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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking to buy a E50A10 tomorrow, my only reservation at this point is how will it handle 1080i games from the XBOX 360. If I understand right the TV does 720p native, so I guess it has to up convert 1080i games?


Is there any reasonable way to quantify the difference in quality I'd get from buying one of the new 1080p sets coming out versus this sweet Sony? I'd hate to feel the need to upgrade TV's in 2.5 months because I can't milk my XBOX 360 for all its worth.
 

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If memory serves, your new TV will be ideal for the Xbox 360 because it outputs at a maximum resolution of 720P. So there would be no quantifiable difference between it and a 1080P set; while the 1080P one may scale the image to a higher resolution it lacks the ability to create resolution from nowhere so it would look basically the same.
 

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I'd have to read up on the PS3 and Xbox360, but it didn't sound like all games on those would be at 1080p, and maybe only one system would regularly have it.


One thing to think about, from 720 to 1080p resolution, what will be the main difference in graphics quality be? Unlike the real world that has unlimited detail and texture, where an increase in capture resolution will always bring an improvement, for a game, increasing the resolution will only help to a certan extent.


Probably a big thing in games would be texture resolution. If you took a real HD camera and started getting closer and closer to a brick wall, you'll keep seeing more and more detail, in a game, textures are not unlimited, so at a certain distance they'll no longer show any more detail besides just getting bigger and bigger. So at that point, higher resolution won't help. Though, it might help show more detail in distant textures, but then again textures usually get softer in the distance due to extreme angles because of perspective. AF usually cures this to a certain point, though, who knows what level of AF consoles will use, 4x to 16x, hopefully 8x AF at minimum.


For some games, depending on the draw distance, higher resolution will make overall distant objects sharper, like pinpointing an enemy when around size of a couple pixels, plus makes edges on objects sharper. Hopefully all games will have 2x AA to soften edges so sharper edges won't matter much.


Basically what I'm saying is going from 720p to 1080p for a game might not have as much of an impact as the same thing for real life recordings on tv. It will probably make the game look a bit crisper, sharper, but not so much for near textures. Then how much will this be helpful at a normal viewing distance. Then you might find peformance at 1080p a little poor compared to using 720p, and there might not be that many games that offer it. And who knows, maybe as the hardware ages they'll abandon 1080p all togethor to try and increase visuals to compete with computre advancments.


And speaking about 1080p, how many console owners will even have sets like that? Most will still be on sd tvs, then a small fraction with 720p sets. Will game makers really want to design a game for 1080p when only a few will be able to use it when instead they could reach a bigger market with better performance/graphics at 720p. 720p will probably be a good sweetspot for quality/performance.


It's 5am, so I'm probably rambling.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisutley
I'm looking to buy a E50A10 tomorrow, my only reservation at this point is how will it handle 1080i games from the XBOX 360. If I understand right the TV does 720p native, so I guess it has to up convert 1080i games?


Is there any reasonable way to quantify the difference in quality I'd get from buying one of the new 1080p sets coming out versus this sweet Sony? I'd hate to feel the need to upgrade TV's in 2.5 months because I can't milk my XBOX 360 for all its worth.
Wait for the 1080p set so that you won't have feeling that you need to upgrade knawing at you.
 

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i'm almost sold on the sony 50a10, good price, nice picture. I like the panasonic 52"lcd too. any suggestions or comments. also, when the prices drop on the panasonic plasma's as they're suppose to at the end of the month, what would the 50"50u go for?
 

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I don't know if 1080p is worth the wait. It may become something that never becomes mainstream. Hooking up an xbox 360 to the a10 should look good. I have had an xbox hooked up to 1080i set and a lcd rp set and the pictures were stunning.
 

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Actually, depending on the tv, playing the game at 1080p and letting the tv downsize it to 720p might improve quality over just regular 720p. It would be like a form of AA, I think supersampling on PC, where the graphics rendered larger on purpose then scaled down to smooth everything out.
 

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The Xbox 360 can output at 1080i or 720p. The 360 will do the conversion internally and output to whatever format you want. It does not support 1080p though.
 

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I don't know if the xbox 360 itself will do any conversion at all. The game will be recorded in whatever resolution, and the tv set will convert it to its native resolution.
 

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MS has said you can pick 1080i or 720p in the dash board and it will allways output that selection. For 1080i or 720p tvs that do not scale . Also don't know if it is 1080p but it will output [email protected] via VGA.(though I'll wait for first hand reports of pq)
 

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That's very interesting since you can already do that with the xbox now except it will only output the original resolution of the game on the disc. Where did you read this info? If that's the case what resolution are the games being recorded at? If the new xbox 360 does that, then that means the games are true hd, they are upconverted from a lower resolution which is what upconversion dvd players do now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the feedback folks. I actually ended up bagging the E55A20 today, it's in my living room right now patiently waiting for Time Warner to deliver an HD DVR.


It sounds like the 360 will give me images on this set that will be perfectly acceptable to me, and the E55A20 is at the top end of my budget - I'm not willing to spend more than this on a TV right now.


I'm going to start a new thread regarding some questions about my current XBOX and DVD's on the E55A20.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogbuehi
That's very interesting since you can already do that with the xbox now except it will only output the original resolution of the game on the disc. Where did you read this info? If that's the case what resolution are the games being recorded at? If the new xbox 360 does that, then that means the games are true hd, they are upconverted from a lower resolution which is what upconversion dvd players do now.


3D games are not recorded at resolutions, but maybe designed for optimal performance at a certain resolution when it comes to consoles. Normally on a pc you try to run games at the highest res you can go before performance is effected, or at what you monitor is limited to. On pc you can comprise, if you want to run at a super high res, but performance takes a hit, you can set textures to medium to free memory, object detail, shadows, effects. Also, since not every pc has the same specs, you need those options so people can configure the game to their hardware. Many pc gamers don't like consoles because they don't have enough power or memory to run at decent resolutions ever.


With the new consoles, they'll finally have advance cpus, gpus, and loads of memory to give higher resolutions with AA and AF for better texture detail and soft edges. But unlike pcs, the xbox 360 will always have the same specs, so microsoft just had to set a standard for what the console is capable of, like that 720p or 1080i and make sure the game companies get the their games to perform right at those resolutions, so no need for texture, shadow settings and so on.


Though, if the same game on a console that's limited to 1080i is released to pc, they can run it at whatever res they want, like 2048*1536, or dual monitors, just as long as they have the power. But that's what's nice about these new consoles, they'll only cost a fraction of what a pc would cost until pc hardware seriously advances a couple years down the line.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer4life
Would a 720p game look worse on a 1080p TV than on a 720p TV?


Kinda like SD looks worse on a HDTV than on a plain old CRT
It should look the same as it would on a 720p tv, unless your talking about 100inch TV sitting 10 feet away. If anything it might look a bit softer in a positive way, but probably nothing as bad as if you were to run a regular PC LCD below it's native resolution as RP LCDs are not razor sharp to begin with.


Also, for the opposite, running a game outputting 1080p to a 720p tv might improve graphics, having the tv scale it down to it's resolution will probably enhance edges, making them less jagged, like additional Anti Aliasing. Normal AA, not sure what the consoles will use, don't soften edges in transparent alpha textures, like those transparent textures to do tree leaves, wire fences, grass, etc, so having a 720p tv scale down a 1080p source will in a way add AA to those areas, removing aliasing and shimmers in textures. Recently the only way on pc to do this was to render the game higher-res on purpose and the resize it down to soften the edges, but took too much power to do. Though, the new Nvidia 7800 card has a new AA method to deal with this.
 

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Sorry i need
 

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Three more posts
 

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To properly reply.
 

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(again sorry)

This is from an interview over at teamxbox.com Todd Holmdahl is in charge of hardware for MS(according to the interview)=



TXB: I understand the choice of 720p over 1080i because of the fast-motion action sequences involved in gaming; a progressive scan picture is better than an interlaced one for this case, but lately we have seen more and more 1080p capable displays, especially DLP-based flat screens (although 1080p doesn’t belong to ATSC’s specifications for HDTV). The question is, will the Xbox 360 be able to offer a 1080p signal? Is the Xbox 360 GPU powerful enough to render games up to that resolution at playable framerates?


Todd Holmdahl: Xbox 360 offers choice for both the game developer and the end consumer. The game developer can create their game in any resolution. The consumer can request any output resolution (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). The Xbox 360’s advanced video scaler will scale the game’s native resolution to the end consumer’s requested resolution with extremely high quality output. Bottom line, the games will look amazing.


Xbox 360 does not support 1080p at this time. It’s an incremental improvement at an astronomical expense, and we don’t see consumers clamoring for 1080p TVs yet. We will continue evaluate the market and deliver the capability when and if customers want it.


As for the GPU, the Xbox 360 has the most powerful GPU of any gaming console; even better, we made specific design choices to enable game developers to render real-time complex scenes at high resolutions with high-quality anti-aliasing. Without our Embedded DRAM on the GPU and the huge 256Gbyes/second dedicated bus from the GPU core to the EDRAM, it is impossible to render true next-generation scene complexity at high-resolution with anti-aliasing.
 
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