AVS Forum banner

3501 - 3520 of 5361 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
Yamaha 3070 with atmos and outdoor speakers

Can I run a 5.1.4 plus 2 outdoor speakers and 1 garage speaker on this receiver alone? If not, how do I achieve this setup?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,714 Posts
I'm currently looking at a new Receiver to replace my aging Yamaha HTR-5960 (currently using an external HDMI switchbox with optical return with it).

Sorry if any of this has been asked before (don't have time to read 117 pages right now). Can you choose which channels with which to use an external amplifier or must it be the L/R mains? I'm thinking I don't need a big amp a set of surround speakers, but if I had to use one with the mains, I'd need more power than the receiver would have supplied or it's making them worse (i.e. I see Yamaha selling the newest version ad talking about using a better amp for the stereo main channels, implying it's an audiophile kind of thing... I just want 11.2 surround. I have a higher-end music system upstairs (Carver Ribbons).

What's the story with the speaker placement in terms of Height/Top? I'll likely be using high mounted presence speakers (ala dialog lift) plus my existing high mounted side surrounds (same height) along with new ear level side surrounds and ear level rear surrounds. I know what Dolby wants/recommends, but my ceiling is only 7 feet high and I don't like/want bounce speakers or ceiling speakers (this setup probably more closely resembles Auro 3D's 9.1/11.1 setup). The side walls are the short distance, however and I can't imagine it being that big of a deal to move a speaker from high wall to ceiling less than two feet higher.

What I'm getting at is if I told the Yamaha I had "height" speakers for front/middle or front/back here, is it going to ignore these speakers in Atmos mode because Dolby doesn't want "height" speakers? If you tell it "top", would it not use dialog lift mode with the speakers since it thinks they're not "presence/height" speakers? Is there more than one setting per mode available? Basically, I don't want to buy something that isn't going to do what I want it to do only because Dolby takes themselves too seriously (any company that recommends "bounce" speakers that generally don't work since sound isn't like a light reflection and you can still hear where the sound is really coming from unless it's totally blocked) over the above ear-height side mounted monopoles and even bipoles they used to recommend is already being dishonest or lazy, IMO. It's like they don't care if it will work at home or not for any given room.

It makes way more sense, IMO to simply add lower speakers for low/high than redesign the wheel. I'm afraid Auro 3D has the best layout in this regard. I can't help but wonder if them beating Atmos to the punch in the theaters (AFAIK) has something to do with Dolby's rather odd choice to go "ceiling only" when high wall makes more sense at home, particularly when most homes don't have 9 foot ceilings and many homes now have cathedral ceilings as well, both of which Dolby HATES. Atmos just doesn't seem suited for the home when they're as strict as they are about layouts. The high mounted side surrounds sound fantastic in 5.1/7.1, particularly since they're in line with the middle of the screen and with dialog lift, that makes all the sounds travel in a straight line back from the middle. Adding lower speakers would allow top to top and bottom to bottom and combined for mid-to-mid, covering every possible position in the room if stereo panning between surrounds is used correctly. But if they expect ceiling speakers to be in the "middle" of the room, that might cause some weird or at least "wide" panning effects.

DTS claims they can do either layout and frankly, that makes me suspect that either speaker layout is going to sound OKAY regardless. Given the basic Atmos layout still expects a 7.1 layout (even if the side height recommendations have changed and despite the fact that most theaters have NOT changed their height AT ALL by comparison in this regard from what I've seen), how bad could the overhead effects be if mounted side high instead of "middle ceiling" ? Why wouldn't a simple delay calculation compensate for the positional difference most of the time? With something like Yamaha DSP, you'd think it would be even less of an issue (they claim they can simulate both rear surrounds and rear presence speakers; can they simulate side or ceiling height speakers too or correct for positional changes? I doubt it. They would be too useful at home. It's far better to have junky "cathedral" or "night club" DSP sound effects that no one uses instead of something useful.

Does anyone else besides Yamaha have a dialog lift effect? I have a 92" projection screen with 3 identical speakers under the screen which will shortly be changed to PSB T45s (all three) and will have two more along side the the screen 2/3 up (same drivers in B15 as T45 and S50) for presence/height. Dialog lift would be great here as it would put the dialog coming from the screen instead of under it.

My current S50 sides also have the same drivers (bipole side wall units just behind the couch) and two more B15s in the back when I'm done. For lower/bed side surrounds, I'm thinking about the Imagine S since I can't find any more S50s these days. Matching speakers makes way more sense with the room layout and making sure someone doesn't "bump into" a speaker on stand since that location is between seating rows with rear surrounds behind the second/last row.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
It WAS that low. that deal is dead. Let's hope there will be another one.
It seems to keep popping up at that approx. every 2 1/2 - 3 weeks, but only lasts a couple days. I finally bit this last round, but keep an eye open as it seems like it should come around again...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Some help needed on the 1070 model:

I just installed last week two Front Presence speakers, so I could run now a 5.1.2 config.

As sources I have available ATV4k (iOSTV 12 beta 2, Plex, Netflix, HBO, etc), FireTV 4k (Plex, Netflix), PS4 (Bluray), all movies of course with DD, DD+, DTS, etc...

At least with the PS4 - Bluray (output set to LPCM) I should be able to see at least DTS or DTS-MA or DD on the display of the 1070, correct (of course the bluray audio is set accordingly)? But I dont.

It doesnt matter which source I choose, all I get is either Straight/PCM or DD Sur (depending on Audio Decoder). I can see anything like DTS, DTS-MA, DD+, etc.

What am I doing wrong here? I would assume setting the receiver to Straight, it should display with the Bluray from the PS4 accordingly DD+, DTS-MA, etc?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
678 Posts
If you choose LPCM on your source you are sending decoded signal and that't not what you want.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
87,920 Posts
Some help needed on the 1070 model:

I just installed last week two Front Presence speakers, so I could run now a 5.1.2 config.

As sources I have available ATV4k (iOSTV 12 beta 2, Plex, Netflix, HBO, etc), FireTV 4k (Plex, Netflix), PS4 (Bluray), all movies of course with DD, DD+, DTS, etc...

At least with the PS4 - Bluray (output set to LPCM) I should be able to see at least DTS or DTS-MA or DD on the display of the 1070, correct (of course the bluray audio is set accordingly)? But I dont.

It doesnt matter which source I choose, all I get is either Straight/PCM or DD Sur (depending on Audio Decoder). I can see anything like DTS, DTS-MA, DD+, etc.

What am I doing wrong here? I would assume setting the receiver to Straight, it should display with the Bluray from the PS4 accordingly DD+, DTS-MA, etc?
You have a choice of either ......

(a) Letting the source decode the DD/DTS audio to PCM (as you are currently doing with the PS4, although doing so will not allow the AVR to play the Atmos audio which is why you need to set the PS4 to "bitstream.") in which case all the AVR will see is "Multi CH PCM."

or

(b) Setting the source to "bitstream" w/Secondary Audio/Mix = OFF and letting the source pass the DD/DTS audio to the AVR to do the decoding to PCM in which case the AVR will display DD/DTS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Well I have been using the 2070 now since Saturday and have just removed it from my setup and replaced it with the Marantz 7012. No matter what I did I couldn't get it to sound as good or as immersive as the Marantz 7012 or my previous receiver the Pioneer SC-LX56. I ran the YPAO setup twice and also went in and manually tweaked settings but it still didn't give me good results.

What I was experiencing was a very small and front based sound stage. It was like I had a wall of sound in front of me coming from my TV and not around me. Bass was also no where near as good and very toned down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jj-34

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Where might you be seeing this? I'd be real surprised if it's from an authorized dealer or not refurbished.

PS -- B&H has a couple used ones, they're still more $$$ than that.

I saw it on techbargains. Adorama with coupon code. I think the deal has expired - but like others said - it seems to keep popping up every other week or so lately. I didn't jump on it yet...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
678 Posts
Well I have been using the 2070 now since Saturday and have just removed it from my setup and replaced it with the Marantz 7012. No matter what I did I couldn't get it to sound as good or as immersive as the Marantz 7012 or my previous receiver the Pioneer SC-LX56. I ran the YPAO setup twice and also went in and manually tweaked settings but it still didn't give me good results.

What I was experiencing was a very small and front based sound stage. It was like I had a wall of sound in front of me coming from my TV and not around me. Bass was also no where near as good and very toned down.
Since you are posting on both forums... :)


If your speakers are all set to small (and they have to be for those Apex speakers) - bass comes only from subwoofer, so the bass can be toned down only if subwoofer is not properly set / integrated.

What are your settings?
What crossover are you using?
What is the subwoofer level (on AVR and on SVS)?
Have you measured your system response (REW, XTZ Room Analyzer or something similar)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Since you are posting on both forums... :)


If your speakers are all set to small (and they have to be for those Apex speakers) - bass comes only from subwoofer, so the bass can be toned down only if subwoofer is not properly set / integrated.

What are your settings?
What crossover are you using?
What is the subwoofer level (on AVR and on SVS)?
Have you measured your system response (REW, XTZ Room Analyzer or something similar)?



Haha yeah I posted on both as I wanted to be 100% sure I have done everything possible before returning this receiver.



Everything is set to small, crossover is at 90Hz. Sub is at 50%. I added +3db to the sub and I have enabled YPAO Volume and also toggled with Adaptive DRC. I have tried a few DSP modes namely Straight which was the main DSP I used but I also tried others like Sci-fi and adventure as I read a review which said these might help enlarge the sound stage.



I have used a SPL meter for my phone to go in and manually check the levels with the test tones and they seemed ok, although the sub wasn't registering much at all even if I turned it up, not sure what was going on there. However when I ran the YPAO set-up the sub was fine and noticeable.



As a last attempt once I had tried everything I went and turned the sub up a few clicks from its 50% setting and upped the rears which helped a bit but then the bass got a bit bloated and wasn't as controlled, as powerful or sounded as good as it was on the 7012.



No matter what I tried the sound stage remained small and front based and didnt envelope me and the bass was lacking. :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
678 Posts
:)

So, let's continue on both places - maybe someone else here will find it interesting :)



Obviously subwoofer is not set as it should be with Yamaha.

For the begining, you don't need any DSP effect, YPAO Volume and similar stuff - it must sound ok with stereo for the start. That confirms that blending with front speakers is done right.

Apparently, Yamaha's YPAO is not so good in equilizing subwoofer as Audyssey, so you have to measure it with REW and adjust it manually. Maybe you have somewhat "problematic" room in which YPAO is struggling to find optimal values.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
517 Posts
Hi guys since i will be installing the 2070 to a samsung 75q8fn.. I heard sometimes you may run into arc issues..I had a installer say that what they do since its a known issue on the tv return arc having issues with hdmi if i use the tv streaming options ect that its always safe to run a optical from tv to avr in case the hmi return channel gives issues with the tv sending down sound.. he says theirs less issues when sound and video is going up from avr to tv that there is from it going down from tv to avr?? My concern is everyone seems to have some type of issues with arc video or sound.. Should i be concerned ..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
87,920 Posts
Hi guys since i will be installing the 2070 to a samsung 75q8fn.. I heard sometimes you may run into arc issues..I had a installer say that what they do since its a known issue on the tv return arc having issues with hdmi if i use the tv streaming options ect that its always safe to run a optical from tv to avr in case the hmi return channel gives issues with the tv sending down sound.. he says theirs less issues when sound and video is going up from avr to tv that there is from it going down from tv to avr?? My concern is everyone seems to have some type of issues with arc video or sound.. Should i be concerned ..
ARC issues are quite common as you yourself pointed out having read. As the installer indicated, give it a try. If it fails, then you have the optical work around.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
517 Posts
true.. thats why some people connect straight to tv unless its a atmos device for less headaches.. some 4k players have 2 hdmi one for video and the other for audio..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
I posted this on the Oppo 205 thread but figured it probably belongs here...

I recently upgraded my 205 to the latest firmware and also upgraded the USB DAC firmware per the instructions on Oppo's product support webpage. I connected my Macbook Pro to the USB DAC input and appear to be successfully streaming Tidal masters however, I'm unable to see any video when I hit the info button on the Oppo remote. I have an HDMI connection to my Yamaha 3070 for watching blu rays and listening to multi-channel audio but also utilize the XLR outs when listening to 2 channel stereo.

I understand that some AVRs have an option to allow video to be sent via HDMI when utilizing analog inputs but for the life of me I can't find the feature on my Yamaha. Does anyone here know if this option is available on Yamaha AVRs and I'm just missing it in the manual? Thanks!
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
26,619 Posts
3501 - 3520 of 5361 Posts
Top