AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello guys.

I just got the new x550. I own a hs350.

I played with the new xr550 for about 1 hour.


My first impressions of the xr550 vs the hs350 are :


1) IA xr550 vs IA hs350 :


it seems to me that the IA xr550 can NOT turn off the face detection, while in the panny you can turn it off when in IA


2) The xr550 backlight option sucks in comparison to the one on the hs350 (both cameras set in IA mode).

If I put a strong light source behind my face, the panny lights up my face a lot nad my face is cristal and clear. On the sony instead this does NOT happen. My head is dark and you can not see it compared to the source of light behind me....


3) The panny can keep recording when , after hitting the rec button, we close both the lcd and the viewfinder.


The Sony, instead, can not do that. When we close the lcd and the viewfinder the camcorder stop recording. It does not matter that we hit the record button before.


To note is that on the panny the low light mode was on in IA, while on the xr550 was off. I have to try to enable the low light in the sony in auto and see if the baclight works better on sony


These are preliminary tests. It may happrn that I change ideas.

Be in contact for more feedbacks


tx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,075 Posts
Can you try to see if the low light capabilities of the HS350 will be even better if you disable intelligent Contrast.


Can you compare the auto focusing between the 2 cameras.


Just in case some people don't know, the HS350 is the successor of the HS300 which never got released in the US.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira /forum/post/18290466


Can you try to see if the low light capabilities of the HS350 will be even better if you disable intelligent Contrast.

In general, I can tell you right now , that the sony is better in low light.

I mean, the hs350 oversaturate all the colors and add a lot of noise to its videos.

The xr550, has instead real looking colors and no noise.


For your question, why u think that disabling the intelligent contrast te low light videos would e better?


What do u man for intelligent contrast? Do u mean the backlight compensation, or turning off the IA and put the camera in AUTO ?


This is comparing how the images appears on both the LCD, when I walk in my kitchen in pitch dark, with a light coming from the back from the restroom.

I would say 1 lux.

The sony seems better.

Anyway I will try to record some vids tomorrow night and post them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira /forum/post/18290466


Can you compare the auto focusing between the 2 cameras.

Can u give me an example of which video or how you would like that handle both cameras to show the auto focusing abilities ?


Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18290439


3) The panny can keep recording when , after hitting the rec button, we close both the lcd and the viewfinder.


The Sony, instead, can not do that. When we close the lcd and the viewfinder the camcorder stop recording. It does not matter that we hit the record button before.

I understand the need to be able to close the LCD to preserve battery power and run only on the viewfinder, but to be able to record without any kind of monitoring (aka not even the viewfinder) isn't that useful IMO. I actually see the Sony behavior more as a consumer feature, since you can use the LCD as a power switch, which it looks like you can't on the Panny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18290733


Can u give me an example of which video or how you would like that handle both cameras to show the auto focusing abilities ?

Thank you

Maybe something like crazy thunder did on these two posts?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post18267874
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post18265874


Well... from his posts, we know how the 550 behaves. But personally, I would be curious to see how the Panny does under similar conditions (especially in low-light fast full zooms cases).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,075 Posts
Well I wasn't really trying to get you to compare it to the Sony. I've heard at least once that if you change a thing or 2, the low light capabilities gets better at least in the HS250. i know the GH1 gets a bit better and I'm wondering if it's really true about Panasonic camcorders.


Still, the real interesting thing to see is how much better the TM700 really is since it has a new imaging engine, a faster lens and a better stabilizer. If only I have access to all of the prior generation and newer generation camcorders.


Anyway thanks for your observations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericjut /forum/post/18290777


I understand the need to be able to close the LCD to preserve battery power and run only on the viewfinder, but to be able to record without any kind of monitoring (aka not even the viewfinder) isn't that useful IMO. I actually see the Sony behavior more as a consumer feature, since you can use the LCD as a power switch, which it looks like you can't on the Panny.

Actually the LCD on the panny can function as power switch if you just remember to hit again the recording butto to turn off the recording session
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
936 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18290439


Hello guys.


1) IA xr550 vs IA hs350 :


it seems to me that the IA xr550 can NOT turn off the face detection, while in the panny you can turn it off when in IA


...


3) The panny can keep recording when , after hitting the rec button, we close both the lcd and the viewfinder.


The Sony, instead, can not do that. When we close the lcd and the viewfinder the camcorder stop recording. It does not matter that we hit the record button before.

tx

Just a couple of things to check in case these work:


1. Have you turned Face Detection off and then tried the IA mode? It sounds like you have, but just in case... I wouldn't have expected IA to override that setting, but maybe it really needs to be defined that way from a "scene detection and making choices" standpoint. I would think they could program it either way, though.


2. Filming with the LCD closed. I haven't tried this on my cam (CX500V) but I did remember you could defeat the "power comes on when LCD opens" setting. It's called "Power on by LCD" in the CX500V manual and the description says "The camcorder does not turn on and off when the LCD screen opens and closes." This seems to imply that it might keep filming with the LCD closed if you disabled the auto-on feature...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Gull /forum/post/18292785


Just a couple of things to check in case these work:


1. Have you turned Face Detection off and then tried the IA mode? It sounds like you have, but just in case... I wouldn't have expected IA to override that setting, but maybe it really needs to be defined that way from a "scene detection and making choices" standpoint. I would think they could program it either way, though.


2. Filming with the LCD closed. I haven't tried this on my cam (CX500V) but I did remember you could defeat the "power comes on when LCD opens" setting. It's called "Power on by LCD" in the CX500V manual and the description says "The camcorder does not turn on and off when the LCD screen opens and closes." This seems to imply that it might keep filming with the LCD closed if you disabled the auto-on feature...

Hi, thanks for the reply.


For 1. unfortunatelly the IA, override all the manual controll. So everything (include face detect) is on .


For 2. I can not find anything about this option. Can u pls check in your camera and see under which menu is so that I could try to find it on the xr550?


thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
936 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18293929


Hi, thanks for the reply.


For 2. I can not find anything about this option. Can u pls check in your camera and see under which menu is so that I could try to find it on the xr550?


thank you

In the manual, search for "Power On by LCD".


The CX500V manual shows this under the Power menu, then the General Set menu. It's in the same menu as "A. Shut Off" (Auto Shut-off).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Gull /forum/post/18295110


In the manual, search for "Power On by LCD".


The CX500V manual shows this under the Power menu, then the General Set menu. It's in the same menu as "A. Shut Off" (Auto Shut-off).

I can disconnect power from the LCD on my CX300 in the same menu as Tom is describing for the CX500. It's in the menu called "Power Settings".


Situations where you want to record with the LCD shut include filming with the camera affixed to a moving vehicle or boat, and when the camera is housed in the Sony waterproof case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
IUnder that menu, there is no option that tells me to shut down the lcd.


Anyway, I am leaning toward the idea of maybe returning the xr550.


The more I play with it, the more I get the idea that the panny is better in low light.

Where the panny see colors and images, the sony see pitch black.

Yes the sony wins for the no noise, but in some situations, I can give get a footage with the sony. At least with panny I can see something....

I may return the sony and buy the new panny instead...I am so confused. I am not sure what to do...


thank you guys
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
936 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18305709


IUnder that menu, there is no option that tells me to shut down the lcd.


Anyway, I am leaning toward the idea of maybe returning the xr550.


The more I play with it, the more I get the idea that the panny is better in low light.

Where the panny see colors and images, the sony see pitch black.

Yes the sony wins for the no noise, but in some situations, I can give get a footage with the sony. At least with panny I can see something....

I may return the sony and buy the new panny instead...I am so confused. I am not sure what to do...


thank you guys

I just looked at the 550 manual (links posted in another thread). You're absolutely right - that menu choice is gone in this model. However, take a look at page 16 and I think you'll see what you want. If the LCD is closed but the Viewfinder is pulled out, the power will remain on.


You must be talking about really low light filming with the Sony seeing pitch black. Or some setting is wrong. I've never seen anything like that. If you're down to no light, you'd turn on the Nightshot, of course (infrared). But we'd need more detail on what you're filming to help with this, I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am talking at about 1 lux.

The panny has vivid colors but with noise.

The sony see dark faces.

I use IA, so I guess the low light / slow shutter function is on. I want the slow shutter on.


The backlight compensation sucks.

The panny bright up the faces.

The sony doesn't.


I have to post some vids.

Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
936 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18306031


I am talking at about 1 lux.

The panny has vivid colors but with noise.

The sony see dark faces.

I use IA, so I guess the low light / slow shutter function is on. I want the slow shutter on.


The backlight compensation sucks.

The panny bright up the faces.

The sony doesn't.


I have to post some vids.

Thank you

I have no idea what you would film at one lux that would make that the deciding factor among camcorders. But if that's where you spend the bulk of your time filming, choose the cam that works best for you there. I personally don't like noise, colorful or not. But I also don't film that low, and if I did, I'd have NightShot on. Your usage just sounds totally different than mine so you just need to choose and not worry about what other people report or like.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
These are 2 low light videos for comparing the sony xr550 and the panny hs350.

On both cameras the IA was ON, so I guess that the low light slow shutter was on on both camcorders.

Unfortunatelly the videos were shot upside-down.

Sorry about that, but it was the only way for me to hold both cameras in place.

I may try to shot the same videos NOT upside down, but it would take a while for me to do it, so please start looking and comparing these 2 videos and share your ideas.

Thank you


xr550

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NYX7MWQ4


vs


hs350

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B9UPZ7JH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
936 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcolisi /forum/post/18309188


These are 2 low light videos for comparing the sony xr550 and the panny hs350.

On both cameras the IA was ON, so I guess that the low light slow shutter was on on both camcorders.

Unfortunatelly the videos were shot upside-down.

Sorry about that, but it was the only way for me to hold both cameras in place.

I may try to shot the same videos NOT upside down, but it would take a while for me to do it, so please start looking and comparing these 2 videos and share your ideas.

Thank you


xr550

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NYX7MWQ4


vs


hs350

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B9UPZ7JH

I'm going to gently suggest that you really need to read the manuals in depth. You're posting questions that are answered in the manuals, and guessing wrong in many cases. For example, the manual on p. 27 of the Handycam Handbook clearly indicates which features are reset to their default values when Intelligent Auto is on. Low Lux is one of them, and its default is "off". So if you had IA on, you were using normal exposure as opposed to Low Lux (LL sets the shutter speed for very low light conditions). So these particular video clips would be apples and oranges examples. To test that, explicitly set the Sony cam to Low Lux mode with IA off and see if that makes a difference.


IA generally is detailed on pp. 26 and 27 and isn't exactly what I thought it would be. I assumed it was the equivalent of saying "figure out the best scenario and use it and maybe tweak a few more items". But it sounds more like an "easy mode" from the past and not a replacement for selecting the right filming scenario in total. The manual says IA uses the optimum settings for Face Detection, scene detection, and camera-shake detection. On the Face Detection side, it shows IA making a choice between Portrait and Baby modes; for scene detection, between Backlight, Landscape, Twilight, Spotlight, low light, and macro; for Camera-shake, between Walking and Tripod. Then the manual lists a lot of settings that will take the cam out of IA if you use them. It notes at the bottom of that list that the above settings are reset to their defaults when IA is turned on.


The bottom line for me on this feature is "experiment a lot, it will work great for you in some cases but is no substitute for choosing more specific settings or scenes if you know you can get better results out of the cam". From this description, I'd probably rarely use IA as opposed to having the cam on regular auto settings, selecting scenes directly myself, or making manual tweaks. I don't do a lot of people videography and routinely have Face Detection off; the scenes it lists are ones I'd select directly; and I definitely know in a clip whether or not I have the cam on a tripod or if I'm walking. I think the term implies it will give you the best filming most of the time, but the details don't seem to say the same thing for the way I film, at least.


Thanks to the person who posted the manual links in another thread. SonyStyle doesn't seem to have the model in the Support area yet, and there are some little surprises here and there in the manuals - things you think mean one thing but are a little different, or things that are simply design choices you didn't see coming, like having the LCD powering off the cam being defeated by having the viewfinder extended, which makes good sense. I don't have the cam so it's nice to read the details anyway. Having the CX500V manuals available before I purchased that cam was definitely a plus in the buying decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Gull /forum/post/18309346


I'm going to gently suggest that you really need to read the manuals in depth. You're posting questions that are answered in the manuals, and guessing wrong in many cases. For example, the manual on p. 27 of the Handycam Handbook clearly indicates which features are reset to their default values when Intelligent Auto is on. Low Lux is one of them, and its default is "off". So if you had IA on, you were using normal exposure as opposed to Low Lux (LL sets the shutter speed for very low light conditions). So these particular video clips would be apples and oranges examples. To test that, explicitly set the Sony cam to Low Lux mode with IA off and see if that makes a difference.


IA generally is detailed on pp. 26 and 27 and isn't exactly what I thought it would be. I assumed it was the equivalent of saying "figure out the best scenario and use it and maybe tweak a few more items". But it sounds more like an "easy mode" from the past and not a replacement for selecting the right filming scenario in total. The manual says IA uses the optimum settings for Face Detection, scene detection, and camera-shake detection. On the Face Detection side, it shows IA making a choice between Portrait and Baby modes; for scene detection, between Backlight, Landscape, Twilight, Spotlight, low light, and macro; for Camera-shake, between Walking and Tripod. Then the manual lists a lot of settings that will take the cam out of IA if you use them. It notes at the bottom of that list that the above settings are reset to their defaults when IA is turned on.


The bottom line for me on this feature is "experiment a lot, it will work great for you in some cases but is no substitute for choosing more specific settings or scenes if you know you can get better results out of the cam". From this description, I'd probably rarely use IA as opposed to having the cam on regular auto settings, selecting scenes directly myself, or making manual tweaks. I don't do a lot of people videography and routinely have Face Detection off; the scenes it lists are ones I'd select directly; and I definitely know in a clip whether or not I have the cam on a tripod or if I'm walking. I think the term implies it will give you the best filming most of the time, but the details don't seem to say the same thing for the way I film, at least.


Thanks to the person who posted the manual links in another thread. SonyStyle doesn't seem to have the model in the Support area yet, and there are some little surprises here and there in the manuals - things you think mean one thing but are a little different, or things that are simply design choices you didn't see coming, like having the LCD powering off the cam being defeated by having the viewfinder extended, which makes good sense. I don't have the cam so it's nice to read the details anyway. Having the CX500V manuals available before I purchased that cam was definitely a plus in the buying decision.

sorry, u are right.

I am going to upload the right file for the sony camcorder. I am going tu turn off the IA and turn on low light.

Anyway I did it and the video looks much better now. Like u said that was the problem. I was comparing low light active vs low light off.


I re-recorded the videos again.

It will take a while to re-upload them again.

Now , looking at thesony video with low light on, I am changing my mind again...maybe I am going to keep the xr550....


thank you

check back this thread again

I will post the videos for your review.

The videos that you are going to see show exactly the conditions at which I record, passing from sufficient light to very dim light to the oposite.


tx
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top