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It allows you to turn down the sub level in the AVR, (negative zone is preferred) and you don't need as much gain on the sub amp for the same output SPL
At reference volume levels you'll have more headroom and less chance of clipping the signal.

So Better? Yes, most definitely!

Oh. Definitely going to look into getting one then! What brand would you recommend? A Monoprice version, or pretty much any Y Splitter would work?

Also, it’s as simple as it looks, right? You put the subwoofer cable into the Y Splitter and then the Y Splitter into the L and R of the subwoofer?
 

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Oh. Definitely going to look into getting one then! What brand would you recommend? A Monoprice version, or pretty much any Y Splitter would work?

Also, it’s as simple as it looks, right? You put the subwoofer cable into the Y Splitter and then the Y Splitter into the L and R of the subwoofer?
Monoprice for sure!

It may not work with every make/model of subwoofer,
the good part is its cheap enough to risk finding out for yourself.
I gained +6dB when measure before/after with an SPL meter on every sub I've owned.

Yamaha's get a lot of flack over their lack luster Bass performance,
I suspect it's due to the low line voltage on their pre-outs. So this is cheap fix for many.

To get around YPAO's piss poor Bass EQ requires REW, a UMIK-1 and some PEQ adjustments
YPAO is limited to >31.3Hz frequencies, and only offers 4 Bands of EQ
... if correction is needed below 31.3Hz...a miniDSP 2x4HD can go down to 10Hz and offer 10 Bands of EQ for $200

The miniDSP 2x4HD is the single Best/Cheapest way to EQ for up to 4 Sub Outs.
...and it also opens a World of Wuppass with BassEQ for movies that have been neutered and filtered (link in my Sig)
 

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Monoprice for sure!

It may not work with every make/model of subwoofer,
the good part is its cheap enough to risk finding out for yourself.
I gained +6dB when measure before/after with an SPL meter on every sub I've owned.

Yamaha's get a lot of flack over their lack luster Bass performance,
I suspect it's due to the low line voltage on their pre-outs. So this is cheap fix for many.

To get around YPAO's piss poor Bass EQ requires REW, a UMIK-1 and some PEQ adjustments
YPAO is limited to >31.3Hz frequencies, and only offers 4 Bands of EQ
... if correction is needed below 31.3Hz...a miniDSP 2x4HD can go down to 10Hz and offer 10 Bands of EQ for $200

The miniDSP 2x4HD is the single Best/Cheapest way to EQ for up to 4 Sub Outs.
...and it also opens a World of Wuppass with BassEQ for movies that have been neutered and filtered (link in my Sig)
Hi everyone

Have been reading this post with much interest, particularly the comments about the lack of base.

I have had the 3070 for just over a year running with 2 x 12 inch SVS subs. The sub level out is is about +2, and the sub volume is set at about one third the dial volume. I have to say that the base output is awesome, never in any way anemic.

I am aware that a negative sub out is preferred, but I get such good base, I wonder if it's worth changing my setup to reflect the generally accepted view. This is my second Yamaha receiver, and base output has never been an issue on either receiver.

Is it worth re-calibrating, and maybe getting an RCA Y-splitter as well? I find it hard to believe that my base could be significantly improved.

Really sitting on the fence for this one.

Cheers
 

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Hi everyone

Have been reading this post with much interest, particularly the comments about the lack of base.

I have had the 3070 for just over a year running with 2 x 12 inch SVS subs. The sub level out is is about +2, and the sub volume is set at about one third the dial volume. I have to say that the base output is awesome, never in any way anemic.

I am aware that a negative sub out is preferred, but I get such good base, I wonder if it's worth changing my setup to reflect the generally accepted view. This is my second Yamaha receiver, and base output has never been an issue on either receiver.

Is it worth re-calibrating, and maybe getting an RCA Y-splitter as well? I find it hard to believe that my base could be significantly improved.

Really sitting on the fence for this one.

Cheers
If you are happy with it and it appears that you are, leave it alone and enjoy. Nothing wrong with the channel level set at +2
 

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I use only one rca input on my Rythmik because they mentioned that the limiter might not work as well if you use a y-adapter to double the input gain/voltage.

In case, I have tried it many times before and it doesn't make the bass stronger, just a bit different sounding.

And getting +6dB input gain, does not give any more max output.
 

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Going to try this again with correct url.

Have an A2070 and need placement recommendations for heights for Atmos and DTS:X. Details of room and pics are on my chat thread here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-theory-setup-chat/2998236-placement-recommendations-needed-5-1-2-maybe-5-1-4-a.html
Try in the Speakers section of the forum as well.

Hi everyone

Have been reading this post with much interest, particularly the comments about the lack of base.

I have had the 3070 for just over a year running with 2 x 12 inch SVS subs. The sub level out is is about +2, and the sub volume is set at about one third the dial volume. I have to say that the base output is awesome, never in any way anemic.

I am aware that a negative sub out is preferred, but I get such good base, I wonder if it's worth changing my setup to reflect the generally accepted view. This is my second Yamaha receiver, and base output has never been an issue on either receiver.

Is it worth re-calibrating, and maybe getting an RCA Y-splitter as well? I find it hard to believe that my base could be significantly improved.

Really sitting on the fence for this one.

Cheers
It ain't broke, don't fix it. I find that setting the sub gain (AVR) to the negative causes a delay on the "auto on" of my HSU subwoofer. I feel that +2/-2 on either side of 0 is probably fine if it tests and sounds good to you.

Anyone know where in Ontario, Canada, can I get a smokin' deal on a brand new Yamaha RX-A3070? I understand it is discontinued but I am more leaning towards this model than the 3080. I got into the market just as the 3070 was discontinued. Also - What is the difference between 2070 and 3070? 2070 is being offered new at $1299, but most places I know have 3070 at $2699, except one place with $2050 for 3070 (new).
FYI. Price discussions are restricted to the Deals thread(s).[1] ;)
 

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When I run my subs at reference levels (115dB for 15Hz-10Hz ULF frequencies) the amp clips if the sub level in my AVR is on the + side.
Doubling the line voltage allows me to keep my subs gain at the upper end where they shine, and keeping the AVR sub levels in the - zone with no clipping and more headroom.

If you prefer less than reference audio levels for your LFE/ULF,
you would likely never have a headroom issue or notice the difference it makes being in the negative zone.

For the Best Sub performance out of your system,
I strongly suggest anyone interested read this thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2958528-guide-subwoofer-calibration-bass-preferences.html

in particular, this section related to Gain Settings and Maximum Sub Output:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2958528-guide-subwoofer-calibration-bass-preferences.html#IIE

II-E: Gain Settings And Maximum Sub Output

There is another aspect to the gain/trim issue that is worth mentioning. Depending on how the DSP in a given subwoofer is implemented, the subwoofer may only be able to achieve max output levels with the gain control set very high. Some subwoofers are only able to achieve maximum output levels when the gain control is set to, or very near, the highest setting. So setting a lower gain control, and a correspondingly higher AVR trim control, might not result in the same amount of peak bass SPL, irrespective of issues of clipping.

Apparently, this issue may be more common in subwoofers with digital (rather than analogue) controls. But, according to several examples I have observed from various threads, the issue is not at all limited to subwoofers with digital controls. Some subwoofers with analogue controls may have the same issue of not being able to achieve higher max output levels with low gain settings.

How important this max output issue actually is probably depends on the situation. For instance, I believe that a relatively lower gain setting might cause a ported subwoofer to chuff prematurely. Again, depending on the situation, even someone who is listening at a fairly moderate listening level, let's say -15 or -20 MV, might experience issues if he were using a significant subwoofer boost, either independently or on top of DEQ.

Putting a sudden peak demand on the subwoofer, with the right low-frequency content, might not enable the subwoofer to access the full output that it is designed to produce, if the gain level isn't fairly high. In that case, the subwoofer just wouldn't play the low-frequency content at the volume it was supposed to. In other words, it would simply stop getting any louder during that peak content. Whether we would even notice that, or whether we would hear the subwoofer make any audible sounds of distress, are separate questions.

But, unless we are sure that our subwoofers can achieve max volume levels with low gain settings, it is probably a good precaution to keep gain levels fairly high. Typically, that will mean using corresponding lower AVR trim levels for our subwoofers. This is not an issue that I have often heard addressed by subwoofer makers, but I suspect that many would intuitively know that some subs produce max volumes only with high gain levels.

This is just speculation on my part, but I think one reason that this issue isn't discussed more is because sub makers are not typically testing their subs as part of a calibrated HT system. So, they aren't dealing with gain/trim relationships at all in their design and testing process. When they want to push one of their subwoofers to its limits, or they want to measure its maximum output, they just max out the gain control on the subwoofer itself. It is only when subwoofers are calibrated as part of an HT or audio system, with an inverse relationship between gain and trim, that this becomes an issue. But, I believe that it can be an issue, and I believe that is another potential reason for attempting to keep gain settings fairly high.

CEA 2010 testing, performed by Data-Bass, always measures max output with gain controls at the maximum setting. And, as noted, some subwoofers may not be able to produce those same max SPL numbers, that we see on Data-Bass or from other professional sources, with lower gain settings. This won't be true for all subwoofers, but as a matter of best practice, I believe that it may be generally advisable to keep gain settings fairly high, and AVR trim settings fairly low, in order to maximize available headroom. An exception to this general policy could be a situation where a lower trim setting didn't successfully power a subwoofer on, when it was set to Auto On mode. But, that would be extremely unusual with Denon/Marantz, or Onkyo, receivers and processors.


[People with Yamaha AVR's are apparently much more likely to experience issues with subwoofers not turning on automatically unless AVR sub trim levels are relatively high--perhaps even fairly close to 0.0. That is due to the lower voltage signal sent from some Yamaha AVR's to the subwoofer. Newer high-end Yamaha AVR's are reported to have addressed the problem.

If subwoofers will not turn on automatically in Auto mode, without higher AVR trim levels, then the higher trim levels may be slightly less likely to lead to clipping issues, since the voltage from the AVR was lower to start with. Some Yamaha owners use a Y-connector into both subwoofer inputs in order to double the voltage going to the sub. And, that typically resolves the Auto On issue. Of course, Yamaha owners can also choose to just leave their subs on all the time, if the Auto On issue proves to be a real problem. That will consume slightly more energy, but will not affect the operation or longevity of the subwoofer.

AVS member @Basshead recently mentioned a clever solution for achieving more headroom, with higher gains and lower trim levels, which seems to circumvent the Auto On problem with Yamaha AVR's. He went from a -1.5 subwoofer trim level to a -4.5 trim level, with a comparable gain boost, and obtained 3db more headroom, prior to clipping. But, his subwoofer didn't power-on reliably when watching TV at very low master volume levels. So, he lowered the trim levels on all of his other channels by -3db, and raised his MV level by +3db, and is now able to have his sub power-on reliably for low-volume TV content, while still having more headroom available for louder movie viewing. This is an additional technique that Yamaha owners might wish to try.]
For those that are happy with what you have, leave it alone,
ignorance is bliss for those that are happy with the results YPAO gave you.

I'm not telling anyone what to do,
I'm giving options to those who are NOT happy and asking for solutions.


:nerd:
 

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I bought a Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070 and tried to use my RX-A3050 for my Front and Rear Presence Speakers. Before I bought the RX-A3070, my RX-A3050 was my main AVR, using my RX-A3010 for my External Amplifier which worked great. When I tried using the RX-A3050 for my External Amplifier, I found out that the RX-A3050 would not function as an External Amplifier. The culprit to all these problems is that the RX-A3010 was the last RX-A30X0 that had the Multi-channel Input. My theater sounds great with the RX-A3070 as the core AVR with the RX-A3010 as the External Amplifier, but now my RX-A3050 stands alone in our den. I do have the RX-V663 that I used in our previous home's den with the RX-A3010 for a small theater with a 40" 1080p TV. It all sounded great until we moved. Can the RX-V663 be used as an External Amplifier to my RX-3050? A long lead in, but I need help making this decision. Thanks to all of you that help all of us that are still learning.
 

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I bought a Yamaha Aventage RX-A3070 and tried to use my RX-A3050 for my Front and Rear Presence Speakers. Before I bought the RX-A3070, my RX-A3050 was my main AVR, using my RX-A3010 for my External Amplifier which worked great. When I tried using the RX-A3050 for my External Amplifier, I found out that the RX-A3050 would not function as an External Amplifier. The culprit to all these problems is that the RX-A3010 was the last RX-A30X0 that had the Multi-channel Input. My theater sounds great with the RX-A3070 as the core AVR with the RX-A3010 as the External Amplifier, but now my RX-A3050 stands alone in our den. I do have the RX-V663 that I used in our previous home's den with the RX-A3010 for a small theater with a 40" 1080p TV. It all sounded great until we moved. Can the RX-V663 be used as an External Amplifier to my RX-3050? A long lead in, but I need help making this decision. Thanks to all of you that help all of us that are still learning.
The 2014 model RX-A3040 was the last year for Multi-Channel inputs in the Aventage line.

A quick google search for images of the rear panel for the RX-V663 (2009 model) revealed that it also includes Multi-Channel inputs... (top center)



So yes, it will work for driving your Front and Rear presence speakers.
 

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RX-A1070 need 7.1.2 Atmos setup Help

I can use some help with Yamaha RX-A1070 and setting up a 7.1.2 Atmos configurations in Main ?
I run through all the automatic mic setup and it linds all the correct speakers and displays all of them on the front of the receiver but as soon as I save it I Constantly loose the back speakers ?
It chooses Basic in the amp configuration- all the others loose the Front presents speakears
I just can't figure out how or what I need to do so that all the speakers work .
I know the amp is capable of it because it was set up at the place I bought it and it showed all the speakers Ft presence And back
But on mine I only get
Front, Center, left ,right, surround left, surround right, subwoofer, Front presence Left, Front presents right and it's missing the
Two back speakers ? Very frustrating!
Can anyone give me a step by step as I'm new to this receiver .
I appreciate it thank you.
Steve
 

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I can use some help with Yamaha RX-A1070 and setting up a 7.1.2 Atmos configurations in Main ?
I run through all the automatic mic setup and it linds all the correct speakers and displays all of them on the front of the receiver but as soon as I save it I Constantly loose the back speakers ?
It chooses Basic in the amp configuration- all the others loose the Front presents speakears
I just can't figure out how or what I need to do so that all the speakers work .
I know the amp is capable of it because it was set up at the place I bought it and it showed all the speakers Ft presence And back
But on mine I only get
Front, Center, left ,right, surround left, surround right, subwoofer, Front presence Left, Front presents right and it's missing the
Two back speakers ? Very frustrating!
Can anyone give me a step by step as I'm new to this receiver .
I appreciate it thank you.
Steve
The Yamaha RX-A1070 is onlly a 7 Channel AVR.
You can set it up as 7.1 or 5.1.2 (Cannot have 7.1.2 because 7+2 = 9)

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a1070_u/index.html





You need the next model up, a 9 channel RX-A2070
if you want Back Surround AND 2 Presence speakers active at the same time.
the RX-A2070 can do: 7.1, 5.1.2, 7.1.2 or 5.1.4.

The next model up from that, the RX-A3070 has 9 internal amps as well,
But also has 11 channel processing, so with an additional external amp, can be expanded to 7.1.4

;)
 

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All this talk about using older receivers to power additional channel got me thinking. I'm considering either a 3070, 5100, or the new 5200. I already needed to reconfigure my surround setup and need a 2 channel amp at the back of my HT. I have an RX-Z1 just sitting that appears to have main amp pre-amp connections. Doubt I could get much on eBay for it anyway. And I'm currently using an RX-Z11 that has multi channel inputs in either 6 or 8 channel configuration. I could use that for 5-7 channels I think instead of buying a 7 channel amp, at least for now to keep the costs down. It would be for the surround backs and 4 presence/ceiling speakers only as I have 2 MX-D1's that I'll use for LCR duty.
 

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Ironically, older pre-HDMI receivers with 5.1 analog inputs are perfectly suited for driving the overhead speakers in an Atmos/DTS:X (and even Auro - if you have the rare processor that puts out the fifth "Voice of God" center of ceiling channel) setup.

When my basement theater is rebuilt (it was demolished to repair the house's main support beam and being rebuilt with a higher ceiling that will support ceiling speakers), I'll use my old Yamaha RX-V457 for that purpose, taking that load off my new 3070 so it can better drive the main seven channels. My RX-A1040 (which had displaced the 457 in the theater) will take the 457's place in my living room to accompany a new flat panel TV, with the 457 returning to duty in the theater to drive the ceiling speakers.

This is far better than trashing pre-HDMI AVRs that became "victims of progress" when HDMI became dominant. Used as straight amplifiers, they'll do fine, with the main AVR doing the decoding and room correction.
 

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Sounds right. My Z-11 has HDMI, but it's version 1.3a, so that has limited me to run my Oppo 103D's video output straight to my projectors since 1.3a doesn't work with 3D, not to mention none of the newer audio codecs or 4K.
 

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New AVR purchase question:

I have 3 receivers I'm confused about.

Yamaha A3070 70)
Yamaha A3080
Denon X6400H

I currently have 3070 and 6400 at home new in box, didn't want to lose out on stock and deal. I have until 25th to return.

Which in your opinion is a better option? This is in terms of build, quality, relaibility, and sound performance.

Speaker setup: Paradigm Prestige 95F L/R, 55C centre, and 15B surrounds / Atmos setups.
 

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New AVR purchase question:

I have 3 receivers I'm confused about.

Yamaha A3070
Yamaha A3080
Denon X6400H

I currently have 3070 and 6400 at home new in box, didn't want to lose out on stock and deal. I have until 25th to return.

Which in your opinion is a better option? This is in terms of build, quality, relaibility, and sound performance. …
You also posted in the “Yamaha 2018 RX-A” thread and jdsmoothie said you posted in a Denon thread.

Since you have the 3070 in hand, I would compare the product pages of the 3070 and 3080. IF there are no features in the 3080 that you NEED, don’t spend $300 more. That makes it a Denon vs. Yamaha question, and since you’ve bought both I would suggest you simply decide which factor is more important: economy, or features.

Mod: please disregard flag, poster now owns a 3070, so fair play IMHO.
 
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New AVR purchase question:

I have 3 receivers I'm confused about.

Yamaha A3070
Yamaha A3080
Denon X6400H

I currently have 3070 and 6400 at home new in box, didn't want to lose out on stock and deal. I have until 25th to return.

Which in your opinion is a better option? This is in terms of build, quality, relaibility, and sound performance.

Speaker setup: Paradigm Prestige 95F L/R, 55C centre, and 15B surrounds / Atmos setups.
In the future, please don't cross post.
 

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In the future, please don't cross post.


Hello, sorry mod for the cross post. I only did it between two brands I was debating on and wanted to get views of the Yamaha and Denon users. I listed all options I was considering because if I didn't, someone would complain saying "we can't really help you because we don't know what we are comparing against".

I'll watch out what I ask in future. I figured getting point of views and advice from folks that might have owned both brands, or even one, can guide well, considering they're all experienced in these things.


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You also posted in the “Yamaha 2018 RX-A” thread and jdsmoothie said you posted in a Denon thread.

Since you have the 3070 in hand, I would compare the product pages of the 3070 and 3080. IF there are no features in the 3080 that you NEED, don’t spend $300 more. That makes it a Denon vs. Yamaha question, and since you’ve bought both I would suggest you simply decide which factor is more important: economy, or features.

Mod: please disregard flag, poster now owns a 3070, so fair play IMHO.


Thank you ChromeJob, the reason I asked about 3070/3080 is because Yamaha owners who play with these or religiously change AVRs every 1-2-3 years may know and have better hands on / ears on -experience compared to me reading just online specs and manuals (which I've done but a lot of it doesn't make sense to a common user, as not all of us are as inclined to do much detail as many experts are here.) hence I chose to ask here, rather than sales persons in stores who are usually biased to certain brands and options. :)


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