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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought about adding this to the "Disappointed in Xbox graphics" thread, but I wanted to explain my configuration to see if anyone else finds the same or not. I run my Xbox with the hi-def pack, but into a Holo3Dgraph card in my HTPC, then to a front pj on 106" screen, this means that I dont use any of the progressive display outputs, only 480i and 1080i are enabled. I find that my PS2 through S-video is sharper, and I run my DVD into the same component inputs on the H3D card, and it looks sharp on DVD menus and text, so I am pretty sure it is not the HTPC that is giving the blurry look. I find it is most noticeable on games like Unreal but some others as well. Does anyone else find the Xbox image to be very soft on a fp system, or is there anyone else that uses a fp but not progressive resolutions? Would I see a great improvement by running some component cables up to the pj and using the progressive inputs? The only problem with doing this is that I lose my on-screen-display that I have created on my HTPC. Any input is welcome, thanks!
 

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Warren_G,


OK, I'm not alone in this. I run my XBox s-video through a line-doubler and get the same results - the image is quite soft on my projector as well. I've been hesitant to get a transcoder and try the progressive output because it might not be any better - and I'd be out $400. The thing that bugs me is that I can get a crystal-clear image out of my GameCube using a VGA cable mod. I'd LOVE to get that out of the XBox.


I'm curious, does the Holo3D card not capture 480p?


Also, anyone ever compared a transcoder to a line-doubler using the XBox? If so, which is sharper?


Thanks,

Shawn
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The Holo3D card can only accept interlaced resolutions, it feeds everything into the Faroudja chip and gives you the choice to deinterlace it or not, but it cannot take a progressive input at all.
 

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Dylan,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Holy crap that KD-XB went down in price fast. Just a few months ago it was $200.

I'm curious as to what you used as a scaler. Also, you say textures are sharper. How about things like text? Any notable difference?


Warren, that's a bummer about the interlaced-only input. I remember now why I passed on that option when looking for a solution for my CRT PJ. At the price of the KD transcoder, I might give it a try.


Shawn
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have to admit that not accepting progressive input does not seem like a limitation as the DCDi on the H3D is probably superior to what is in either my DVD player or the pj itself. It does a wonderful job of displaying DVD and even satellite over S-video. Which is why I wondered if anyone else had found this specifically with the xbox. The only shortcoming this has is that progressive material must be interlaced and then deinterlaced again. Considering that, it does look great on the big screen for almost every source.


Looking at the KD-XB, it looks like it might be an option, I notice it has VGA connectors on the end, but it says RGB. I know I should know this stuff by now, but is this to connect to a VGA monitor? If so, then maybe I could try one of these on the VGA out to my fp from the Radeon 9700pro in my HTPC, which would give me seamless switching.
 

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I remember reading a thread not so long ago that said progressive outputs from the Xbox, and progressive outputs from a dvd player are different. It said that the progressive from the Xbox is far superior, so if you can do it, you should.


Go to this site to see the huge difference of 720/1080i from the Xbox compared to 480i...
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/paulgun/xbox/video/
 

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That was really neat. 1080i makes a workd of difference in Dirk-detail!
 

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The Xbox has the equivalent of a computer graphics card to process the video signal. I would guess that it has some sort of post processor, like a TV-out section, to produce an interlaced image. When you use the progressive out you are getting the unadulterated output of the graphics card. I don't think it matters how good your downstream deinterlacer is as the image has already been compromised. 480p is significantly better than s-video on my X1.
 

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Jim is correct. It is possible to perfectly deinterlace a film based DVD. But that can't be done with a videogame running at 60 fps. In the case of the XBox, the video encoder is throwing away half of resolution each frame to output 480i. Your deinterlacer has to guess at the missing information.


Shawn, my comparisons were with a Radeon/H3D HTPC feeding a NEC 9PG+. In an overall sense, it was sharper. Picking out specific things, it was the textures that showed the most improvement. Small, distant details like crowds in sports games looked better also. Surprisingly, I didn't notice much difference in jaggies. I guess Faroudja's DCDI really does work. I don't recall noticing a difference in text. I would guess that text is designed to be legible on even the worst RF connections so it's pretty big and blocky as is.


-Dylan
 

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Hey guys,

Thanks for your input.


Jonny5nz,

That's an interesting link. However, I'm skeptical of the quality of his TV's de-interlacer/scaler. Nonetheless, it seems like the XBox progressive output might be a different (and far superior) piece of hardware altogether, as opposed to the interlaced output hardware.


Dylan,

Thanks for your input. What were you comparing? HTPC vs DVD player and line-doubler? Have you used a transcoder? Essentially, my goal is to find out if the KD-XB transcoder will outperform my iScan Pro line-doubler significantly.


Thanks,

Shawn
 
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