AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I noticed high end pre/pro's and multi-channel amps have XLR terminals. What exactly are XLR input/output terminals? What is the benifit of having them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
XLR is a connector commonly used to terminate balanced audio cables. It's really a better connection type, as balanced runs reject noise better. The connector itself is also more sturdy, and locks to the terminal with a spring clip rather than just gripping onto it like an RCA, so it's more secure as well as being gentler on the jack and easier to connect/disconnect. The noise usually isn't an issue in home setups though, due to the short runs, and I believe it's also more expensive to implement into the device. So, it's mostly just used for pro audio gear and very high-end home gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
So there wouldn't likely be a difference in sound quality?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,866 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt /forum/post/14154671


I noticed high end pre/pro's and multi-channel amps have XLR terminals. What exactly are XLR input/output terminals? What is the benifit of having them?

From what also i've been told is they benefit in audio regardless of length.Best solution, as the post before me says locks in well also mind you RCA can lock in good to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful Goat /forum/post/14154820


... The noise usually isn't an issue in home setups though, due to the short runs, and I believe it's also more expensive to implement into the device. So, it's mostly just used for pro audio gear and very high-end home gear.

The professional world uses XLR even for short runs. Remember every cable is an antenna. You go with balanced connectors for their superior sound quality. The main question is are you dedicated to achieving superior sound quality?

After years of personal experience I recommend the Audio Technica microphone cable for about $12 each:


Link is not exact. Do a Google of "audio technica premium microphone cable"
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/ca...f2c/index.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,709 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin /forum/post/14155178


From what also i've been told is they benefit in audio regardless of length.

From what I've heard(!), it generally makes no difference at all. Under certain conditions, the advantage can go either way.

Quote:
Best solution, as the post before me says locks in well also mind you RCA can lock in good to.

Yeah. I like the XLRs for lots of swapping that I do.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,866 Posts

From what I've heard(!), it generally makes no difference at all. Under certain conditions, the advantage can go either way.


./QUOTE]


Thats right! I have to admit I use cheap $9.95 cables between my AVP/POA.The sound is absolutley sensational.One member asked me that why did I go cheap? wouldn't it affect the quality of sound? I told him if it did I would of changed them straight away but it didn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/14155535


From what I've heard(!), it generally makes no difference at all. Under certain conditions, the advantage can go either way.


Yeah. I like the XLRs for lots of swapping that I do.

Maybe you should talk to JA and learn about common mode rejection ratio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,923 Posts
Nothing to it, it's -


CMMR = 20 log10 [ Ad / ABS( As) ]


Ad = Differential Gain

As = Common mode gain
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,709 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/14159283


Maybe you should talk to JA and learn about common mode rejection ratio.

And what would I learn? Common mode rejection is only an issue if there is significant noise to reject. Under those conditions, rare in domestic systems, there is an advantage, as I implied.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,863 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/14159553


And what would I learn? Common mode rejection is only an issue if there is significant noise to reject. Under those conditions, rare in domestic systems, there is an advantage, as I implied.

I agree; it's very, very rarely an issue in consumer systems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/14159553


And what would I learn? Common mode rejection is only an issue if there is significant noise to reject. Under those conditions, rare in domestic systems, there is an advantage, as I implied.

Electrical interference, grounding and shielding are important everywhere in a audio system. This is the one advantage that all-in-one receivers have over components: everything being contained physically and electrically all in one chassis.


Does your cell phone work next to your gear? Do you live within range of Mega power TV transmitters? Do all components have the exact same ground potential? How far is the typical subwoofer located from the A/V controller?

Are A/C power cables typically located near signal cables? Does a typical systems S/N ratio ever approach an individual components? Like -120db?


These are some of the reasons why I've consistently found optical SPD/IF cables to offer superior audible performance as compared to coaxial. Coaxial cable may seem to offer more resolution (in actuality it lends an edge) but only on non-optimized systems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,709 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/14159882


Electrical interference, grounding and shielding are important everywhere in a audio system. This is the one advantage that all-in-one receivers have over components: everything being contained physically and electrically all in one chassis.


Does your cell phone work next to your gear? Do you live within range of Mega power TV transmitters? Do all components have the exact same ground potential? How far is the typical subwoofer located from the A/V controller?

Are A/C power cables typically located near signal cables? Does a typical systems S/N ratio ever approach an individual components? Like -120db?


These are some of the reasons why I've consistently found optical SPD/IF cables to offer superior audible performance as compared to coaxial. Coaxial cable may seem to offer more resolution (in actuality it lends an edge) but only on non-optimized systems.

Well, there's certainly a lot to worry about, isn't there? All those problems are possible.


However, in my two systems in two different locations, none of these has posed any problems since I installed dedicated AC and took just a little care with cable arrangements. If any did raise their ugly heads, then I would have to deal with them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,866 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/14159882


Electrical interference, grounding and shielding are important everywhere in a audio system. This is the one advantage that all-in-one receivers have over components: everything being contained physically and electrically all in one chassis.


Does your cell phone work next to your gear? Do you live within range of Mega power TV transmitters? Do all components have the exact same ground potential? How far is the typical subwoofer located from the A/V controller?

Are A/C power cables typically located near signal cables? Does a typical systems S/N ratio ever approach an individual components? Like -120db?


These are some of the reasons why I've consistently found optical SPD/IF cables to offer superior audible performance as compared to coaxial. Coaxial cable may seem to offer more resolution (in actuality it lends an edge) but only on non-optimized systems.


I have my sub close the av controller and have not encountered any problems at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,494 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate /forum/post/14155358


The professional world uses XLR even for short runs. Remember every cable is an antenna. You go with balanced connectors for their superior sound quality. The main question is are you dedicated to achieving superior sound quality?

The professional world uses XLRs for all runs because all the connectors on the equipment are balanced. All the connectors on the equipment are balanced because the equipment designers need to accommodate long runs. That's all.


As long as the shield is grounded, every cable is a shielded antenna, which is not a very effective antenna.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,741 Posts
a good paper from arcam here re xlr and balanced connections

http://www.arcam.co.uk/downloads/fin...%20balance.pdf


for balanced equipment to have full benefit all equipment used together needs to be true balanced designs. true blanced designs in audio are rare as hens teeth. in many cases its jsut blanced connectors used and the equipment itself is not trully blanced.


as to benefit in the audio environment having owned and used both blanced and unbalanced gear and connections. unless your running big long lengths as in pre setups and unless your system environment is as noisey as PA setups used by the pros then its probably unlikely your going to get much benefit if any !


and using xlrs isnt necessarily the holy grail for reducing noise floor either if there is a mismatch between gear or poor implementations it can jsut as easily introduce hum to the circuit which can be bloody hard to remove !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Balanced is nice if your equipment supports/ calls for it.. while the extra sheilding is nice, another improvement is the inclusion of a true cold signal that is independent of the ground.


The processing once the connection has been made is pretty cool too.. the differance of the cold and hot signals get's amplified.. so you cancel out any noise that may have gotten picked up on the way.


I use balanced from my preamp to the amp, but they are balanced amps, so the cold and hot signals travel independent thought the amp and combine at the speaker for some nice push/pull action.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,061 Posts
I've looked into the ground and shielding techniques of both XLR cables (and connectors) and the gear. Nothing much is standardized so some systems will still behave in a non-optimal manner. Ok, pin 2 is usually hot but read the Rane white papers...


As Blue points out signal ground should be kept separate of shield ground in any cable. A ground is at the same potential only at the same physical point, especially in a cables shield.

I also don't care that many balanced cables offer **ONLY** and less than 95% braid shielding. This allows RF frequencies to walk-right-in as their wavelength is very short.


So give the Audio Technica cables a spin and let me know what you guys think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,863 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau /forum/post/14163070


a good paper from arcam here re xlr and balanced connections

http://www.arcam.co.uk/downloads/fin...%20balance.pdf


for balanced equipment to have full benefit all equipment used together needs to be true balanced designs. true blanced designs in audio are rare as hens teeth. in many cases its jsut blanced connectors used and the equipment itself is not trully blanced.


as to benefit in the audio environment having owned and used both blanced and unbalanced gear and connections. unless your running big long lengths as in pre setups and unless your system environment is as noisey as PA setups used by the pros then its probably unlikely your going to get much benefit if any !


and using xlrs isnt necessarily the holy grail for reducing noise floor either if there is a mismatch between gear or poor implementations it can jsut as easily introduce hum to the circuit which can be bloody hard to remove !

Well, that paper really doesn't say much.


What do you define "true balanced" as? To get high CMRR (i.e., common-mode noise rejection), the input needs to be a precision differential circuit (or a transformer), and the two legs of the balanced signal line must see identical impedances to ground or earth. The signal legs do not have to carry mirror-image balanced signals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,892 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt /forum/post/14154671


I noticed high end pre/pro's and multi-channel amps have XLR terminals. What exactly are XLR input/output terminals? What is the benifit of having them?


All Professional Audio setups from Mastering to live Concerts use XLR connections because of their lower noise floor as stated above..
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top