480p, or less) to Profile High @ Level 3.1 For smooth playback, "--level 3.1" should be used to mark the file as compatible when encoding. The best MeGUI profile for x264 is the DXVA-SD-HQ profile.


The MeGUI DXVA-SD-HQ profile options:


-level 3.1 --ref 8 --mixed-refs --bframes 3 --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --filter -1:-1 --trellis 2 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --vbv-bufsize 14000 --vbv-maxrate 17500 --me umh


The Details

The associations responsible for the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc standards approved the H.264 profile/level [email protected] for HD content, and [email protected] for SD content. As such, the Cyberlink decoder enforces compliance with the levels.


That has resulted in two implications:


1. H.264 video must comply with the L4.1 and L3.1 limitations for the Decoded Picture Buffer (DPB) size, which limits the video resolution and number of reference frames.


2. H.264 streams must declare L4.1 or L3.1 in the "level_idc" flag (set by --level with x264) in order to achieve smooth DXVA playback.


The Settings

Keep in mind that, no matter the resolution, it is still generally recommended to only use between 1-5 reference frames, usually centering on 3.


A patch was added in x264 revision 721 that changes the way --ref works, allowing it to specify the total Decoded Picture Buffer (DPB) size. Now, B-frames can be used without the DPB size exceeding the --ref value.


The DPB size is the max at the given resolution, so if your resolution is between the resolutions given, use the lower DPB size (i.e., 1920x816 is between 1920x720 and 1920x864, so you can have a max DPB of 5).

Resolution: Max DPB Size (x264 revision 721+ encoder settings)

L4.1

1920x1088: 4 (--ref 4)

1920x864: 5 (--ref 5)

1920x720: 6 (--ref 6)


L4.1

1280x720: 9 (--ref 9)

1280x648: 10 (--ref 10)

1280x588: 11 (--ref 11)

1280x540: 12 (--ref 12)



1280x498: 13 (--ref 13)

1280x462: 14 (--ref 14)

1280x432: 15 (--ref 15)

1280x405: 16 (--ref 16)


L3.1

720x(any): 8 (--ref 8)

720x576: 11 (--ref 11)

720x480: 13 (--ref 13)

Resolution: Max DPB Size (x264 revision

L4.1

1920x1088: 4 (--ref 3 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1920x864: 5 (--ref 4 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1920x720: 6 (--ref 5 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)


L4.1

1280x720: 9 (--ref 8 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1280x648: 10 (--ref 9 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1280x588: 11 (--ref 10 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1280x540: 12 (--ref 11 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1280x498: 13 (--ref 12 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1280x462: 14 (--ref 13 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1280x432: 15 (--ref 14 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

1280x405: 16 (--ref 15 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)


L3.1

720x(any): 8 (--ref 10 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

720x576: 11 (--ref 10 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)

720x480: 13 (--ref 12 --bframes 3 --no-b-pyramid)


Retrofitting MKVs or other H.264 videos

Existing MKV, MP4, TS or AVI files that work with DXVA, but do not play back smoothly, can have their level_idc value changed, if the H.264 video stream actually complies with Profile [email protected] (HD) or L3.1 (SD).



Courtesy of DJBlu, you can use one of his IDC Changer utilities to automatically change the level_idc flag for MKV or AVI files. Note that they are intended for use on 720p files, because they only need the level_idc flag changed, while 1080p files usually exceed L4.1 specs. If you have an L4.1 1080p file, IDC Changer will work for it, too, but your decoder or hardware may choke (errors or video corruption) when you come across video that exceeds the L4.1 specs.


IDC Changer comes in three varieties:

IDC Changer GUI v0.3 - GUI version for changing single files
IDC Multi-Changer GUI v0.1 - GUI version for changing multiple files at once
IDC Changer Command-Line v0.1 - CLI version for batch scripts, etc.



To manually change your files with much more work, continue on.


This process is for MKV files and has been adapted from a process originally described by DJBlu .


Download the following programs:

MKVtoolnix
MKVExtractGUI
H264info

Optional: AVInaptic


Extract MKVtoolnix into a folder.

Extract MKVExtractGUI into the same folder.

Extract H264info into another folder (can be the same folder).

Optional: Extract AVInaptic into another folder (can be the same folder).


Open your MKV with MKVExtractGUI. Check Options menu > Tabs > TimeCode. Check the boxes for all the video, audio, and subtitle tracks you want to keep and click Extract.


Once all are extracted, you will have separate files for your video, audio and subtitle tracks, plus TimeCode_TrackX.txt files for each track.


Open H264info.


Set Input = Extracted .h264 file

Set Output = new_file_name.h264


In the "Level (1 - 5.1)" box, enter 4.1 for an HD stream, or 3.1 for an SD stream.


Click Start and wait for the stream to be fixed.


Open the MKVtoolnix mkvmerge GUI (mmg.exe).


Click add and select the new_file_name.h264 file created by H264info.


Click add and select a file for each audio and subtitle track you need to add.


In the Tracks box, click on the "MPEG-4 part 10 ES" video track.


At the far right of the Timecodes box at the bottom of the window, click Browse and select the TimeCode_TrackX.txt file for your video track (probably Track1).


Click the "Format specific options" tab.


In the FPS box, enter the frames per second of your original MKV file. If you don't know the framerate, you can use the AVInaptic tool to open the original MKV file to get all manner of information, including the FPS. If your video is FILM content, the likely choice is "24000/1001". If your video is progressive NTSC VIDEO, the likely choice is "60000/1001". If your video is interlaced NTSC VIDEO, the likely choice is "30000/1001". If your video is PAL VIDEO, the likely choice is "25".


Click on your audio track in the Tracks box.


Click on the "General track options" tab.


At the far right of the Timecodes box at the bottom of the window, click Browse and select the TimeCode_TrackX.txt file for your audio track (probably Track2). Do the same for any subsequent tracks.


Create an "Output filename" in the box at the far bottom of the window and click "Start muxing".


Wait for the new MKV to be remuxed and you should have an MKV file with smooth DXVA playback.
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101 - 120 of 269 Posts
 Attachment 103176


Added Ole drag and drop


Just drag the files you want to change into the window.

 

IDC Multi Changer.zip 11.619140625k . file

Attachments

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBlu /forum/post/13229116

Attachment 103176


Added Ole drag and drop


Just drag the files you want to change into the window.

Thank you very much, ole makes things much easier. I appriciate all the hard work.


But I must disagree with your other comment, some parts may be different, and depending on how you coded it (since you weren't planning on dual-use) it may or may not be easier just to copy and paste some code to make a second application...but you certianly CAN have a console + gui program


Many, many gui applications have command line arguments you may pass. vlc and zoomplayer are shining examples. You would be shocked at how much you can control from the command line through zoomplayer


You grab the arguments, set a variable (if you want, so you can check for it later, to autoclose, or whatever) then using code you prefill the location, change the IDC and "click" the change button.


I would not consider this a "console" application, but it would be relatively automated. If you needed to do a large quantity, the multichanger would probobly work better. For automated scripts it may be easier to have a true console application that you were planning on making.


PS. I'm getting kinda off the dxva topic, and I don't want to sound ungrateful, cause I really do appriciate the program especially with drag/drop. So, I'll stop here; you can code it whichever way you want, and we all will appriciate it either way.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themolester /forum/post/13233844


Thank you very much, ole makes things much easier. I appriciate all the hard work.


But I must disagree with your other comment, some parts may be different, and depending on how you coded it (since you weren't planning on dual-use) it may or may not be easier just to copy and paste some code to make a second application...but you certianly CAN have a console + gui program


Many, many gui applications have command line arguments you may pass. vlc and zoomplayer are shining examples. You would be shocked at how much you can control from the command line through zoomplayer


You grab the arguments, set a variable (if you want, so you can check for it later, to autoclose, or whatever) then using code you prefill the location, change the IDC and "click" the change button.


I would not consider this a "console" application, but it would be relatively automated. If you needed to do a large quantity, the multichanger would probobly work better. For automated scripts it may be easier to have a true console application that you were planning on making.


PS. I'm getting kinda off the dxva topic, and I don't want to sound ungrateful, cause I really do appriciate the program especially with drag/drop. So, I'll stop here; you can code it whichever way you want, and we all will appriciate it either way.

The only thing stopping the Console app is lazy programming on my part as I haven't coded the change to the mkv's in a function its just under the button. I will tho in time write the console app.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themolester /forum/post/13223039


its useful, but not for hd decoding, probably just for mpeg2 decoding at sd resolution. The 8500/8600 series came out with has a NEW version of purevideo (pv2.0?) decoding onboard (though i've heared some of the 8800s have it now too)

I think you got it wrong. http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_43029.html shows clearly that some form of acceleration is available. I'm just wondering if it is in any way worth it.


I have an E2160 overclocked to 2.6 GHz, if using DXVA could bring CPU utilization from 85% to 55% I'd do it, as an example. If it's just a few percentage points, then it wouldn't be worth the hassle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBlu
The only thing stopping the Console app is lazy programming on my part as I haven't coded the change to the mkv's in a function its just under the button. I will tho in time write the console app.
Had sod all to do at work today so here you go


Console Version

Attachment 103261

 

IDCChange.zip 5.80078125k . file

Attachments

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3

Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 /forum/post/13234653


I think you got it wrong. http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_43029.html shows clearly that some form of acceleration is available. I'm just wondering if it is in any way worth it.


I have an E2160 overclocked to 2.6 GHz, if using DXVA could bring CPU utilization from 85% to 55% I'd do it, as an example. If it's just a few percentage points, then it wouldn't be worth the hassle.

hrmm... you seem to be right, some accelleration of h264 IS in fact available in the vast majority of the geforce line. I guess what I was referring to, is the lack of IDCT and CAVLC/CABAC as that was only available on the 8500/8600 series. How much of a difference this makes, I'm not sure...


I have not tried to get a non-8500/8600 to decode h264 before, so I'm not even sure what the process would be (if it is even different). All I can say, is try it out, and see if it works. I looked up the definition, and somone else may be able to give a more scientific explination... but IDCT stands for inverse discrete cosine transform.... maybe its just me, but that sounds like some complex calculations, and a good thing to offload from cpu.


Also important to mention however, if you check on newegg, you'll find some VERY cheap 8500s available; they start at just over 50 dollars. You will no doubt notice more power in games, and you will have the fullest hw acceleration possible. I just recently upgraded myself to get the 8600gts for a little over 100. Was a very nice purchase, and I'd do it again. No doubt this is far cheaper than upgrading 200 bucks on a new core2 chip or an equivelant to do full software decoding (which... admitedly, will decode a wider variety of things with fewer compatability problems).


Anyway, I tentatively retract my previous statement; could some one please clarify how much processing is required for hd h264 decoding of idct and cavlc/cabac compared to the rest of the h264 decoding? Is it a good chunk of the processing, or just 1-2 % on top of the rest.
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I had a 7300GT a while back - although it would accelerate h264 (near halving CPU), it would skip at times on more complicated scenes. Not enough memory bandwidth, someone suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBlu /forum/post/13237506


Had sod all to do at work today so here you go


Console Version

Attachment 103261

Whats the console version supposed to do? On vista, nothing happens after I unzip and execute the file.
Im not a tech guy..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJBlu /forum/post/13229116

Attachment 103176


Added Ole drag and drop


Just drag the files you want to change into the window.

So, one additional request... adding the ability to pre-populate the list of files in this GUI version from a command-line argument. That would be the best of both worlds: The ability to add a context-menu item for .mkv and .avi files to edit them in the IDC Multi Changer, and the ability to drag 'n' drop in new files. The console app could be used instead, but I'm not into batch processing, just ease of access to the program.


Also, when I click the Add Files button, I get the following exception:

Quote:
Unhandled exception


Method not found: 'System.String[]

System.Windows.Forms.OpenFileDialog.get_SafeFileNames()'.

Code:
Code:
See the end of this message for details on invoking 
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'System.String[] System.Windows.Forms.OpenFileDialog.get_SafeFileNames()'.
   at WindowsApplication1.F.Button1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
IDC Changer
    Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/IDC%20Changer/IDC%20Multi%20Changer.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
    Assembly Version: 8.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 8.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Data
    Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.832 (QFE.050727-8300)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:


    


When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by embolism /forum/post/13241704


Whats the console version supposed to do? On vista, nothing happens after I unzip and execute the file.
Im not a tech guy..

I wouldn't use this version if you don't know what the console is.


Try the one further up the page
Hi guys; thanks for all.


I'm not familiar with X264 and mkv.

Anyway i've made some encoding trials with meGui (X264 v.736) with L 4.1.

OS Vista32, Rendering graph: Haali Splitter > Cyberlink h264 decoder(latest Ultra patched) > EVR.

(HW: E6750, 2GB RAM 800Mhz, nVidia 8600GTS)

CPU usage is %13 with Cyberlink while ffdshow consumpts %44.

So hardware decoding is working but on the other hand, hardware deinterlacing never works.

(the source file was European HDTV h264 mpegTS 1920*1088i)


Here is a SS: (here, source file was 1440*1088i)





Any help from you experienced users will be appreciated.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah /forum/post/13250159


Hi guys; thanks for all.


I'm not familiar with X264 and mkv.

Anyway i've made some encoding trials with meGui (X264 v.736) with L 4.1.

OS Vista32, Rendering graph: Haali Splitter > Cyberlink h264 decoder(latest Ultra patched) > EVR.

(HW: E6750, 2GB RAM 800Mhz, nVidia 8600GTS)

CPU usage is %13 with Cyberlink while ffdshow consumpts %44.

So hardware decoding is working but on the other hand, hardware deinterlacing never works.

(the source file was European HDTV h264 mpegTS 1920*1088i)


Here is a SS: (here, source file was 1440*1088i)



Any help from you experienced users will be appreciated.

What does your avs file look like, did you run Avisynth creator in megui? If not, let it analyse the source and make an avs script for you My first guess would be you need to deinterlace the source, probably with tfm() .. the Avisynth creator will let you see what the output will look like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebkell /forum/post/13270011


What does your avs file look like, did you run Avisynth creator in megui? If not, let it analyse the source and make an avs script for you My first guess would be you need to deinterlace the source, probably with tfm() .. the Avisynth creator will let you see what the output will look like.

Hi rebkell, thanks for respond.


I was just investigating hardware deinterlacing capability of x264 L4.1 as well.

Normally, i prefer to re-encode h264 source files to h264 again and leave them interlaced.

So finally i can watch them on HA mode.

After i understood x264 just gives hardware decoding, i've found this method for converting to x264.

This method is for interlaced source files.


First, i demux the source ts file and dump original ac3.

After re-encoding to x264, i remux encoded video with original audio into mkv using Haali muxer.


I prepare this graph: (you don't need to resize of course)




And i save this text as avs:




Here is my megui config:



Here are the sample files:


(Decoding graph:

For Vista: Haali Splitter > Cyberlink h264 decoder (of Ultra) > EVR

For XP: Haali Splitter > Cyberlink h264 decoder (of Ultra) > Overlay (or WMR9) )


Source file:


http://rapidshare.com/files/95449126/tenis.ts.html



Encoded file without deinterlacing and resizing: (HA)
http://rapidshare.com/files/95480185/tenis.mkv.html


Encoded file with deinterlacing and resizing: (HA)
http://rapidshare.com/files/96213704..._rica.mkv.html
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3
The console version works without a hitch. Thanks!
Rica I have no suggestions, you're in territory I've never been around. doom9.org is where the pros hang out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebkell /forum/post/13274978


Rica I have no suggestions, you're in territory I've never been around. doom9.org is where the pros hang out.

Thanks rebkell; i hang out here since i'm not a pro


BTW, there are lots of pros here.

This, i think, explains why i'm here.
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I decided to give HA another try today and I actually got it working (x264), even at 1024x576 (projector native resolution). I am thrilled! BUT (there it is) HA doesn't seem to kick in when the auto-loading version of DirectVobSub is loaded. I am using AC3Filter, DirectSound, VMR9 renderless (only one working with HA) and the Cyberlink H264 decoder. What can I do to be able to display subtitles?


[edit]

Ow boy, I have been cheering too soon. When using HA there is some kind of macroblocking/dithering on a large scale. It also flickers in those areas where the picture is distorted. It's not watchable though since it's not a smooth picture. Does any of you know what this is and how I can fix it?

[/edit]
Regarding HA for 1080p, I heard doing this might help:

Change the Level to 4.1 and use 5 Ref Frames for 1080p


DJ - with your application, we change profile to 4.1

How does one use 5 ref frames?

Has anybody achieved acceleration for 1080p on any graphic card?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondust /forum/post/13287742


I decided to give HA another try today and I actually got it working (x264), even at 1024x576 (projector native resolution). I am thrilled! BUT (there it is) HA doesn't seem to kick in when the auto-loading version of DirectVobSub is loaded. I am using AC3Filter, DirectSound, VMR9 renderless (only one working with HA) and the Cyberlink H264 decoder. What can I do to be able to display subtitles?


[edit]

Ow boy, I have been cheering too soon. When using HA there is some kind of macroblocking/dithering on a large scale. It also flickers in those areas where the picture is distorted. It's not watchable though since it's not a smooth picture. Does any of you know what this is and how I can fix it?

[/edit]

you need to disable directvobsub and enable the built in subtitle decoder of MediaPlayerClassic

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 /forum/post/13308312


you need to disable directvobsub and enable the built in subtitle decoder of powerdvd

Thanks for replying. I use MPC-HC with the Powerdvd H264 decoder. I haven't been able to load an x264 mkv file in Powerdvd (version 7.3319a). Is there a subtitle possibility other than directvobsub in MPC-HC?
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