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Yep. Read that. I don't like this. I really wanted the HDD to be a standard thing on the XBOX 360 so that developers could utilize it. Now it seems it will only be used for game saves, downloadable content, and whatever media options they want to use on it. The article also mentions about another concern of mine, and that is the 360 coming out later with a possible HD DVD drive. This new information definitely makes me feel better about deciding to wait on the 360 as I don't want to buy the hardware and later find a new model of it that I'd rather have. I waited on the original GBA and I was glad I did, as the SP is leaps and bounds better. I guess I will be waiting on the 360 as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeJean
Yep. Read that. I don't like this. I really wanted the HDD to be a standard thing on the XBOX 360 so that developers could utilize it. Now it seems it will only be used for game saves, downloadable content, and whatever media options they want to use on it. The article also mentions about another concern of mine, and that is the 360 coming out later with a possible HD DVD drive. This new information definitely makes me feel better about deciding to wait on the 360 as I don't want to buy the hardware and later find a new model of it that I'd rather have. I waited on the original GBA and I was glad I did, as the SP is leaps and bounds better. I guess I will be waiting on the 360 as well.
I agree. This is a recipe for failure.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeJean
Yep. Read that. I don't like this. I really wanted the HDD to be a standard thing on the XBOX 360 so that developers could utilize it. Now it seems it will only be used for game saves, downloadable content, and whatever media options they want to use on it.


This news about the HD not always being there has been common knowledge for quite a while. Developers have said that while they have to make games work if the HD isn't there, they can also use the HD for streaming, chache, etc. Since the HD is detachable, they can't make games assuming people will have it there. My main concern is the latest rumor that the 360 will launch with 2 SKU's. The one without the HD being $299. We'll all know on wednesday.
 

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Quote:
Yep. Read that. I don't like this. I really wanted the HDD to be a standard thing on the XBOX 360 so that developers could utilize it. Now it seems it will only be used for game saves, downloadable content, and whatever media options they want to use on it. The article also mentions about another concern of mine, and that is the 360 coming out later with a possible HD DVD drive.
Ditto, my sentiments exactly. It won't stop me from getting a day one 360 though. Ultimately I believe the games on the 360 and PS3 will have a general quality that won't really depend on any of these additional hardware factors.


It does appear that MS is not sure what they are going to do about the HD DVD thing yet. I wonder if they feel that the HD doesn't add enough value once they add an HD DVD drive?


That would kind of support the PS3's approach except the PS3 is always packing in the blu ray drive which means MS wants to have the lower cost alternative model to make sure they can get the pricing advantage down the line.
 

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I guess I can see them releasing some slim-line 360 down the road to save a buck but the hard drive is at the top of my list for reasons to own xbox.

needless to say I don't like the sound of this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
my top reason is for games but yes I do wish that they would just be consistant. as stated earlier, I'd hate to buy one version to find out 3months down the road a better version would be available.
 

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Just had a thought here............I wondering if they're planning on releasing the Xbox 360 without the HD bundled in certain markets, right off the bat? Like Japan for instance?


This would allow them to price the units lower initially and potentially build their install base in Japan faster. They'd could always sell the hard disk seperately.


Makes sense to me, especially since the PS3 will not ship with an HD either. And I presume the adoption rate of the Xbox live service is likely to be much slower over there, which is what the HD is really going to be put to use with anyway.
 

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This is a bad idea, but then everyone but J. Allard knows this.


When Bungie needs the HD for Halo 3 this idea will die a horrible (But well deserved) death.


MS is going to need any and every advantage against the PS3, properly utilizing the HD will probably be the best they have.
 

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Don't most Xbox Live games require an occasional update? How would this be possible without a hard drive?
 

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Originally Posted by chris5977
Don't most Xbox Live games require an occasional update? How would this be possible without a hard drive?


Well the updates out there now would not dent the 64M cards MS plans for 360...


Still a bad idea however. Not as bad as no HD for next gen, but bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
since the xbox360 and ps3 will have the ability for a hard drive..


Can developers code games to work both ways, with a hard drive and also without? I'm guessing the hard drive might just reduce some of the loading situations, but not sure what else.
 

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They certainly could, but considering the already HIGH development costs it would be unlikely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
so in the case of games like Oblivion and others that are said to work with Caching to the Hard drive, would that meant they flat out would not function if the hard drive was removed?
 

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briankmonkey: depending on how you take it the answer could be yes. I am sure developers (without any real cost ) can make a game installable to HDD, where the game is benefiting from the faster drive when uploading new data but nothing else. The issue is that if there is a big difference in speed of a HDD and DVD (or BR) a game developer cannot bank on that faster speed for streaming data while playing. Think of it this way, if you want to fill a pool, will it be filled faster if you pull the hose to the pool, or if you fill up a bucket that you then bring to the pool to fill it.
 

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The 360 HD is removeable - in the curent Game Informer Allard even makes the comment that the hard drive may be taken somewhere else, but Microsoft wanted to ensure that games would still be playable on the machine.


Also, he specifically mentioned background loading for streaming data as needed. I am not sure what other issues people are having. Clearly if the HD has been removed downloaded content on that drive would not be available, but otherwise the system will work.


This wasn't addressed in the article, but in my estimation if Microsoft needs to compete against an aggressively priced system without an included HD they need the flexibility to sell a minimal version that will work.
 

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The possibility that future X-box 360 consoles might not have a hard drive certainly explains why developers have been told to make their games runnable without the hard drive. Also developers can use the hard drive for data caching as long as they also make the game so that it can run without it. Though some have commented that it will be more expensive to do that I can see most AAA games being made in that way. Also since the X-box 360 has 512 MB of RAM that will at least give some space for data caching even if a game never uses the hard drive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
Can developers code games to work both ways, with a hard drive and also without? I'm guessing the hard drive might just reduce some of the loading situations, but not sure what else.
I'd put money on the fact that MS has addressed this in their development toolkits specifically so developers don't have to. I have no idea how this works of course, but perhaps an API has been provided that the developers can call to confirm the presence of the HD, among other things. This, or another API, would then enable them to access features such as HD caching, in game soundtracks, etc, if one is found.


I've read somewhere that MS has made interfacing with the features and functions of the Xbox 360 a lot more transparent to developers than it was for even the Xbox. Therefore, I'd be very surprised if developers have to code specifically around HD availability scenarios for every game themselves.
 

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Richard713 said:
The 360 HD is removeable - in the curent Game Informer Allard even makes the comment that the hard drive may be taken somewhere else, but Microsoft wanted to ensure that games would still be playable on the machine.

QUOTE]


Finally someone is seeing outside of the box. I wouldn't worry about buying an Xbox360 and being left out of any chance of adding an HDD. Since the thing is removable, I'm sure it would be easy to add one on. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if you could upgrade to a larger storage one.


Remember that PS2 later added a network adapter and HDD after launch. Didn't seem to hurt their sales too much.
 

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But add ons are NEVER successful. The network adaptor and HDD for PS2 never sold much, and as such are not utilized much. The hard drive is one of the things that makes the xbox so great, without it, it will not matter if it is available. Even if you buy it, nothing will take advantage of it.
 
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